Brexit: Now What? Part III

[McHrozni]

It certainly seems that way.

The over-riding concern of leave voters was to reduce immigration to the UK.

https://www.ipsos-mori.com/research...op-issue-for-voters-in-the-EU-referendum.aspx

No, it wasn't an over-riding concern. It was the concern mentioned by a plurality of voters prior to the referendum.

You know what else was just as important? British economy. Plus ability to travel freely to the EU, ability to trade with members of the EU, impact on services and impact on jobs.

All of those combined override immigration by approximately 2:1.

McHrozni

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

No, it wasn't an over-riding concern. It was the concern mentioned by a plurality of voters prior to the referendum.

You know what else was just as important? British economy. Plus ability to travel freely to the EU, ability to trade with members of the EU, impact on services and impact on jobs.

All of those combined override immigration by approximately 2:1.

McHrozni

Which polls are you referring to?

Ability to travel freely to the Eu is not at threat nor was it on anyone's list of main concerns let alone leave voters.

Immigration has been repeatedly shown to be a primary motivator of leave voters. Even the loathesome Nick Clegg last night couldn't bring himself to call it anything other than a problem and he is Pro EU.

Its clear that the people of England and Wales wish to cut the number of foreign people living in their nations. On the other hand the SNP are the only pro immigration voice showing once again why the only workable long term solution for Scotland is a separate arrangement with Europe via independence.

 

[McHrozni]

Which polls are you referring to?

All information is from your link.

Ability to travel freely to the Eu is not at threat nor was it on anyone's list of main concerns let alone leave voters.

Your link puts it at 5% of all voters. That's not a percentage you can safely ignore.

Immigration has been repeatedly shown to be a primary motivator of leave voters.

It motivated the plurality of voters, it is as important to voters as impact on economy is, and the other concerns override immigration by a factor of 2:1. This is all from your link.

Immigration is not the overreaching anything.

McHrozni

 

[The Don]

Which polls are you referring to?

Ability to travel freely to the Eu is not at threat nor was it on anyone's list of main concerns let alone leave voters.

Isn't it ? We have no idea whether it is or not - we don't even know whether our government considers the ability to travel freely to the EU is something worth fighting for.

Of course it's almost certain that the EU won't make the UK like African countries where every visit requires a day off work to get a visa and that visa is good for one visit only. That said, it's not impossible that things will become less convenient with people in the UK having to stand in the "non-EU passports" line with all that entails in terms of wasted time and the same foe EU tourists coming to the UK with all that may entail for UK tourism

Immigration has been repeatedly shown to be a primary motivator of leave voters. Even the loathesome Nick Clegg last night couldn't bring himself to call it anything other than a problem and he is Pro EU.

I personally think that a majority of Leave voters made that choice fully or in part in the mistaken belief that it will reduce net immigration but I'm not sure it's as clear cut as you intimate

Its clear that the people of England and Wales wish to cut the number of foreign people living in their nations.

It is ?

A small majority in each case voted in favour of leaving but it's not clear about the motivation for that Leave vote. In the Welsh valleys it could have been a protest vote against the current political establishment and the fact that the local economy is dying on its feet (and yet the 45 minute commute to the Cardiff area where there are plenty of employment opportunities is unthinkable) than it is an anti immigrant vote (unless that's anti English immigration of course ).

A lot of Welsh farmers voted leave in the (almost certainly mistaken) belief that leaving the EU would result in a golden age for Welsh farming where subsidies would continue at their current, or higher, levels and the prices they receive would soar (and all regulations would miraculously disappear). For them immigration didn't come into it.

On the other hand the SNP are the only pro immigration voice showing once again why the only workable long term solution for Scotland is a separate arrangement with Europe via independence.

 

[Worm]

The first attempted Brexit didn't go well, either. That one was led by Queen Boudica who tried and failed and, as a result, was flogged and her daughters raped.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica

Just a note that, to my reading at least, those details are reversed.

Boudica wasn't punished for a failed rebellion; Boudica led a rebellion, at least partly, as a result of her punishment. The 'punishment' was more of an attack due to the fact that her husband (The King) had left his kingdom jointly to his daughters and the Roman emperor when he died, which was not really well received by the Emperor (Claudius).

 

[The Don]

Some interesting quotes from David Davis on BBC Question Time.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39407039

Immigration should rise and fall depending on the UK's needs after it has left the EU, the Brexit secretary says.

David Davis said a "sustainable" system would take into account the needs of the NHS and different industries.

I'd need to see evidence that the immigration system that we have as a result of being EU members is "unsustainable" but putting that to one side, this is a clear indication that, contrary to some of the rhetoric during the campaign, significant levels of net immigration are vital to the UK economy.

Mr Davis said the new system would be "properly managed".
It would be for the home secretary to decide the system to be used, he said, but added: "I cannot imagine that the policy will be anything other than that which is in the national interest.

We already have complete control over 50% of our net immigration. If this system is good then why do we have an issue ? If this system is bad, how will be suddenly become expert once we leave the EU ?

He also said the government had a "huge contingency plan" for the UK leaving the EU without a deal.

What an interesting, very Trumpist, adjective to use

I'd have preferred "comprehensive" or maybe even "carefully thought through" but "huge" to me sounds like they've haven't a clue what to do so they'll try a bit of everything

IMO the UK is shamefully under-prepared for Brexit. We're like a pupil who hasn't been paying attention in class and hasn't prepared for the exam but we're convinced that we'll be able to blag our way through with a combination of a few notes squirrelled inside our pencil case and creatively working the wording of the question into our answer - it won't work

 

[McHrozni]

Brexiteers in government have switched gears from "full speed ahead" to "backpedal, full flank".

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...threat-to-leave-with-no-deal-say-eu-diplomats

No deal option is off the desk, ECJ jurisdiction will stay for a while yet, they also intend to stay in the customs union temporarily, immigration limit is on the way up ...

Quite stunning for a few days. Give this a few more years and we might yet see some sanity in the form of EEA membership.

McHrozni

 

[Tolls]

We have "My Little Pony" but we don't have "My Little Bovine/Chicken/Porker/whatever".

I refer the right honourable gentleman to Peppa Pig (snort), whose friends cover the full range of animals, both eaten and not. I think chickens might be missing, though.

 

[abaddon]

I refer the right honourable gentleman to Peppa Pig (snort), whose friends cover the full range of animals, both eaten and not. I think chickens might be missing, though.

That's just temporarily stored bacon.

 

[Tolls]

That's just temporarily stored bacon.

 

[The Don]

Brexiteers in government have switched gears from "full speed ahead" to "backpedal, full flank".

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...threat-to-leave-with-no-deal-say-eu-diplomats

No deal option is off the desk, ECJ jurisdiction will stay for a while yet, they also intend to stay in the customs union temporarily, immigration limit is on the way up ...

Quite stunning for a few days. Give this a few more years and we might yet see some sanity in the form of EEA membership.

McHrozni

Then again a couple of headlines in the right wing press and we could be back at square one

 

[McHrozni]

Then again a couple of headlines in the right wing press and we could be back at square one

This is mentioned:

“It is not possible to overestimate the threat the UK press poses to reaching a deal. We have to counteract that by being open,” said one diplomat.

How do you call a politician who covers in fear of a few reporters spewing BS? Coward or idiot?

McHrozni

 

[Craig B]

This is mentioned:

“It is not possible to overestimate the threat the UK press poses to reaching a deal. We have to counteract that by being open,” said one diplomat.

How do you call a politician who covers in fear of a few reporters spewing BS? Coward or idiot?

McHrozni

How do you call a politician who acknowledges the existence of a threat, and resolves to counteract it by promoting openness?

 

[McHrozni]

How do you call a politician who acknowledges the existence of a threat, and resolves to counteract it by promoting openness?

Liberal?

Technical detail: the politician in question was Theresa May, not the unnamed diplomat.

McHrozni

 

[Craig B]

Liberal?

Technical detail: the politician in question was Theresa May, not the unnamed diplomat.

McHrozni

Thank you. I didn't realise that.

 

[The Don]

Meanwhile pro-Brexit MPs are sticking their fingers in ears and going "lalalala" as they walk out of a commons select committee which is investigating the likely impact of Brexit - apparently the findings are "too gloomy"

A number of Brexit-backing MPs walked out of a private meeting of the Commons Brexit Select Committee in protest at a report they claimed was "too gloomy".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39417715

I hope that bravely running away isn't the negotiating approach favoured by our own Brave Sir Robins in charge of the Brexit negotiations...

 

[3point14]

Meanwhile pro-Brexit MPs are sticking their fingers in ears and going "lalalala" as they walk out of a commons select committee which is investigating the likely impact of Brexit - apparently the findings are "too gloomy"



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39417715

I hope that bravely running away isn't the negotiating approach favoured by our own Brave Sir Robins in charge of the Brexit negotiations...

From the same people that brought you 'The less educated make better decisions because they're not subject to groupthink' and 'The BBC are mean for not reporting all the wonderful things about the UK leaving the EU despite the fact there aren't any'


Bunch of spineless, unprincipled, selfish idiots.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I refer the right honourable gentleman to Peppa Pig (snort), whose friends cover the full range of animals, both eaten and not. I think chickens might be missing, though.

In the US there is Cow and Chicken.

 

[Craig B]

BBC news page some minutes ago: "MSPs voted by 69 to 59 in favour of seeking permission for a referendum before the UK leaves the EU."
That's exactly the 63 SNP and 6 Greens for.
And all the other parties have a combined total of 59 MSPs.

 

[Degeneve]

Theresa May has now signed the letter activating the Article 50 procedure. The letter is expected to be given to Donald Tusk tomorrow morning...