Dr. MAS - Please use this thread to explain homeopathy to us

[anor277]

Originally posted by Rolfe

Originally posted by Non-Sense Homeopath
does it work in 6x, 12x or not?

Well, if we're actually going to address this, then no, as a blanket statement, I do not believe that "it works" at 6X or 12X or any other X come to that.

Why not?

Because the whole assumption that "like cures like" is a pack of nonsense based on a misunderstanding.

SNIP

"Like cures like" is an expression of a very ancient way of thinking called "sympathetic magic". It can be found running through the thinking and practice of almost all primitive peoples, and indeed it is so ingrained into the human psyche that even modern man finds himself thinking that way sometimes.

SNIP


However, at the very low potencies, that is under 24X and 12C, there are indeed some traces of the original mother tincture present. It would therefore be foolish to declare that it is entirely impossible that any such preparation could ever have any sort of physioogical effect. Especially right down at 6X, it's possible that certain individual preparations of particularly pharmacologically active substances might have an effect. For example, if you started with a highly concentrated mother tincture, I think you'd be very unwise to take a 6X preparation of potassium cyanide.

This is nevertheless not any sort of admission that "homeooapthy works" at these dilutions. Merely an observation that sometimes, with certain preparations, something might happen. Probably not that a disease would be cured though!

SNIP

DO YOU THEN AGREE THAT 30C PREPARATIONS DO NOT (AND CANNOT) WORK?

Rolfe.

__________________

What an excellent "straight" answer (which with your permission I would like to quote from please). Of course it would be amazing if the homeopathy proponents could be similarly concise and authoritative - that is if, as you say, they don't take it as an admission that homeopathy does work at molecular levels.

 

[-42-]

It takes just 5 days to become a qualified homeopath in the U.S.

http://www.affordabledegrees.com/specific/index.asp?dp=1086&ase=gl

Just 5 days and you're every bit as justified in calling yourself a homeopath in America as a Pakistani with eight years of "education".

Even at $199 I'd say it's still overpriced.

That's a fairly well known "paper degree" site.

You can also get bachelors in just about anything, masters, can even select what you want your GPA to be, etc. It also (despite what it says) does not need any 'real life experience' to coorespond to the degree.

Just saying.... just as easy on THAT SITE to get a degree in Computer Science (5 days, shipping time) as it is for Homeopathy so that particular example is a poor one. There isn't any "classes" or "training" or "books".

The point you were perhaps trying to make is there isn't an 'official certification' for Homeopathy? Though, I am sure there are 'real' (lol) classes somewhere...

 

[Ashles]

That's a fairly well known "paper degree" site.

Huh. I just tried to access that site.

I'm at work and the Websense filter blocking page appeared with the following message:

This was catagorised as : Illegal or Questionable

 

[M Sarwar]

It takes just 5 days to become a qualified homeopath in the U.S.

http://www.affordabledegrees.com/specific/index.asp?dp=1086&ase=gl

Inspite of this easy approach, there are only two thousand registered homeopath in USA. The reason is after they got free registeration and certification, they started practicing homeopathy. As they had no knowledge of physiology, biochemistry and anatomy etc. they failed to got reasonable response from homopathy and left it very soon. For getting result you need to pass four to five years of BHMS course in India. Three years of course in Malaysia. Four years of course in Pakistan. Two years to four years in UK.

 

[Jeff Corey]

That's a long time to spend learning absolutely nothing of value.

 

[Donks]

That's a long time to spend learning absolutely nothing of value.

I could make an ugly joke about some majors in the Liberal Arts area, but I'll restrain myself

 

[Odin]

Why has the board been invaded by homeopaths?

 

[Rolfe]

For getting result you need to pass four to five years of BHMS course in India. Three years of course in Malaysia. Four years of course in Pakistan. Two years to four years in UK.

In that case, with all that education, why can none of the Indian, Pakistani or Malaysian homoeopaths explain to us their understanding of how 30C homoeopathic remedies work? (Neither can the UK homoeopaths either, but that's a rather different conversation.)

Rolfe.

 

[flume]

Inspite of this easy approach, there are only two thousand registered homeopath in USA. The reason is after they got free registeration and certification, they started practicing homeopathy. As they had no knowledge of physiology, biochemistry and anatomy etc. they failed to got reasonable response from homopathy and left it very soon.

That is a reasonable conclusion, but the information about the 5-day certificate was probably misleading. In my state, there would be a requirement for much more basic medical science, plus at least 6 months of homeopathic training. There is a homeopathic licensing board.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Inspite of this easy approach, there are only two thousand registered homeopath in USA. The reason is after they got free registeration and certification, they started practicing homeopathy. As they had no knowledge of physiology, biochemistry and anatomy etc. they failed to got reasonable response from homopathy and left it very soon. For getting result you need to pass four to five years of BHMS course in India. Three years of course in Malaysia. Four years of course in Pakistan. Two years to four years in UK.

Can none of these, apparently several homeopaths, spell registration?

Yet another oddity.

 

[wahrheit]

Can none of these, apparently several homeopaths, spell registration?

You won this debate.

 

[Mojo]

You won this debate.

"Registeration: 144,000 results."

There are that many people who can't spell registration?

Gross.

 

[Donks]

Can none of these, apparently several homeopaths, spell registration?

Yet another oddity.

Hmmm. Mods might want to start checking for proxies in their hunf for sockpuppets.

 

[Psiload]

That is a reasonable conclusion, but the information about the 5-day certificate was probably misleading. In my state, there would be a requirement for much more basic medical science, plus at least 6 months of homeopathic training. There is a homeopathic licensing board.

What are the penalties for practicing homeopathy without being properly registered? It strikes me as ridiculous that "basic medical science" is required to practice homeopathy, when basic medical science tells us that homeopathy is unmitigated nonsense.

Has anyone (in the U.S.) ever been prosecuted for practicing homeopathy without proper credentials?

 

[Mojo]

Hmmm. Mods might want to start checking for proxies in their hunf for sockpuppets.

On the other hand, it's another of those little irregularities that must make English really tricky if it's not your first language...

 

[Perpetual Notion]

Homeopathy: Everybody's doing it! and some people are getting sued. Licensure appears to vary from state to state and in my state, chiropractors are the number one dispensors of homeopathic drugs.

From the site:

Three states have homeopathic licensing laws: Arizona (1982), Connecticut (1892), and Nevada (1983) -- MDs and DOs practicing homeopathy in AZ or NV, and MDs practicing in CT must be licensed by the state homeopathic licensing board.

There are many training programs and courses in homeopathy in both the U.S. and abroad; however, no diploma or certificate from any school or program is recognized as a license to practice homeopathy in the U.S. Certification of competency to practice homeopathy is available to MDs and DOs through the American Board of Homeotherapeutics (DHt); to NDs through the Homeopathic Academy of Naturopathic Physicians (DHANP); and to all professionals through the Council for Homeopathic Certification (CCH).

The best protection against legal action is in how practitioners represent themselves. They should not call themselves doctors (even with a Ph.D.) and should not purport to be able to cure any condition. Strengthening the vitality of the person is fine to say and many people will say they strengthen the immune system as this is a more marketable stance. But in general, medical terms should be avoided. All clients should be required to be under the care of a medical doctor or other primary care provider.

Unfortunately, not everyone can follow this advice:

Know your limits to what you can say when dealing with a possible fatal disease. In 1996, oncologist Vincent Speckhart, MD, was ordered to pay the widow of deceased patient Robert Rizzi $235,715. Rizzi's widow charged that Speckhart led her husband to believe that homeopathy was enough to cure him of his Hodgkins' disease after Rizzi refused further chemotherapy because of side effects. Mrs. Rizzi had asked for $2.3 million. Dr. Speckhart was on indefinite probation since 4/29/93 in Virginia for using a Voll machine without accepted therapeutic purpose.

In another cancer case, William Cowden, M.D. used homeopathic injectables in Texas and under agreement received two years probation in January of 1995 as long as he agreed to retraining.

 

[Donks]

On the other hand, it's another of those little irregularities that must make English really tricky if it's not your first language...

It's not my first language...

 

[Non-Sense Homeopath]

In that case, with all that education, why can none of the Indian, Pakistani or Malaysian homoeopaths explain to us their understanding of how 30C homoeopathic remedies work? (Neither can the UK homoeopaths either, but that's a rather different conversation.)

Rolfe.

Yes, they can explain its working in 30x but to those who knew how does it work in 6x. if somebody says, he does not know the working of 6x then he can join four years of DHMS course conducting by Dr. MAS, if he says, no it does not work in 6x then present your lecture and paper with supporting documents that it cannot work and win one million ruppees. So simple equation.

 

[Donks]

Yes, they can explain its working in 30x but to those who knew how does it work in 6x. if somebody says, he does not know the working of 6x then he can join four years of DHMS course conducting by Dr. MAS, if he says, no it does not work in 6x then present your lecture and paper with supporting documents that it cannot work and win one million ruppees. So simple equation.

So yes you can explain, but as long as we jump though hoops for 4 years. Huh. How about you just do a little demonstration of a 30C remedy working and win one million dollars? Simpler equation, no?

 

[Zep]

Yes, they can explain its working in 30x but to those who knew how does it work in 6x. if somebody says, he does not know the working of 6x then he can join four years of DHMS course conducting by Dr. MAS, if he says, no it does not work in 6x then present your lecture and paper with supporting documents that it cannot work and win one million ruppees. So simple equation.

Are you to frightened to tell us, Non-Sense? Are you scared we will tear your treasured nonsense apart like the wet tissue-paper it is?

This is just plain nonsense. What you are REALLY saying here is this: Homeopathy "works" at 6X. But we will take 4 years to explain how to anyone, and we certainly won't tell any skeptics. Therefore homeopathy works at 30X.

Yes, it's a simple equation. For cowardice, I'm starting to think.

Oh, and Dr MAS's "challenge" is just part of that joke, Non-Sense. He's so scared that he won't actually make it a valid challenge at all. He's got it all rigged to sort of maybe look a tiny bit like the JREF challenge if you view it from 2000 kms away with your back turned. But it's nothing of the sort. He's just too scared to make it a REAL, permanent, scientific challenge. Why? Because he knows in his heart of hearts that homeopathy is all balderdash and just a money-making scheme.

And so, I very much suspect, do you.