Dog consumption

[GreNME]

Is mak a PETA member, and as such a donator of moneys potentially to the ALF and ELF, aka, a terrorist supporter?

No clue, but considering the arguments so far I'm getting the impression that makaya325 is at least trying to sneak a bit of the PETA/HSUS/ASPCA fundamentalism into the discussion.

 

[BTMO]

I don't believe minki whales are threatened now, at least any more than varieties of fish are. I'm just pointing to the outraged response to the killing of some whales compared to the "let them eat dogs, reindeer, anything they want - it's none of our business".

The problem with such whaling is that, while minkes aren't endangered today, the history of whaling demonstrates that prolonged hunting of whales means that they very possibly will be tomorrow.

The *only* reason minkes are hunted - they are one of the smallest of the balean whales - is that there simply aren't enough of the larger species left. They were hunted to the brink of extinction.

That said, there was some interesting research done a few years ago in Japan. A western researcher went there with a small, portable PCR set up and bought some commercially available whale meat.

He amplified DNA from the samples and sent it out of Japan to be sequenced.

Turned out the meat he had bought was from species (IIRC) such as right whales, fin whales and humpback whales - species that no one hunts (legally) and hasn't officially for something like 40 years.

Either the meat in question has been in the freezer for a bloody long time, or (far more likely) the embargoes on commercial whaling of endangered species are being ignored.

Oh, why PCR / synthesis of DNA? Well, if the researcher had sent whale meat out of Japan, he'd have breached CITES conventions.

By cloning the DNA, he was just sending manufactured products around - which is ok...

ETA: Oh btw - I didn't mean to imply he *only* bought whales that turned out to be endangered species. A lot of what he bought was minke and other species covered under the Japanese scientific whaling programme. But several samples were protected and very endangered species...

 

[BTMO]

Whales are used for Candle wax, perfume, and consumption. What are dogs killed for? Any of this?

Well, based on your first post, consumption....

That is the point (and the title) of the thread, isn't it?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Funny thing is I recall many members getting really hot under the collar in threads about Japanese hunting whales for food. Surely that is nobody else's business.

I can't recall if I commented in any whale or dolphin threads recently, however, I think you can judge the correctness of eating something by some quality you find matters. Intelligence being the quality in an animal many find important not to slaughter or eat.

The problem in this thread is making the argument on a cultural standard rather than on a quality the animal actually possesses.

What is a pet and what is food is not necessarily based on the animal's character. It is based on the cultural view of the animal's character.

It's a pet. Clearly that is cultural.
It's cute. Again, cultural.
It has a big brain and intelligence to go with it. That is the animal's quality.

Now, you can say some cultures don't care about the animal's brain. That's fine. You can argue that morality. But arguing dogs are pets therefore not food is a different argument.

 

[Cleon]

It has a big brain and intelligence to go with it. That is the animal's quality.

We're talking about dogs.

Cute? Yes.
Friendly? Yup.
Lovable? Absolutely.

Intelligent? ... Not so much.

 

[Epok]

No, there is a difference between violently killing a dog, and putting a very sick or old dog who is in pain and can't live on, to sleep

Has Ingrid Newkirk invaded the forums? Seriously, anyone as foolish as you must work for PETA or Greenpeace. Who cares if they are eating dogs in other countries? They eat horsemeat in other countries also, sometimes shipped from America.

Oh, by the way, puppies make the best meat. Its more tender although you get less meat out of them.

 

[Earthborn]

We're talking about dogs.

I interpreted Skeptigirl's post as a list of properties of different animals that are either inherent in the animal or a cultural valuation of the animal.

To summarise what I think she meant:
Some animals are pets. That's cultural.
Some animals are cute. That's cultural.
Some animals have big brains and intelligence. That's not cultural, though whether big brains make it wrong to eat it is cultural.

 

[Prometheus]

Dogs taste better than whales, and they're easier to catch.

 

[DC]

After i got back from walking an elderly woman's Boston Terrier, Magoo, I began looking up dog information. The subject of "Dog consumption" came up, and while reading it, I began to rethink why America does not try to stop any of this horror.

Check out this statistic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog#Etymology_and_related_terminology



I am amazed on the above. How in the hell can American citizens tolerate this kind of animal slaughtering? There is a difference between consumption of wild animals that are used as food frequently, and eating Man's bestfriend.

I am aware that, yes, different cultures around the world have their own rituals/traditions/etc, but there should be a limit when talking about humans consuming Dogs.

i love dogs and would never eat dog meat. But why should anyone want to stopp others from eating dogs?
they like dog meat, and im sure it taste good aslong you dont have that connection to them like we in europe have for example.

But what do you think how Indians must feel? the whole earth is eating not only their best friend, the world eats animals they regard as holy.

 

[Arus808]

The dogs consumed in Asian contries are not pet breeds; they're food breeds. It's an entirely different animal. It's raised and treated as livestock, and it's eaten as livestock. I hope to try dog someday.

Its actually quite tasty, a bit more tough than beef but it does have a hint of of the taste of "beef". Can't describe it specifically since the last time I had dog meat was at a friend's wedding (Filipino wedding) over 10 years ago.

by far, the OP is arguing from emotion not from facts.

Im a pet lover. I've had various pest from rats to turtles, owned a couple of frogs, even a snake. Hamsters, gerbils, ferrets, prairie dog, dogs, love birds, rosellas, cockatoo, guinea pigs, chinchillas, rabbits (galore), a pet pig, turkey, chickens.

My family owns a meat market, and with that, several slaughter houses and farms (pigs and cattle). I've been to these slaughter houses from time to time over the years. So I know how slaughterhouses are run and the way animals are treated before we see their meat in the supermarket.

most of the animals I've had as pets were at one time, or are currently food in other cultures, or right here in the USA.

I dont see an issue with any culture eating any type of animal as food.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

We're talking about dogs.

Cute? Yes.
Friendly? Yup.
Lovable? Absolutely.

Intelligent? ... Not so much.

I was talking about whale and dolphin brains, not dog brains.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I interpreted Skeptigirl's post as a list of properties of different animals that are either inherent in the animal or a cultural valuation of the animal.

To summarise what I think she meant:
Some animals are pets. That's cultural.
Some animals are cute. That's cultural.
Some animals have big brains and intelligence. That's not cultural, though whether big brains make it wrong to eat it is cultural.

Yep, you got it!

 

[SatanicSheep]

You have how many cows In Korea? Yet, Dogs are consumed more frequently than Cows there. Boy, what a waste of cows. They should come home

That's not even remotely close to true.

 

[Riayn]

Dear OP,

Are you aware that millions of dogs are killed in the US shelters every year? These dogs are not used to feed hungry families but are simply disposed of because our culture overbreeds and abandons them.
Are you outraged about this? Or did you conveniently forget about this fact?

 

[LTC8K6]

Dog was way too expensive to eat over cow when I was in South Korea...

 

[quixotecoyote]

Dear OP,

Are you aware that millions of dogs are killed in the US shelters every year? These dogs are not used to feed hungry families but are simply disposed of because our culture overbreeds and abandons them.
Are you outraged about this? Or did you conveniently forget about this fact?

I finished reading the thread and I'm surprised no one had made this point before.

I think Riayn is winning the thread as of this moment.

 

[Riayn]

I finished reading the thread and I'm surprised no one had made this point before.

I think Riayn is winning the thread as of this moment.

How very kind of you, sir.

 

[GreNME]

We're talking about dogs.

Cute? Yes.
Friendly? Yup.
Lovable? Absolutely.

Intelligent? ... Not so much.

Actually, dogs are mostly quite intelligent. However, it's a juvenile intelligence-- they're quite dependent. But that's another topic.

-----

Dear OP,

Are you aware that millions of dogs are killed in the US shelters every year? These dogs are not used to feed hungry families but are simply disposed of because our culture overbreeds and abandons them.
Are you outraged about this? Or did you conveniently forget about this fact?

This is a poor argument. The vast majority of dogs killed in shelters every year are due to outdated administration, poor organization, and lazy methodologies. The canard of "overpopulation" has gone on without change for at least 30 years, while the actual numbers of animals in shelters and without homes has gone down more than 90% over the past three decades. I strongly suggest this book for a critical view of the argument than PETA, HSUS, and the ASPCA has used to perpetuate themselves despite the assertion becoming less and less applicable in reality. For a breakdown of the criticism I'm talking about (for those disinclined to read the book), this article covers the gist of the author's points.

There definitely are criticisms that can be levied against "our culture" with regard to our own treatment of animals, and accusing the OP of hypocrisy sure has merit on that point. However, using the claim of overpopulation is a mistake.

 

[Darth Rotor]

You have to understand that where dogs are eaten, historically, it's been the only reliable source of meat. I can't fault someone for filling their hungry belly.

Lewis and Clark expedition: before they hit the upper Missouri River, Lewis and Clark expedition chronicled a number of stops/visits at villages among Plains tribes where dogs were often in abundance in the village, though now and again used as dinner.

Thus, eating dog is Authentic American cuisine, as opposed to the effete habits brought over from Europe.

DR

 

[quixotecoyote]

There definitely are criticisms that can be levied against "our culture" with regard to our own treatment of animals, and accusing the OP of hypocrisy sure has merit on that point. However, using the claim of overpopulation is a mistake.

I'm almost certain the point of Riayn's post was that we have no outrage as a society over dogs being killed in shelters and thus outrage over eating dogs is inconsistent, not whether the reason for that is that we don't care enough, are incompetent, or face an overpopulation problem.