Dr. MAS - Please use this thread to explain homeopathy to us

Dr. A Sheikh said:
surgery is not contained branch of allopathic medical system. surgery is the part of all therapies including herbal, magnetotherpy, acupuncture, allopathy and homeopathy etc.
No, you silly thing.
It is the scientific diagnosis of the cause and the treatment of the injury or disease by operations with sharp things that could hurt you if you don't handle them properly.
<Dr. Staph, call yer service.>
 
H3LL said:
The mind boggles...

Herbal Surgery - Appendectomy with a twig?

Magnetotherapy Surgery - Inject iron-filling into the gall-bladder and rip it through the abdomen with powerful magnets?

Homeopathic Surgery - Lie patient in a completely empty room and wait outside?

Acupuncture Surgery - Use tatoo stylus to burrow into patient?
I was about to respond along the same lines, but you said it better. :D
 
H3LL said:
Homeopathic Surgery - Lie patient in a completely empty room and wait outside?
You have to shake him a few times, too. If it's a complicated surgery, you put him on a vibrating bed for an hour or so.
 
Dr. A Sheikh said:
surgery is not contained branch of allopathic medical system. surgery is the part of all therapies including herbal, magnetotherpy, acupuncture, allopathy and homeopathy etc.
sur·ger·y (sûrj-r) n. pl. sur·ger·ies

1. The branch of medicine that deals with the diagnosis and treatment of injury, deformity, and disease by manual and instrumental means.

2. A surgical operation or procedure, especially one involving the removal or replacement of a diseased organ or tissue.

3. An operating room or a laboratory of a surgeon or of a hospital's surgical staff.

4. The skill or work of a surgeon.


I guess you could sorta make the argument that waving magnets over, administering water to, and/or sticking needles into a person constitutes a "manual means", but I can't imagine anyone applying the title of "surgeon" to an acupuncturist, herbalist, homeopath, magnet waver, etc...

at least not with a straight face.
 
Psiload said:
sur·ger·y (sûrj-r) n. pl. sur·ger·ies


How wrong you must be! I mean, you're dealing with a Doctor here. On the internet, nobody can possibly lie about that.
 
Jeff Corey said:
No, you silly thing.
It is the scientific diagnosis of the cause and the treatment of the injury or disease by operations with sharp things that could hurt you if you don't handle them properly.
<Dr. Staph, call yer service.>

What do you mean by scientific diagonsis?

injury?

disease?

what is sharp thing?

What is the meaning hurt?
 
Psiload said:
sur·ger·y (sûrj-r) n. pl. sur·ger·ies

1. The branch of medicine that deals with the diagnosis and treatment of injury, deformity, and disease by manual and instrumental means.

2. A surgical operation or procedure, especially one involving the removal or replacement of a diseased organ or tissue.

3. An operating room or a laboratory of a surgeon or of a hospital's surgical staff.

4. The skill or work of a surgeon.



Homeopaths also do surgery, diagnosis and treatment. :p

They also perform operation and mange body organs with physical sharp instrument.
 
Homeo Man said:
Homeopaths also do surgery, diagnosis and treatment. :p

They also perform operation and mange body organs with physical sharp instrument.
In the US they can only do surgery if they are MDs (or DOs) in addition to being homeopaths.
So maybe homeopathy as a study is somewhat different in Pakistan.
 
Homeo Man said:
Homeopaths also do surgery, diagnosis and treatment. :p

They also perform operation and mange body organs with physical sharp instrument.

I couldn't have put it better myself:

mange

n : a persistent and contagious disease of the skin causing inflammation and itching and loss of hair; affects domestic animals (and sometimes people).


:D :D
 
flume said:
In the US they can only do surgery if they are MDs (or DOs) in addition to being homeopaths.
So maybe homeopathy as a study is somewhat different in Pakistan.

US is not the authority on education. :p

Homeopaths take 8 years to qualify for this job in Pakistan. four years in DHMS and Two to four years in BHMS. ;)
 
Homeo Man said:
US is not the authority on education. :p
Okay, but you can see how this would make a difference in the opinion on homeopathy in different countries. Here it is only thought of as a treatment using the homeopathic remedies.
 
Homeo Man said:
Homeopaths also do surgery, diagnosis and treatment. :p

They also perform operation and mange body organs with physical sharp instrument.
Bear with me here, Homeo Man, I am just a slug who knows nothing about the practice of medicine. I would ask you to describe in detail two specific homeopathic surgical procedures. The level of detail (presenting symptoms, dianosis, pre-surgical treatment, surgery itself, and post-op care) should allow my skeptical brethern who do practice the healing sciences to help me understand what you, in fact, do in your medical practice.

Thank you.
 
H3LL said:
Originally posted by Homeo Man
Homeopaths also do surgery, diagnosis and treatment.

They also perform operation and mange body organs with physical sharp instrument.
I couldn't have put it better myself:

mange

n : a persistent and contagious disease of the skin causing inflammation and itching and loss of hair; affects domestic animals (and sometimes people).


:D :D
I think it was probably a typo. He meant to type:

mangle

v: severely mutilate or damage by tearing or crushing.
 
Been lurking, off and on, throughout these threads. Still haven;t seen a single explaination of how homeopathy works.

Not one.

Maybe it's the homeopathic explaination of how homeopathy works. The less, they tell you, the more you know! The less that's in their posts, and the more posts they 'dilute' the information with, the better it works at explaination!

*sigh* Going off to finish that crossword puzzle I've been meaning to get to...let me know if they say anything new....
 
Non-Sense Homeopath said:
yes, why not?

but depends upon your answer of the asked question.

does it work in 6x, 12x or not?
Non-Sense Homeopath said:
WHENEVER THIS QUESTION WAS FLOATED THEY BYPASSED THIS QUESTION?
OK, let's get it answered. The original "admission" that inspired your question (and all the other nonsense that Mr. MAS and others have been spouting about 18X dilutions) was
I admit the possibility that an 18x preparation could show pharmaceutical effect.
OK, it is accepted that very dilute solutions of certain substances can have a pharmaceutical effect, but this can be explained without invoking homeopathy. There is, for example, nothing in this statement that concedes that the basic principle of "like cures like" is true. The statement says nothing about the theory of "miasms," the idea that most diseases are caused by "suppressed itch," or any of the other homeopathic claptrap.

The statement does not in any way concede that homeopathy is a valid system. OK?

Now can you PLEASE explain in scientific terms, as promised, how homeopathy works?
 
Homeo Man said:
US is not the authority on education. :p

Homeopaths take 8 years to qualify for this job in Pakistan. four years in DHMS and Two to four years in BHMS. ;)
It takes just 5 days to become a qualified homeopath in the U.S.

http://www.affordabledegrees.com/specific/index.asp?dp=1086&ase=gl

Just 5 days and you're every bit as justified in calling yourself a homeopath in America as a Pakistani with eight years of "education".

Even at $199 I'd say it's still overpriced.
 
Non-Sense Homeopath said:
does it work in 6x, 12x or not?
Well, if we're actually going to address this, then no, as a blanket statement, I do not believe that "it works" at 6X or 12X or any other X come to that.

Why not?

Because the whole assumption that "like cures like" is a pack of nonsense based on a misunderstanding.

Little homoeopathic history lesson.

Samuel Hahnemann was a German physician living at the end of the 18th century. He had a job translating medical texts into German. One of the books he was given to translate was the Materia Medica of William Cullen, a very famous professor at Glasgow University. In this book Cullen stated (correctly) that the bark of the cinchona tree was an effective treatment for malaria. He also speculated (incorrectly) that the reason for the efficacy was that the bark had an astringent action on the stomach.

Hahnemann thought about this, and realised (correctly) that this explanation was unlikely, because there were a number of other things with an even more astringent action on the stomach which didn't do a blind bit of good for malaria. He then decided to get some of the bark and see if he could figure it out. He took some himself, and it made him feel unwell. He believed that the symptoms he was experiencing were similar to those of malaria. He tried this several times, and indeed, the effect was reproducible.

However, what he failed to do was to find out if the effect also happened to other people. In fact it doesn't. The vast majority of people, on taking cinchona bark, will not experience what Hahnemann experienced. It appears that he suffered an idiosyncratic, probably allergic, reaction to something in the bark.

Nevertheless, Hahnemenn concluded from this observation that the reason that cinchona bark cures malaria is that it produces malarial symptoms in healthy people. Wrong on two counts. First, as I said, cinchona bark doesn't produce malarial symptoms in the vast majority of healthy people. Second, the reason cinchona bark cures malaria is that it contains a high concentration of quinine, which kills the Plasmodium protozoan which causes malaria.

"Like cures like" is an expression of a very ancient way of thinking called "sympathetic magic". It can be found running through the thinking and practice of almost all primitive peoples, and indeed it is so ingrained into the human psyche that even modern man finds himself thinking that way sometimes.

However, it has absolutely no basis in fact. Whether or not any particular substance is active against any particular disease has nothing at all to do with whatever symptoms it might cause in a healthy person.

Therefore, there is no reason at all to believe that "homoeopathy works" at any dilution at all.

However, at the very low potencies, that is under 24X and 12C, there are indeed some traces of the original mother tincture present. It would therefore be foolish to declare that it is entirely impossible that any such preparation could ever have any sort of physiological effect. Especially right down at 6X, it's possible that certain individual preparations of particularly pharmacologically active substances might have an effect. For example, if you started with a highly concentrated mother tincture, I think you'd be very unwise to take a 6X preparation of potassium cyanide.

This is nevertheless not any sort of admission that "homoeopathy works" at these dilutions. Merely an observation that sometimes, with certain preparations, something might happen. Probably not that a disease would be cured though!

However, we note that when homoeopaths practise, they usually use much higher dilutuions than this. 30C is a very common prescription, and 200C seems quite popular too.

We know that such preparations have absolutely nothing at all of the mother tincture in them. We therefore discard all these earler caveats and state categorically that these preparations cannot possibly have any effect at all (beyond whatever effect the carrier solvent might have).

It is thus interesting that these homoeopaths are continually turning away from our constant questions about the 30C preparations. This is the clear question, to which we want an answer.

DO YOU THEN AGREE THAT 30C PREPARATIONS DO NOT (AND CANNOT) WORK?

Rolfe.
 

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