Merged [Ed] Get involved detecting the ade 651 detector / Jim McCormick arrested

Mudcat said:
Forgive me for what's bound to be a silly question, but by what process are dousing rods supposed to work? I know that they don't actually work, but I fail to see how what appear to be two simple sticks of what is apparently unremarkable metal is supposed to enable one to find water or anything else for that mater.
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In this case, they claim the freely swinging metal rod, which seems to be made from a radio antenna, points to the materials due to substances being para- or dia- magnetic. As far as I understand it, most molecules will either weakly be attracted or repelled by a strong magnetic field, but the effect is generally too small to notice. In this case, with the distances involved, no power source in the GT200, and it emitting no measurable electromagnetic field, the chance the antenna is moving because of the magnetic field of gunpowder several meters away is essentially zero.

Other dowsers have claimed things like nuclear resonance or quantum fields.

Randi has written well about how people who experience dowsing feel a compelling NEED to have it be true after they witness the rod "work" in their own hands. For example, as Ladewig said, a salesman could ask some policemen to hide ammunition in a room. Either while watching them hide it, or not watching but guessing obvious hiding places, he shows it works. Then the salesman gives the rod to a police officer. The officer walks by the bullets holding the dowsing rod, and because of the ideomotor effect, he unconsciously tilts his hands slightly because he is thinking about where the ammunition is hidden. The officer knows he did not intentionally point the rod, so will often accept the salesman's contention that the rod pointed that way because it detected the gunpowder. It seems if you get someone to trick themselves with an illusion, it is very hard to convince them later that it was only an illusion because they know they weren't trying to trick themselves.

Since dowsing rods seem to work, whether sticks, bent wires, or $20,000 empty plastic boxes like the GT200, people then try to rationalize after the fact why it worked - magnets, electrons, waves, energy fields, like attracting like, magic, or "it just works." All of the explanations I have seen from believers are just scientific sounding gobbledygook, not coherent or plausible theories.
 
Thanks for the reply, Biff. It sounds too obvious and stupid to me.

To be entirely blunt, it's hard to believe that anyone would take such nonsense seriously.
 
Stomatopoda said:
It's not really that hard to believe, considering how many people take homeopathy seriously.
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That's it!!! I was going about it all wrong. The device is not weak because it has no electronics or power source, and it wasn't an empty plastic box like we thought. The GT200 is so powerful exactly because it is a box filled with homeopathic air! The more dilute the homeopathic solution is, the more effect it has. What looked like ordinary air was really super-dilute (super powerful) homeopathic air with a memory of explosive and drug molecules, which is how it is strong enough to be magnetically attracted to various items from up to several kilometers away!!

Bravo!! :D
 
Biff Starbuck said:
That's it!!! I was going about it all wrong. The device is not weak because it has no electronics or power source, and it wasn't an empty plastic box like we thought. The GT200 is so powerful exactly because it is a box filled with homeopathic air! The more dilute the homeopathic solution is, the more effect it has. What looked like ordinary air was really super-dilute (super powerful) homeopathic air with a memory of explosive and drug molecules, which is how it is strong enough to be magnetically attracted to various items from up to several kilometers away!!

Bravo!! :D
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You could manufacture these by buying some firecrackers and then taking drugs until setting off some flashbangs in the factory seems like a fun idea. Then have someone seal the lids on the plastic cases while the noise of the explosions die away. As the infinitessimal vibrations subside, the memory of the drug-inspired explosions in the air inside each box makes it stronger and stronger in homeopathic terms. Then it's just steps 3) ????? and 4) Profit all the way.
 
To clarify.

Trials of the principals behind the ADE651, GT200, ALPHA6 and XK-9 variants commence early March at the Old Bailey in London.

First up before the beak will be James McCormick who 'invented' the ADE651.

As poiinted out above, despite Randi first exposing this fraud in the guise of the Quadro Tracker back in 1995, and bringing other variants like the SNIFFEX and ADE651 to our attention, no one has ever been convicted of fraud in relation to these devices. The Quadro Tracker principals got off such charges in the U.S. using the defence that they genuinely believed it to work.

We are of course hoping for different results in the U.K. trials.

Anyone interested in the history of these devices in recet times is welcome to wade through the following which I put together as part of our campaign here in the U.K. to put an end to the trade.

I must confess that very little of the research was original as I hope is made clear. Just an aggregation of the information available froms sources such as Randi.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/51676711/History-Save-2

Anyone not familiar with this tale of woe and woo please note that great credit must go to Techowiz, without whom the U.K. prosecutions may well never have come to fruition.

P.S. We have been asked not to publish the report from Mexico on any U.K. blogs so as not to potentially prejudice the trials. It was forwarded to us some days ago by Andres Tonini in Mexico, who has fought a long battle to end the use of these devices there.
 
Biff Starbuck said:
For example, as Ladewig said, a salesman could ask some policemen to hide ammunition in a room. Either while watching them hide it, or not watching but guessing obvious hiding places, he shows it works.
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There are often surprisingly few places an unimaginative person can hide bullets in a conference room. In any case, if there are six policemen in the room who know the hiding place, then it doesn't take much practice to gain clues by watching their faces as one walks around the room.
 
Mudcat said:
Thanks for the reply, Biff. It sounds too obvious and stupid to me.

To be entirely blunt, it's hard to believe that anyone would take such nonsense seriously.
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And yet such devices were purchased by the FBI, several city police departments, a few state police agencies, and several militaries around the world - at prices between $500 and $20,000 per unit! Although it is possible that some of the $20,000 military purchases were made through bribes and kickbacks.

As the old joke says, "What's the difference between genius and stupidity?"

Or as Will Rogers once observed "there is nothing so stupid as an educated man once you get him off the thing he was educated in."


ETA: Feynman - "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. " Very few people understand how universal this aphorism is.
 
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Dubious Dick said:
no one has ever been convicted of fraud in relation to these devices. The Quadro Tracker principals got off such charges in the U.S. using the defence that they genuinely believed it to work.
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Bear traps.

We cannot use landmines, so we put these people in a field filled with buried bear traps and let them "Quadro Track" their way out.
 
Make that up to $65000 U.S.D. per unit in Iraq for the ADE651 making a total of $85 million, or a little bit more to go around!
 
Dubious Dick said:
Make that up to $65000 U.S.D. per unit in Iraq for the ADE651 making a total of $85 million, or a little bit more to go around!
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Is there any information on anyone who has been killed by an explosive while using one of these expensive dowsing rods to find explosives?
 
Reno said:
Is there any information on anyone who has been killed by an explosive while using one of these expensive dowsing rods to find explosives?
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BBC reports tallied at least 300 deaths in the Green Zone while they were the only 'detection' method in use by the Iraqis at checkpoints. We think this is an absolute minimum, notwithstanding injuries to add to the toll.

Believe that there have been deaths of users or security forces in vicinity of the devices being used in Thailand. Further details here:


http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.co.uk/

Along with reports of miscarriages of justice reported in Mexico, it all adds up
to a sorry history of tragedy due to fraud, corruption and stupidity.

These were the reasons why Techowiz, I and others fought so hard and so long to bring to attention of the UK and International authorities, and why we are hoping for the right results at the forthcoming trials. However, as oft repeated, had Randi not brought to our attention we may well not be where we are today.

Anyone from Germany reading this, we would be interested to know if there is any news regarding HEDD1 and Unival GmbH? The HEDD1 is the latest incarnation off SNIFFEX.
 
OK, how about this.

When they come to a police station to demonstrate it, interrupt the demonstration with an alarm and evacuate the building in the guise of a bomb threat. Then ask Mr. Salesman to go back into the building to find the ticking bomb.
 
Ladewig said:
OK, how about this.

When they come to a police station to demonstrate it, interrupt the demonstration with an alarm and evacuate the building in the guise of a bomb threat. Then ask Mr. Salesman to go back into the building to find the ticking bomb.
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No you do not evacuate the building, you tell them to find the bomb first, then evacuate the building.
 
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