Can this qualify as a challenge?

[Psiload]

Thanks also to Psiload for finding the website. Yes, that is the website that lists the 19 prophecies that the spirit revealed in 1979.

To whom were these prophecies revealed? Below you state that you "got hold" of the prophecies in 1982, so I'm assuming that these prophecies are not your own.

I claim that the GOTACURAL disease is AIDS. Did you know that in 1982 when I first got hold of the prophecies, I was looking for a disease called GOTACURAL? AIDS was not named AIDS then. ***snip***

Actually, it was...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) originally classified AIDS as GRID which stood for Gay Related Immune Disease.[citation needed] However, after determining that AIDS is not isolated to homosexual people, in 1982 the CDC introduced the neutral term AIDS.

The following is from a transcript of a White House press briefing which occured in October 1982:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Speakes

Les Kinsolving(Washington press corps reporter): Larry, does the president have any reaction to the announcement—the Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta, that AIDS is now an epidemic and have over 600 cases?

Larry Speakes(Presidential Spokesman): What’s AIDS?

Kinsolving: Over a third of [the victims] have died. It’s known as “gay plague.” (laughter) No, it is. I mean it’s a pretty serious thing that one in every three people that get this have died. And I wondered if the president is aware of it?

Speakes: I don’t have it. Do you? (laughter)

 

[Loss Leader]

My first clue was GOT in the name GOTACURAL which is synonymous to “acquired.” AIDS, as we know it now, is a disease that is acquired, hence, the name. AIDS is the acronym of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome.

After GOT, is ACUR. I came to the conclusion that this must mean “without cure,” just like asymmetrical meaning without symmetry, or amoral meaning without moral. The prefix A in a word means “not” or “without.”

The last part in the name GOTACURAL is AL. AL is a suffix meaning “relating to” or “characterized by” like in directional, fictional, hormonal, organizational, spectral, tidal. Therefore, GOTACURAL is a disease characterized by being acquired and without cure. Doesn’t AIDS perfectly fit this description of the name GOTACURAL? It does. And it is spot on!

So, you broke GOTACURAL down by realizing that "Got" is a synonym of "Aquired." In that case, why is the rest ("acural") not a synonym for "Immune Deficiency Syndrome. By your logic, shouldn't it be "GOT-EXEMPT-PAUCITY-MALADY"? If the prediction had been GOTEXEMPTPAUCITYMALADY, I would probably agree with you.

But then you add that "CUR" means "Cure." You do this by adding an "E." Exactly what rule of prophetic interpretation allows us to add letters?

Then, you finish by determining that "AL" is latin for "relating to." So, you started by deciphering the word in english and then switched to Latin? How many languages are we allowed to sort through to decode this prophesy?

In any case, my spirit guide POOCHIE, tells me you are wrong. GOTACURAL is broken down as follows:

GO - Meaning to travel somewhere.
TAC - The second word in Tic-Tac-Toe. It literally means "In the middle."
URAL - The 2,500 kilometer mountain range that separates Europe from Asia.

Thus, GOTACURAL means, literally, "Go to the middle of the Ural mountains." This is a reference to the place from which the disease originates. As no uncurable disease has yet come from the Urals, the prophesy is as yet unfulfilled.


Surely, PC, you must see that you are backwards-fitting reality onto a prophesy and that you are pattern-searching for any confirmation whatsoever. The prophesy is either unfulfilled or wrong.

If you cannot see this, I fear that we have little left to discuss.

 

[Loss Leader]

Les Kinsolving(Washington press corps reporter): Larry, does the president have any reaction to the announcement—the Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta, that AIDS is now an epidemic and have over 600 cases?

Larry Speakes(Presidential Spokesman): What’s AIDS?

Larry Speaks! I haven't thought about him in years. Man, that Reagan White House was just on top of every domestic issue in America. I think this was during the time Ed Meese was trying to get convenience stores to put plastic wrap on Playboy.

I honestly never thought I would see a worse President in my lifetime. Boy, was I wrong.

 

[Jackalgirl]

Please don’t be offended if I use “fellowmen.” I am not sexist. I understand that “fellowmen” is a mass noun applicable to and include both men and women. Which do you think is better—fellowmen or fellow human beings?

Honestly? "Fellow human beings". But that's really a non-issue at this point.

Thank you very much for your recommendation. It is good to discuss first which is acceptable to the JREF challenge than going to it straight away. Did you know that it would cost me 80 Australian dollars just to have the document notarized? And I don’t want to waste such hard-earned money if it turned out that my challenge is unacceptable.

No argument there. That is a chunk o' money! So I'm glad you're here, because we can at least help you develop a protocol we think is solid. Mind you, remember that we're not official speakers for JREF so we can't guarantee how JREF will react, but between the lot of us here, we have a lot of experience watching people apply for the Challenge. So I think we can be helpful.

What are examples of what He can/does/is willing to tell us? So many things, especially on the life and teachings of Jesus. He also gives prophecies, like the three-eyed babies (plural) which will be born and the coming World War III which will greatly reduce the number of people in this world. Please visit my website to know more of what He told us. I have not translated to English many of the sermons yet. I also have not uploaded yet other sermons from copies of tape recordings of sessions that I have. (Other listeners have more comprehensive collection and from earlier sessions before I became a listener in 1983.)

I think it would be a good idea to concentrate on stuff that can be verified, which means that things related to the life of Jesus are probably not good candidates for the Challenge. However, if your spirit can be very specific about a future occurance, such as "On such-and-such date, in such-and-such location, a three-eyed baby will be born" (and it would be even better if the parents were named), that's something that can be worked with. A vague statement like "three-eyed babies will be born" isn't really testable; odds are that at some point, a baby with that birth defect will occur somewhere. Hence the need for specificity. Again, find things that require NO explanation or interpretation.

Please pardon me if I don't visit your website. I want to avoid becoming tangled in the attempt to mine data for patterns which is, as I've mentioned before, an ability to which human beings are particularly suited. If you read the Challenge Application sections, you'll see that JREF is also particularly uninterested in large amounts of data and/or testimonials of this nature. They (and I) are interested in specific claims, which it is /your/ task to provide (not mine or theirs to find). If you can provide something very specific, I think you will have a good claim.

 

[Mojo]

I will not only try to verify the veracity of the revealed dates scientifically but also historically.

How are you planning to verify the dates "scientifically"? What techniques will you use?

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Dear Webfusion and my Fellowmen,

I thought so.

Why didn't you ask the spirit, instead of consulting Forsythe & Corre?

I am extremely skeptical about you having any special ability to contact and obtain detailed information from a spirit, and this just adds to my skepticism.

I'm sure you understand that the only way you can win a Million from the JREF is to place your claim in the context of being able to communicate and obtain detailed obscure information from your spirit, which can then be confirmed.
Anything else is unacceptable, IMO.

The spirit did not reveal the exact dates. He just gave the month and the day when Jesus was born and crucified and died. No year. It seems to me that the dates He revealed were puzzles to solve. So I did not ask further, except in about 1999 for a confirmation from Him about the crucifixion and death date of August 17, 1 BC that I got. After I got that confirmation, I tried to solve it.

He did not spoon-feed us regarding these matters. Maybe, of all the listeners, I was the only one who tried to determine the veracity of the revealed dates.

If He did not give to us the year, how much more of the Jewish equivalent dates.

I have written that the experience of talking to a spirit is not exclusive to me. Other people are present as well during our sessions with the spirit. You may read His sermons in my website. I do not have that ability to present such sermons but what I can do is transcribe what is recorded on tape as accurately as possible and translate it to English.

What I noticed is He knows each of us and our “secrets” and the people we may be in contact with although I believe He knows all people.

(I will be replying to others tomorrow night.)

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

 

[Thabiguy]

1. PeaceCrusader, please explain to me why you believe that GOTACURAL means AIDS, when it is obvious that GOTACURAL means asthma? Consider that asthma incidence among US children has increased by 75% in recent decades, its rate reaching 40% among some population of urban children. Certainly, it is an incurable disease that occurs in epidemic proportions all over the land, isn't it?

2. PeaceCrusader's interpretation of GOTACURAL is wrong, as is Loss Leader's "Ural" interpretation. My spirit guide Nur-ab-Sal says that Poochie is a fake! He says GOTACURAL actually means "GOT A CURe, At Last!" and indicates that the disease is not really incurable after all. What a relief.

No, wait, my second spirit guide Purple Armadillo has a different interpretation:
GO = short for goo, "mess"
T = short for "transcendental"
AC = short for "accumulate"
URAL = condensed form of "unreal"

In other words, the prophecy really says, "belief in unreal transcendental phenomena will continue to accumulate, causing mess all over the world". Sadly, that has proved very correct. My only hope is that Nur-ab-Sal is right in saying that it is not incurable after all.

And here's one more interpretation for you:
GOT = "have"
ACUR = "accuracy"
AL = ad-lib, or ad libitum, meaning "at one's pleasure"

This one clearly translates as "you can have arbitrary accuracy", or, in other words, "given any random, obscure phrase, you can construct an interpretation that will give it any meaning you like".

Guess which of these statements is most accurate.

 

[Moochie]

PC, you can call me fellowbudgerigar for all I care, but I do wish that you would get to the nitty gritty.

By that I mean develop an agreed protocol and let's test this "spirit voice" of yours.

Like the geezer in another active thread , you seem to have a need to illuminate every little nuance of your abiding fantasy for us, and frankly, it reads like a two-bit comic book.

M.

 

[baron]

I particularly like prophecy No. 5

SIGNIFICANT REVELATIONS FROM HEAVEN - Heaven will make certain significant revelations which, however, will escape peoples' notice due to their engrossment in self-centered activities

 

[Loss Leader]

I'm starting to get the very distinct impression that PC is a Victor Zammit-style spiritualist. He and some friends sit in the dark with a medium. The medium talks in a funny voice and he records it as "proof" of the spirit world.

If so, he will never agree to any proper protocol. in fact, he will never agree to be tested with the lights on.

Am I right, PC? Would turning on the lights disrupt the ectoplasm and kill your medium?

 

[TheClaw]

PeaceCrusader, since this spirit gave you a month and day for a past event, here's a simple question:
Has the spirit ever given you a date and place for a future event? If so, can you provide any examples?

If your spirit can provide that, you've most likely got a million dollars coming.

 

[Silly Green Monkey]

It's impossible for a healthy baby to be born with a set of 32 adult-sized teeth. There's a reason children only have 20 teeth, their jaws are too small to contain adult teeth.

Thabiguy, beware, I have a lead-lined gold box. And little gold beads.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Dear Jackalgirl and my Fellowmen,

Please don’t be offended if I use “fellowmen.” I am not sexist. I understand that “fellowmen” is a mass noun applicable to and include both men and women. Which do you think is better—fellowmen or fellow human beings?

Thank you very much for your recommendation. It is good to discuss first which is acceptable to the JREF challenge than going to it straight away. Did you know that it would cost me 80 Australian dollars just to have the document notarized? And I don’t want to waste such hard-earned money if it turned out that my challenge is unacceptable.

I have presented the dates in other forums but the people there may not be as critical thinkers as you are in this Forum. Another is, I found out lately that there is a one million US dollars at stake to prove that one possesses a psychic, paranormal, or supernatural power. Hence, this inquiry in the Forum.

What are examples of what He can/does/is willing to tell us? So many things, especially on the life and teachings of Jesus. He also gives prophecies, like the three-eyed babies (plural) which will be born and the coming World War III which will greatly reduce the number of people in this world. Please visit my website to know more of what He told us. I have not translated to English many of the sermons yet. I also have not uploaded yet other sermons from copies of tape recordings of sessions that I have. (Other listeners have more comprehensive collection and from earlier sessions before I became a listener in 1983.)

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

May I suggest, PeaceCrusader, that you focus on one claim and try to provide proof for said one claim?

You seem to be either misunderstanding the point or evading the point.
What PROVES absolutely and without doubt that the dates you or the "spirits are about to speak" state are correct? The fact that a good scholar can use bits of data correlated to each other to fix an approximate 30 year range is not evidence/proof of anything. Only specific proof (which your or spirits statements, historians approximations, untestable time -approximate texts etc. cannot give) complete and inarguably accurate could win the prize - if acceptable. Nothing you have said addresses that in the slightest way.

What exactly do you claim, PeaceCrusader?
How do you intend to prove your claim?
What would be a positive result, what would be a negative result?
...

Please note that it is imperative for your claim to be falsifiable.

I suggest furthermore, you word your claim exactly as you would in a JREF Challenge Application. Hints on how to do that can be found here: http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html and here: http://www.randi.org/research/faq.html

Please remember: USD 1,000,000 if your claim gets accepted and you prove it successfully.

 

[webfusion]

I really have to unsubscribe from this thread, the first time I have ever done such a thing on JREF.

 

[Burner]

Peacecrusader,

Stop that Jesus stuff, nobody cares. If you can show us some proof of that spirit that could be interesting tho. A good lottery prediction would do. No wait, you wouldn't need a million dollars then, would you?

 

[PeaceCrusader]

My Dear Fellowmen,

This is my e-mail to Jeff Wagg of JREF on Friday, 2007 February 3::
=-=-=-=-=
Dear Jeff, I would like to accept the challenge but firstly, I would like to know if this qualifies. A spirit revealed that Jesus was born on May 23 and was crucified on August 17. Also, the spirit, in one sermon, said that Jesus died in 1 BC. Therefore, His death and crucifixion happened on August 17, 1 BC. His birth year would therefore be about 30 years before 1 BC. I therefore claim that the revelation that Jesus was born on May 23, 33 BC and was crucified and died on August 17, 1 BC are true and correct. If this claim is acceptable, I wish I would be able to prove scientifically that the revelation is correct. Your advice if this challenge is acceptable will be greatly appreciated. Best regards, Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo
=-=-=-=-=

This is the reply that I received from Jeff Wagg yesterday, Sunday, 2007 February 5:
=-=-=-=-=
Receiving information from a spirit is testable, but this information is not. Can you receive information about sealed boxes?

Jeff Wagg
JREF
=-=-=-=-=

My special thanks to Darat for suggesting that I e-mail Jeff Wagg.

I doubt it since you aren't making a testable claim.

However contact Jeff Wagg directly at jeff@randi.org, he's the JREF representative that deals with new applications.

From Jeff’s reply, my inquiry about the May 23, 33 BC birth and August 17, 1 BC death of Jesus Christ is not testable, hence, does not qualify for the challenge. However, he asked if I could receive information from the spirit about what sealed boxes contain. That is very easy for the spirit. You can put many things in the box, seal it, and I firmly believe that He can name them all correctly. However, I do not know if He would like to undergo such test. I will ask Him.

Why do I doubt if He would like to undergo such test? Because He does not want people to believe in Him just because they saw a “miracle”. He wants them to believe in Him and have faith in Him always. It is just like being cured of a disease. While ill because of the disease, a person may keep on asking his god to heal him. Once he is healed, he cannot even utter the name of his god.

But for the purpose of this challenge, I will ask Him if He is willing to be subjected to such test. Please give me time. As soon as I get the reply, I will inform you.

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

 

[Moochie]

My "spirit" guide predicts that your "spirit" guide will say "no." In that regard, it may be that your spirit is related to Sylvia's spirit mate, "Francine." If this turns out to be the case, it will be evident that both lack balls.

M.

 

[Big Al]

GOTACURAL - this must be somebody asking me if I have a non-pedigree canine companion - "Got a cur, Al?"

Obvious. No abbreviations, no interpretation, no mangling necessary. I therefore have to state that this hasn't happened. Over the last 25 years, I have not had a plague of people enquiring into my choice of pets.

QED

But seriously, Peace Crusader, even you must admit that your interpretation of this GOTACURAL is highly subjective and far from definitive. I would have thought the omniscient spirits could have been a little more precise in their prognostications.

Instead of GOT-ACURE-AL, even assuming your logic, you could read it as GOT-A-CURE-AL, i.e. something that can be cured.

 

[temporalillusion]

This is a good example of the reason for the changes to the challenge.

 

[Psiload]

Why do I doubt if He would like to undergo such test? Because He does not want people to believe in Him just because they saw a “miracle”. He wants them to believe in Him and have faith in Him always. It is just like being cured of a disease. While ill because of the disease, a person may keep on asking his god to heal him. Once he is healed, he cannot even utter the name of his god.

Really? When did "He" change "His" miracle policy? I must not have gotten the memo from "Him". Last I knew "His" brat was walking on water, healing lepers and the blind, doing the kooky water into wine thing, etc...

Why "He" gotta go and get all stingy with the miracles all of a sudden? Cripes, "He" used to throw around miracles at the drop of a hat... throwing a big dinner party and not enough bread and fish to feed everyone? Shaaazam! A miracle! All you can eat buffet! An uppity fig tree not cooperating? Zap! A miracle! Wither that naughty fig tree toot suite!

But now, nuthin'? We get nuthin'?