Can this qualify as a challenge?

[Loss Leader]

Would you like to know what will happen in the future? The spirit gave us many. There were 19 prophecies which were revealed on October 19, 1979 and published in a Sunday magazine supplement of a Manila daily newspaper. Twenty-seven years have passed so we can check if they have happened or not.

So, here are all 19 of the Manila prophesies. Prepare, people, to have your socks literally blown off.

1. VIOLENT WEATHER - More violent manifestations of the weather will occur, causing devastation to both people and crops;

2. UNNATURAL AND UNBELIEVABLE OCCURRENCES - The world will witness a number of unnatural and unbelievable occurrences, which are nevertheless true. For one, certain infants will be born with fully-grown hair and a complete set of adult teeth. Scared by this phenomenon, mothers of these infants will be driven to getting rid of such offspring. This is one Providential notice of displeasure over mankind 's waning regard for the Kingdom of God.

3 PEOPLE'S RELATIONSHIP - Peoples' relationship with one another will take a bad turn and cause universal unrest;

4 CONFUSION OF WORSHIP - There will be worldwide confusion of worship caused by a lot of religious distortions by pseudo preachers for self-gain;

5 SIGNIFICANT REVELATIONS FROM HEAVEN - Heaven will make certain significant revelations which, however, will escape peoples' notice due to their engrossment in self-centered activities;

6 BREAK-UP OF FAMILIES - Breaking of families will come in many instances and places - brother against brother against sister against parents;

7 FIRES AND LIGHTNINGS - Fires will continue to wreck destruction all over the world, and lightning will demand quite a toll of human lives;

8 DROUGHT - Worldwide drought will plague mankind, with the obvious consequence of plant-and-crop shortage;

9 POPULATION EXPLOSION - Simultaneously, population will explode all over the globe, causing great turmoil;

10 UNPRECEDENTED SORROW - Unprecedented sorrow will rock the whole world in the second or third month of 1980;

11 ALIENATION FROM GOD - People will become alienated from God due to the fact that their prayers and supplications, which are all self-serving, will not be heeded by Heaven;

12 MIGRATION OF WILD ANIMALS - People will be horribly concerned over the migration of wild animals to towns and urban places - a foreboding sign of an imminent famine in the Philippines;

13 INSANITY - Disease of the brain, or insanity, will prevail in 1980, 1981 until 1988, especially in the three superpower countries;

14 GOTACURAL DISEASE - A disease known as GOTACURAL will occur in epidemic proportions all over the land, and such disease will be incurable even by the known specialists of the medical profession;

15 WAR - The ambition and motivation for war will be perennial inducements among all races until such inducements are made manifest three years after 1979;

16 NAMELESS DISEASES - Nameless diseases will spread the cause of which will not be known, and such diseases will exact a heavy toll of human beings and work animals;

17 WORM PLAGUE - Worms of all kinds will plague crops and ricefields to destruction; all vegetation will be affected;

18 WOMEN'S LAX ON CHASTITY - Young, unmarried women lax on their chastity or virginity, will give rise to birth of illegitimate children, driving these women to commission of widespread infanticide;

19 REVOLT OF THE ELEMENTS - The revolt of the elements will take a record high in the years following until the arrival or birth of the so-called 'anti-Christ'.[/QUOTE]

 

[Loss Leader]

Would you like to know what will happen in the future? The spirit gave us many. There were 19 prophecies which were revealed on October 19, 1979 and published in a Sunday magazine supplement of a Manila daily newspaper. Twenty-seven years have passed so we can check if they have happened or not. One of them states: "A disease known as GOTACURAL will occur in epidemic proportions all over the land, and such disease will be incurable even by the known specialists of the medical profession." This disease turned out to be AIDS. Has a cure been found already?

PC - So, obviously these are some very vague prophesies (there will be bad weather; women will have sex), but one prophesy that is specific says that a disease known as GOTACURAL will occur. You claim that this disease is AIDS.

But even you must acknowledge that the word "Gotacural" is not the word "AIDS." You must agree that AIDS has never been known as Gotacural. So the one prophesy you point to as being right is ... wrong. It is wrong.

This thread is becoming a very sad sideshow.

 

[Moochie]

Sad sideshow, indeed. Yet there is a possibility of testing the "spirit voice" claim.

That would make it a less-sad sideshow.

M.

 

[webfusion]

Dear Webfusion and my Fellowmen,
May 23, 33 BC is equivalent to Sivan 10, 3728 in the Jewish calendar. It was a Thursday.
August 17, 1 BC is equivalent to Av 30, 3760 in the Jewish calendar. It was also a Thursday.

Did the spirit tell you these dates?

 

[fuelair]

Dear Loss Leader and my Fellowmen,



True, it is summertime in Israel in August. It also means that the day is not only hot but long that the Jewish Sabbath came later than 6 PM and people can stay outdoor longer.

The revelation of a crucifixion on August 17 defies the usually-accepted date sometime in March or April. That is why we have to test if the revelation is correct.

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

You seem to be either misunderstanding the point or evading the point.
What PROVES absolutely and without doubt that the dates you or the "spirits are about to speak" state are correct? The fact that a good scholar can use bits of data correlated to each other to fix an approximate 30 year range is not evidence/proof of anything. Only specific proof (which your or spirits statements, historians approximations, untestable time -approximate texts etc. cannot give) complete and inarguably accurate could win the prize - if acceptable. Nothing you have said addresses that in the slightest way.

 

[sbernie87]

Dear Forum-members,

I have lived in a cave all of my life. A spirit revealed to me that the sky is blue. Is that claim correct, forum-members? If so, can it be scientifically tested? I'd like to apply for the million dollar challenge. The spirit revealed itself on one of my old vinyl records, if that helps.

Peace and love and things.

 

[Dumb All Over]

Dear Forum-members,

I have lived in a cave all of my life. A spirit revealed to me that the sky is blue. Is that claim correct, forum-members? If so, can it be scientifically tested? I'd like to apply for the million dollar challenge. The spirit revealed itself on one of my old vinyl records, if that helps.

Peace and love and things.

Dear sbernie87 and FellowWhatevers,

Sorry Bernie, this is not true. Better stay in your cave. Only Captain and Tennille records will reveal the real truth.

Best regards, and thank you for your continued support,
DAO

 

[sbernie87]

Dear Dumb all Over and other Family Friends,

I never much cared for captain and tenille. Surely, one revelation cannot hold monopoly over the truth? The revelation I speak of also claims that "the sun is up." Can this be tested? Remember i live in a cave, and i could not have possibly known this to be true.

Thank you and prosperity to everyone and stuff.

 

[Dumb All Over]

Dear Bernie and Fellow Wombats,

There is no truth to be discerned from listening to the soundtrack of "Annie."

Best regards, and thank you for your continued haggis,
DAO

 

[sbernie87]

Hahaha... I was thinking of the Beatles, "Dear Prudence." But, just thinking about that cheery red-headed scamp made me smile.

 

[Psiload]

So, here are all 19 of the Manila prophesies. Prepare, people, to have your socks literally blown off.



2. UNNATURAL AND UNBELIEVABLE OCCURRENCES - The world will witness a number of unnatural and unbelievable occurrences, which are nevertheless true. For one, certain infants will be born with fully-grown hair and a complete set of adult teeth. Scared by this phenomenon, mothers of these infants will be driven to getting rid of such offspring. This is one Providential notice of displeasure over mankind 's waning regard for the Kingdom of God.

3 PEOPLE'S RELATIONSHIP - Peoples' relationship with one another will take a bad turn and cause universal unrest;

4 CONFUSION OF WORSHIP - There will be worldwide confusion of worship caused by a lot of religious distortions by pseudo preachers for self-gain;

5 SIGNIFICANT REVELATIONS FROM HEAVEN - Heaven will make certain significant revelations which, however, will escape peoples' notice due to their engrossment in self-centered activities;

6 BREAK-UP OF FAMILIES - Breaking of families will come in many instances and places - brother against brother against sister against parents;

7 FIRES AND LIGHTNINGS - Fires will continue to wreck destruction all over the world, and lightning will demand quite a toll of human lives;

8 DROUGHT - Worldwide drought will plague mankind, with the obvious consequence of plant-and-crop shortage;

9 POPULATION EXPLOSION - Simultaneously, population will explode all over the globe, causing great turmoil;

10 UNPRECEDENTED SORROW - Unprecedented sorrow will rock the whole world in the second or third month of 1980;

11 ALIENATION FROM GOD - People will become alienated from God due to the fact that their prayers and supplications, which are all self-serving, will not be heeded by Heaven;

12 MIGRATION OF WILD ANIMALS - People will be horribly concerned over the migration of wild animals to towns and urban places - a foreboding sign of an imminent famine in the Philippines;

13 INSANITY - Disease of the brain, or insanity, will prevail in 1980, 1981 until 1988, especially in the three superpower countries;

14 GOTACURAL DISEASE - A disease known as GOTACURAL will occur in epidemic proportions all over the land, and such disease will be incurable even by the known specialists of the medical profession;

15 WAR - The ambition and motivation for war will be perennial inducements among all races until such inducements are made manifest three years after 1979;

16 NAMELESS DISEASES - Nameless diseases will spread the cause of which will not be known, and such diseases will exact a heavy toll of human beings and work animals;

17 WORM PLAGUE - Worms of all kinds will plague crops and ricefields to destruction; all vegetation will be affected;

18 WOMEN'S LAX ON CHASTITY - Young, unmarried women lax on their chastity or virginity, will give rise to birth of illegitimate children, driving these women to commission of widespread infanticide;

19 REVOLT OF THE ELEMENTS - The revolt of the elements will take a record high in the years following until the arrival or birth of the so-called 'anti-Christ'.

I have gotten more accurate, and better detailed prophesies from fortune cookies.

 

[fuelair]

I have gotten more accurate, and better detailed prophesies from fortune cookies.

What happens when Christ and the Anti-Christ meet? I know it's not on my list of things to pay Ticketasster for!!

 

[Loss Leader]

Of the 19:

1. VIOLENT WEATHER

Normal and natural;

2. UNNATURAL AND UNBELIEVABLE OCCURRENCES - Certain infants will be born with fully-grown hair and a complete set of adult teeth.

Normal and natural.


3 PEOPLE'S RELATIONSHIP

Status quo since 1979

4 CONFUSION OF WORSHIP

Status quo since 1979

5 SIGNIFICANT REVELATIONS FROM HEAVEN -

Utterly untestable

6 BREAK-UP OF FAMILIES

Status quo

7 FIRES AND LIGHTNINGS -

Normal and natural

8 DROUGHT

Normal and natural

9 POPULATION EXPLOSION

Status quo (the expected rise from 1979)

10 UNPRECEDENTED SORROW

Did not come to pass.

11 ALIENATION FROM GOD

Untestable

12 MIGRATION OF WILD ANIMALS

Status quo (expected due to population increase)

13 INSANITY

Did not come to pass (no great increase in 1980 or drop off in 1989)

14 GOTACURAL DISEASE

Did not come to pass

15 WAR - The ambition and motivation for war will be perennial inducements among all races until such inducements are made manifest three years after 1979;

Status quo and/or what the hell does this mean?

16 NAMELESS DISEASES

Normal and natural

17 WORM PLAGUE

Did not come to pass

18 WOMEN'S LAX ON CHASTITY

Did not come to pass (society has gotten progressively More chaste since 1979)

19 REVOLT OF THE ELEMENTS

Did not come to pass.

I got 5 weather-related predictions that were all normal and natural; 6 human-relations predictions that were all status quo (or expected) from 1979; 6 predictions that did not happen and 2 untestable predictions about the spirit world.

Seriously. Seriously.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Dear Webfusion and my Fellowmen,

Did the spirit tell you these dates?

As I have written earlier, the spirit revealed only August 17 and May 23. But from one sermon, I deduced that He was referring to a 1 BC crucifixion and death of Jesus. Hence, the complete date is August 17, 1 BC.

The Jewish dates were derived using calendar converters, such as the Perpetual Jewish/Civil Calendar Conversion by Alan D. Corre, and Yet Another Calendar Converter by Timothy James Forsythe.

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

 

[Jackalgirl]

The dates are just two of His revelations. And we can check these out. However, if you suggest that audio tape recording the voice of a spirit is more acceptable to JREF, I will gladly oblige. What is the consensus of the members? I understand that communicating with a spirit is paranormal.

I also think you'd have a much better claim by trying to demonstrate that the voice on the tape is paranormal than by trying to somehow prove that the dates given to you are correct. I don't believe that there are any "scientific" ways to prove that, since the available data and research appears to be all over the map. Your point is that your dates are radically different from what's available; there is no way to prove this, really, without making a lot of suppositions (or going back in time). Edited to add: although "scientific" covers a lot of different sciences, in the context of the JREF Challenge it means something that can be demonstrated in an observable test.

So I agree that approaching the "voice on tape == paranormally-obtained recording" would be a much better way to go, and that's what I recommend. I'm not, of course, speaking for JREF, Jeff Wagg, Randi, etc. It's just my opinion, based on what I've read of the Challenge Application section. So I personally think you should drop the Jesus/date issue altogether and come up with a new plan.

However, the dates are just examples of what He told us and which we can put to a test if correct.

This is EXTREMELY interesting, and you are entirely correct: other statements (depending on their nature) are supremely testable. Can you give us examples of what other things the spirit can/does/is willing to tell you?

P.S. Maybe just a nitpick, but I'm not a man. Nor do I buy the argument that "men" is gender neutral. These days, it's not, unless used in a period quote, imho.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Dear Loss Leader, Psiload, and my Fellowmen,

Thank you for posting the list of 19 prophecies in the Forum. I just hope that the members will not “have their socks literally blown off.”

Thanks also to Psiload for finding the website. Yes, that is the website that lists the 19 prophecies that the spirit revealed in 1979.

PC - So, obviously these are some very vague prophesies (there will be bad weather; women will have sex), but one prophesy that is specific says that a disease known as GOTACURAL will occur. You claim that this disease is AIDS.

But even you must acknowledge that the word "Gotacural" is not the word "AIDS." You must agree that AIDS has never been known as Gotacural. So the one prophesy you point to as being right is ... wrong. It is wrong.

This thread is becoming a very sad sideshow.

I claim that the GOTACURAL disease is AIDS. Did you know that in 1982 when I first got hold of the prophecies, I was looking for a disease called GOTACURAL? AIDS was not named AIDS then. But there was a great concern because of its mystery, its rapid spread and its being lethal. About later that year, the disease was named AIDS. In 1984, I haven’t still encountered a disease known as GOTACURAL. This was when I began to suspect that GOTACURAL may be AIDS. My first clue was GOT in the name GOTACURAL which is synonymous to “acquired.” AIDS, as we know it now, is a disease that is acquired, hence, the name. AIDS is the acronym of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome.

After GOT, is ACUR. I came to the conclusion that this must mean “without cure,” just like asymmetrical meaning without symmetry, or amoral meaning without moral. The prefix A in a word means “not” or “without.”

The last part in the name GOTACURAL is AL. AL is a suffix meaning “relating to” or “characterized by” like in directional, fictional, hormonal, organizational, spectral, tidal. Therefore, GOTACURAL is a disease characterized by being acquired and without cure. Doesn’t AIDS perfectly fit this description of the name GOTACURAL? It does. And it is spot on!

In 1986, I asked the spirit if the disease He named GOTACURAL in 1979 is AIDS. He answered in the affirmative. I asked if there will be any cure. He replied in the negative. So, no matter how much research will be put into finding a cure for AIDS, I am sorry to say that a cure will never be found.

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

 

[Jackalgirl]

My first clue was GOT in the name GOTACURAL which is synonymous to “acquired.” AIDS, as we know it now, is a disease that is acquired, hence, the name. AIDS is the acronym of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome.

After GOT, is ACUR. I came to the conclusion that this must mean “without cure,” just like asymmetrical meaning without symmetry, or amoral meaning without moral. The prefix A in a word means “not” or “without.”

The last part in the name GOTACURAL is AL. AL is a suffix meaning “relating to” or “characterized by” like in directional, fictional, hormonal, organizational, spectral, tidal. Therefore, GOTACURAL is a disease characterized by being acquired and without cure. Doesn’t AIDS perfectly fit this description of the name GOTACURAL? It does. And it is spot on!

You're going to run into a lot of skepticism on this. The reason being is that human beings are intrinsically the most powerful pattern-seeking machines on Earth. We are instinctively built to find pattern in things. As Scott McCloud pointed out in the fabulous book "Understanding Comics", you can (for example) draw any kind of distorted blobby shape, but if you put a circle with a dot in it ANYwhere in that blobby shape, most people will construct a fact out of the drawing.

What you are doing here is a case of pattern-seeking. GOTACURAL isn't AIDS, so you will find a way to make it AIDS by looking for patterns. Also, it's typical for people to ignore the misses in favor of the hits. You've gone through a great deal of misses to prove this one point -- that GOTACURAL means AIDS -- but so many of the other prophecies are total misses.

This is extremely typical behaviour and is a stellar example of how human beings are so incredibly good at pulling pattern out of perceived chaos.

Unfortunately, all that aside, it just isn't good enough to satisfy the terms of the JREF Challenge. The information that your spirit provides is going to have to be uneviquocable -- there must be no explanation necessary. The information will have to be something like: "On May 15, 2007, at 3:05am local time, there will be an earthquake of magnitiude 7.2 on the Richter Scale centered at sea 75 miles northeast of the Japanese island of Hokkaido; although a tsumani warning will go out, the highest wave level that will be recorded, along the northeast coast of Hokkaido, will be 18 inches."

The data you provide MUST NOT BE subject to interpretation. It must be in black & white to qualify for the challenge.

 

[Jackalgirl]

Oh, by the way, there are all kinds of diseases that are acquired and are without cure. The "acquired" part of AIDS refers to the "Immune Deficency" part. That is, that the major effect of AIDS is that you acquire an immune system that can no longer fight of basic infections, which is why most AIDS patients who die don't die of AIDS, but rather of secondary infections they can't fight off because their immune system is compromised. The "acquired" part of AIDS does NOT refer to the fact that the disease is acquired -- most diseases are.

I don't say this to get into an argument with you about your interpretation, but rather to point out that this kind of interpretation will not result in your proving anything except that people can argue, ad infinitum, about anything.

You need to turn your focus onto something that can be demonstrably proven without the need for explanation or interpretation.

 

[webfusion]

As I have written earlier, the spirit revealed only August 17 and May 23. But from one sermon, I deduced that He was referring to a 1 BC crucifixion and death of Jesus. Hence, the complete date is August 17, 1 BC.

The Jewish dates were derived using calendar converters, such as the Perpetual Jewish/Civil Calendar Conversion by Alan D. Corre, and Yet Another Calendar Converter by Timothy James Forsythe.

I thought so.

Why didn't you ask the spirit, instead of consulting Forsythe & Corre?

I am extremely skeptical about you having any special ability to contact and obtain detailed information from a spirit, and this just adds to my skepticism.

I'm sure you understand that the only way you can win a Million from the JREF is to place your claim in the context of being able to communicate and obtain detailed obscure information from your spirit, which can then be confirmed.
Anything else is unacceptable, IMO.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Dear Jackalgirl and my Fellowmen,

Please don’t be offended if I use “fellowmen.” I am not sexist. I understand that “fellowmen” is a mass noun applicable to and include both men and women. Which do you think is better—fellowmen or fellow human beings?

Thank you very much for your recommendation. It is good to discuss first which is acceptable to the JREF challenge than going to it straight away. Did you know that it would cost me 80 Australian dollars just to have the document notarized? And I don’t want to waste such hard-earned money if it turned out that my challenge is unacceptable.

I have presented the dates in other forums but the people there may not be as critical thinkers as you are in this Forum. Another is, I found out lately that there is a one million US dollars at stake to prove that one possesses a psychic, paranormal, or supernatural power. Hence, this inquiry in the Forum.

What are examples of what He can/does/is willing to tell us? So many things, especially on the life and teachings of Jesus. He also gives prophecies, like the three-eyed babies (plural) which will be born and the coming World War III which will greatly reduce the number of people in this world. Please visit my website to know more of what He told us. I have not translated to English many of the sermons yet. I also have not uploaded yet other sermons from copies of tape recordings of sessions that I have. (Other listeners have more comprehensive collection and from earlier sessions before I became a listener in 1983.)

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo