Christian Salvation Is Heinously Unjust

[Belz...]

Christianity is about mercy as well as justice.

No. Christianity is about Jesus.

There is this life, and afterwards, a judgement. Jesus did not die to make you immune from judgement, as in not having to appear.

Good, because the whole concept of god sacrificing himself to appease himself of something he's already decided to do, via proxy, is crazy at best.

 

[tsig]

Fundamentalism test?
The Bible is generally accepted among Christians as being authoritative.

Do you have the authoritative version in your possession?

 

[Ethnikos]

Do you have the authoritative version in your possession?

I'm not a Bible collector but I have a few.
It may be that some denominations hold one version as being superior but I was never subjected to that sort of indoctrination myself. I try to study the Greek and Hebrew to find out how much of the translations are more interpretation.

 

[dafydd]

I'm not a Bible collector but I have a few.
It may be that some denominations hold one version as being superior but I was never subjected to that sort of indoctrination myself. I try to study the Greek and Hebrew to find out how much of the translations are more interpretation.

Everyone should have a hobby.

 

[Complexity]

You are probably bored already before I even say anything and I can't blame you because I have been saying basically the same thing on this forum for a long time.

This.

 

[CriticalSock]

@critical sock
the link works
checking it

edit to add: having a Bible may create more consistency than not having one.
Language can have ambiguities and hard to avoid, especially considering the lapse of time.

Thanks for checking the link, I hope you didn't find it offensive. It is a bit tongue in cheek, but I think there is a serious point raised too.

I agree that if there was a god who had a purpose for his creation then a bible type arrangement of instructions would be a good idea. My point is that the bible that is presented to us isn't good enough to be the divine word of God. It's not good enough to be a book written by men under the inspiriation of the divine. It is, however, exactly good enough to have been written by the men of the time.

The bible should be the tool that builds faith, it shouldn't require faith to believe what it says.

 

[Ethnikos]

Thanks for checking the link, I hope you didn't find it offensive. It is a bit tongue in cheek, but I think there is a serious point raised too.

I am someone who appreciates criticism, being rather sceptical myself. My "faith" (as I have pointed out on numerous occasions) is based on actual life experiences. So poking at held beliefs is something I engage in, such as that series of posts on this thread, where I point out the flaws in the most fundamental Christian beliefs.
Some of the best early Christian writings were destroyed out of doctrinal concerns, as would my posts if the church had the power to do it.

 

[dafydd]

Some of the best early Christian writings were destroyed out of doctrinal concerns, as would my posts if the church had the power to do it.

No. I don't know which church you are alluding to but I will bet that they have never heard of you.

 

[Ethnikos]

Anyone who wants to know about the different versions of Christian salvation could do well to copy and Google this line: "Christus Victor Reason for the the Crucifixion"
The article points out,

The various theories of atonement:
Moral Influence
Substitutionary and Penal Substitution
Ransom
Christus Victor
Satisfaction

 

[dafydd]

Anyone who wants to know about the different versions of Christian salvation could do well to copy and Google this line: "Christus Victor Reason for the the Crucifixion"
The article points out,

Who says that the crucifixion happened? A book of old stories.

 

[Leumas]

The bible should be the tool that builds faith, it shouldn't require faith to believe what it says.

Perfectly said....hear hear....indeed.

 

[Leumas]

Good, because the whole concept of god sacrificing himself to appease himself of something he's already decided to do, via proxy, is crazy at best.

Well said indeed.....bravo....

 

[Leumas]

My "faith" (as I have pointed out on numerous occasions) is based on actual life experiences.

Every time I hear this I cringe with anger at the levels of EGOTISM and GREED that result in people saying this.

I always wonder why they never pause to think about the little boy who is being bent over to be violated in the rectum right there in the rectory of Christ's house under Christ's eyes and this Christ never sees it fit to reveal himself neither to the boy being buggered nor to the holy imposter doing the buggering, nor to the holy monsters who employ him.

Why is it that Christ always manages to INTERFERE in the FREE WILL of the claimants to personal faith in him by giving them extra attention and endowing them with special favors, while he does not bother to prevent the trillions of atrocities that are in dire need of much more pressing interference.

So when a little boy is violated in the Church it is Jesus not wanting to interfere in human free will.....but he is more than willing to give some rich guy more money or save some DUIer from jail.

Jesus was willing to raise some fetid dead person or kill poor Ananias and his wife to SHOW OFF his powers but not prevent thousands of little boys being penetrated in the rectum in his name.

BUT.....another even more interesting question is why is it that these people ALWAYS claim it is Jesus if they are brought up Christian, but at the same time are utterly dismissive when they hear someone claim similar faith-conducive experiences but attribute them to Mohammad or Vishnu or Moses (etc.)

Why is it that you consider your faith-conducive experience to be more valid or more reality based than the billions of people now and in the past who claimed very similar experiences and attributed them to all the other gods from Baal to Zeus and Jesus????

Why are you so arrogant, egotistic, selfish and DELUDED to think that you are more worthy for Jesus to reveal himself to you than any of the millions of children being buggered literally or figuratively on hourly basis all around the world? Why are you so RACIST and bigoted to think that all the people who claim the same egotism as yours but in the name of some other god are indeed deluded but cannot realize that you are also just as deluded???

 

[Ethnikos]

*snip*
Why are you so arrogant, egotistic, selfish and DELUDED to think that you are more worthy for Jesus to reveal himself to you than any of the millions of children being buggered literally or figuratively on hourly basis all around the world? Why are you so RACIST and bigoted to think that all the people who claim the same egotism as yours but in the name of some other god are indeed deluded but cannot realize that you are also just as deluded???

It seems obvious to me that you have not read many of my posts, otherwise you would have found the one that said that none of my experiences confirmed one particular religion as being the right one and that I had never met Jesus.
My point earlier was that I may not have any true faith, since my belief is based on things which I have been witness to.

 

[Complexity]

 

[tsig]

I'm not a Bible collector but I have a few.
It may be that some denominations hold one version as being superior but I was never subjected to that sort of indoctrination myself. I try to study the Greek and Hebrew to find out how much of the translations are more interpretation.

So you really don't have the word of god in your possession?

 

[Ethnikos]

So you really don't have the word of god in your possession?

There must be a real shortage of Bible thumpers on this forum lately.
I usually don't get much notice because I am not very fun to play with, seeing I am not dogmatic and conservative.
The word of God is prophecy, the written word is a tool to use to focus your mind and to prepare yourself to receive the prophecy.

 

[tsig]

It seems obvious to me that you have not read many of my posts, otherwise you would have found the one that said that none of my experiences confirmed one particular religion as being the right one and that I had never met Jesus.
My point earlier was that I may not have any true faith, since my belief is based on things which I have been witness to.

And your experience trumps everyone else's.

 

[Ethnikos]

And your experience trumps everyone else's.

I don't know who these "everyone else" is.
I'm talking about faith. Ask a Christian what faith is and one of the top three answers will be, evidence of things not seen.
I'm saying, I did see, so it may not be faith that I have.
These things can not give someone else faith.
Just as someone else's experience can not give me faith.
It can give someone something to think about.
I think about other people's stories and I don't just live in a little world where only I am an actor in it.

 

[psionl0]

It appears that Jesus is telling us to forgive others every time they apologize - whether the apology is sincere or not.

I find no evidence in the bible that God will apply the same standard to us (apart from Matthew 7:2). In fact, most churches will teach you that your sins won't be forgiven unless you genuinely repent.

Yet another example where the bible can support any view you want and, if not, you can ignore the bible altogether if your own message sounds nicer.

That's called, the benefit of the doubt.
God will have conclusive evidence on the day of judgement to make an accurate determination.

That would appear to prove my point. The phrase "benefit of the doubt" does not appear in either the old or the new testaments. It is something you added just to explain why you think that God will judge us by a different standard to that which we use to judge others.