Merged [Ed] Get involved detecting the ade 651 detector / Jim McCormick arrested

rjh01 said:
No you do not evacuate the building, you tell them to find the bomb first, then evacuate the building.
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I suggested the plan to see what kind of excuses Mr. Salesman would give if he really believed his life depended on the accuracy of the device. I grew up in a small town so getting 6-8 police offices to walk outside for a few minutes would not be all that inconvenient.


I still prefer the bear-trap test. You could even put gunpowder near the bear traps to make it even for the device to "detect" the danger.


ETA: After all, if a ballistic vest salesman showed up at a police station, it would not be unheard of to ask the salesman to wear the vest during a very-controlled demonstration. I see nothing wrong with the bear trap test. The salesman/con-artist is asking purchasers to put their lives on the line based on the results of this device; asking the salesman to put his legs on the line is not unfair.
 
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Ladewig said:
I suggested the plan to see what kind of excuses Mr. Salesman would give if he really believed his life depended on the accuracy of the device. I grew up in a small town so getting 6-8 police offices to walk outside for a few minutes would not be all that inconvenient.


I still prefer the bear-trap test. You could even put gunpowder near the bear traps to make it even for the device to "detect" the danger.


ETA: After all, if a ballistic vest salesman showed up at a police station, it would not be unheard of to ask the salesman to wear the vest during a very-controlled demonstration. I see nothing wrong with the bear trap test. The salesman/con-artist is asking purchasers to put their lives on the line based on the results of this device; asking the salesman to put his legs on the line is not unfair.
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The problem is that they abolished the death penalty (in most civilised places) a long time ago. So killing Mr Salesman for selling devices that do not work is not a good idea. Setting up a fair test or prosecuting him is a far better idea.
 
rjh01 said:
The problem is that they abolished the death penalty (in most civilised places) a long time ago. So killing Mr Salesman for selling devices that do not work is not a good idea. Setting up a fair test or prosecuting him is a far better idea.
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I have no intention of killing Mr. Salesman (that would be the anti-personnel minefield option). The gunpowder in my scenario was not an explosive charge, it was just a bag of gunpowder buried near the bear trap to help the con artists "detect" a dangerous substance (as that is the basic claim: this device can detect any dangerous substance).

I'd set up the described test just to hear what kind of excuses the con artists would make. They know it doesn't work and they would not put themselves in such a situation. On the other hand, if the con artists think my test was a bluff and actually agreed to it (believing that no one would expose the sellers to actual danger) then I say go ahead with it and actually place small bear traps in a field and let them "Quadro-track" their way out.

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OK, here is a compromise: replace the bear traps with buried paintball guns - each with a different color. Explain that each color represents a different country in which these devices were sold. If the con artist is hit with a specific color, then he is immediately extradited to that country to face whatever punishment that country believes is appropriate.
 
McCormick Alleged Fraud Trial Commences

I can confirm that the trial of James McCormick on alleged fraud charges commenced yesterday, and previous reporting restrictions have been partially lifted.

Press coverage has already started e.g.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/mar/07/businessman-bomb-detection-kits-golf


I will keep you informed of anything of interest, but of course if you are so motivated you can keep an eye on the press/TV/interweb.

PLEASE BE VERY CAREFUL WITH ANY COMMENTS YOU MAKE!!!!! WE DO NOT WANT TO PREJUDICE THE CASE IN ANY WAY. FEEL FREE TO PM ME IF YOU HAVE ANY DOUBTS ON THIS
 
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There's just been a report on BBC Radio5 about the trial

Key points

- Cost £22 to make sold for up to $40k
- Didn't work
- Outlandish claims of usefulness
- Thousands sold, mostly in Iraq
 
Dubious Dick said:
PLEASE BE VERY CAREFUL WITH ANY COMMENTS YOU MAKE! WE DO NOT WANT TO PREJUDICE THE CASE IN ANY WAY. FEEL FREE TO PM ME IF YOU HAVE ANY DOUBTS ON THIS
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I am not trying to pick a fight or anything, but I am curious. If there were prejudicial comments on this site and the defense team cited JREF and other sites are prejudicing the case, what exactly would happen? In the U.S. there would be a change of venue as the courts looked for a locale that had not been so exposed to the prejudicial comments - and then the trial would proceed.

Lastly, an unprejudiced comment: My curiosity is beyond piqued. I cannot wait to see what happens next.


ETA: one more question. After a verdict is reached in a U.S. court, what appears in newspapers and public fora is irrelevant to the appeals process. Is that the case in your country?
 
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Ladewig said:
I am not trying to pick a fight or anything, but I am curious. If there were prejudicial comments on this site and the defense team cited JREF and other sites are prejudicing the case, what exactly would happen? In the U.S. there would be a change of venue as the courts looked for a locale that had not been so exposed to the prejudicial comments - and then the trial would proceed.

Lastly, an unprejudiced comment: My curiosity is beyond piqued. I cannot wait to see what happens next.


ETA: one more question. After a verdict is reached in a U.S. court, what appears in newspapers and public fora is irrelevant to the appeals process. Is that the case in your country?
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1. If the defence could show that there was current prejudicial coverage the case could come to an end on the basis of a fair trial not being possible. It would generally apply to national press coverage that may be accessible to the Jury. IANAL but do not think there would be scope to move the trial anywhere 'safe' for the defendant.

2. You are not the only one whose curiosity is piqued! Having spent over 4 years working on this since Randi issued his challenge to the ADE651, Techowiz and I, along with many others who have been involved are on the edge of our seats.

3. Interesting point re possible appeal. I think the same would apply as in the U.S. but I am going to ask around. Appeals would go before Judges, not a Jury, hence why I think the same principle applies.

4. There are more trials of others to follow, so there are issues over the reporting during this trial of not prejudicing those to follow. The restrictions will apply until that series of trials is over too.

It may be best to simply report what comes out in the press for now, and make no further comments on what is happening over and above those reports.
 
Dubious Dick said:
It may be best to simply report what comes out in the press for now, and make no further comments on what is happening over and above those reports.
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I am prepared to follow your advice, but I will state that it will require discipline for this particular case.
 
Latest media report on the trial of James McCormick on charges of fraud.

'No scientific validity' in bomb detector fraud trial

Of course, you could have knocked me down with a feather!

On advice I am sticking to simply passing on such reports. If you have not been keeping up with this story recently, or are new to it, please refrain from passing any comment so as not to risk prejudicing the trial:


http://ade651gt200scamfraud.blogspot.co.uk/
 
As an ex-soldier in the British Army who used these devices (or similar) in tours of Northern Ireland, I am interested in the court case. I'm grateful for the updates on this forum.
 
Reno said:
As an ex-soldier in the British Army who used these devices (or similar) in tours of Northern Ireland, I am interested in the court case. I'm grateful for the updates on this forum.
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Hi Reno,

Most interesting! have PM'ed you.

best, DD
 
Sharon Hill already linked to a new report from the Guardian on Doubtful News, but a little birdie also told me a few more details about the trial and you are welcome to peruse both the Guardian piece and the report from the little birdie here:


http://ade651gt200scamfraud.blogspot.co.uk/

See latest post, McCormick Takes The Stand.
 
Dubious Dick said:
Sharon Hill already linked to a new report from the Guardian on Doubtful News, but a little birdie also told me a few more details about the trial and you are welcome to peruse both the Guardian piece and the report from the little birdie here:


http://ade651gt200scamfraud.blogspot.co.uk/

See latest post, McCormick Takes The Stand.
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I Am glad I took my blood pressure medication today.
 
Result! The BBC link has been updated to show that Newsnight will be doing a full report on this tonight at 10:30pm.

I couldn't see reference to sentencing in the above reports. Presumably that will be done at some future date as usual in English law?
 
ohms said:
Result! The BBC link has been updated to show that Newsnight will be doing a full report on this tonight at 10:30pm.

I couldn't see reference to sentencing in the above reports. Presumably that will be done at some future date as usual in English law?
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Page updated yet again to say he will be be sentenced 2nd May.
 
"golfball finding device"?

How many golfers were killed by uncovering explosives when they tried to use this device to locate lost balls? :eek:
 
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