Brexit: Now What? Part III

[Amazer]

There's nothing about keeping same number of people employed there...

I think that the surface area of office space they are looking for should give a fair idea how many people they are planning on moving in there. And how many fall by the wayside.

 

[Craig B]

Interesting data on the different voting patterns in this BBC report.

 

[jimbob]

Interesting data on the different voting patterns in this BBC report.

It includes this gem

The former campaign director of Vote Leave, Dominic Cummings, argues that the better educated are more prone to holding irrational political opinions because they are more driven by fashion and a group mentality.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Interesting data on the different voting patterns in this BBC report.

I like that the only leave voters they could find in Scotland were pissed off fishermen. let's see how they like Theresa's brand of concern.

 

[Craig B]

Interesting suggestion in the Daily Record.

A report to the Euro Parliament highlights a paper by constitutional expert Brendan O’Leary and was published by the London School of Economics. He wrote: “Northern Ireland and Scotland could remain within the EU, at least pending the resolution of their UK status via a border poll (Northern Ireland) or an independence referendum (Scotland).​

In a similar context various historians are now reminding Scots and other EU citizens of a historically earlier Scottish attempt to sustain a trading partnership with Europe in the face of English hostility: the letter sent by the leaders of the Scottish army to Hamburg and Lübeck in 1297, following the first military success at Stirling.

The document was found in the Lübeck records in 1820. In 1945 it was taken to the USSR with the rest of the city archives. These were returned to Lübeck in 1990.

Andrew de Moray and William Wallace, leaders of the Scottish army, and the community of the same kingdom, send to the prudent and discreet men, our good friends, the senate and commons of Luebeck and of Hamburg, greetings and a continuous increase of sincere affection.

We have been informed by trustworthy merchants of the said kingdom of Scotland, that you on your own part have been friendly and helpful in counsel and deed in all things and enterprises concerning us and our merchants, even though we did not merit this. We are therefore the more beholden to you, and wishing to prove our gratitude in a worthy manner we ask you to make it known among your merchants that they can now have a safe access with their merchandise to all harbours of the Kingdom of Scotland because the Kingdom of Scotland has, by the grace of God, been by war recovered from the power of the English. Farewell. Given at Haddington in Scotland on the eleventh day of October in the Year of Grace one thousand two hundred and ninety seven.

We also pray you to be good enough to further the business of John Burnet and John Frere, our merchants, just as you might wish that we should further the business of your merchants. Farewell.​

The Hamburg copy was a victim of the 1943 air raids.

 

[Planigale]

Will there be an Asterix book as well, about a Brexit from the Roman Empire?

That actually happened by the way, in 286 AD, performed by a ruler named Carausius^WP who declared himself Emperor of Britain. Alas things didn't work out very well.

He held power for seven years, before being assassinated by his finance minister​

Soon after that, Britain returned to its previous allegiance.

Well strictly speaking the Brexit was by the Romans from Britain. But why spoil a poor analogy with facts?

 

[Planigale]

The first attempted Brexit didn't go well, either. That one was led by Queen Boudica who tried and failed and, as a result, was flogged and her daughters raped.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica

Everyone knows redheads have a temper!

 

[Planigale]

Interesting data on the different voting patterns in this BBC report.

Ireland I believe used to give an extra vote to graduates. I am too lazy to check whether this is still the case.

 

[Craig B]

Well strictly speaking the Brexit was by the Romans from Britain. But why spoil a poor analogy with facts?

You mean that it is not a fact that Carausius declared himself Emperor of Britain in AD 286?

 

[Rolfe]

Andrew de Moray and William Wallace, leaders of the Scottish army...

Small digression.

I remember back in 2005 when this newcomer burst into the Wimbledon men's singles, a gawky kid at that time playing under the name of Andrew Murray. I turned to my mother and said, wow, that is one hell of a name to have to live up to!

I now have a piece of artwork depicting Andy Murray dressed in the armour of the late 13th century. It's a head-and-shoulders thing and when you look closely at what at first sight seems to be the hilt of a sword he appears to be holding point-down, you realise it's actually the handle of a tennis racquet.

I have no idea what Andy Murray would think of the thing.

I was quite moved when he spoke of his upset in the weeks before the 2014 referendum when there was so much pressure on him from speculation on both sides. He was of course being firmly told by his handlers that he must not on any account reveal that he was supportive of independence for fear of the backlash from English tennis fans. A casual joke made to Tim Henman back in 2006 had been used ever since to demonise him as a hater of the English and the btl comments sections of the BBC and other sports articles (and Twitter) are full of English tennis fans calling him a "Jock ****" and fervently hoping that anyone but him wins Wimbledon.

At the same time the Scottish cyclist Chris Hoy came out in support of the union and was used by the Better Together campaign, and was generally feted for this. Union supporters were digging up pictures of Murray with a union flag (which of course he carries quite frequently, he plays for the British team!) and insisting that the shy lad was a union supporter who was simply afraid of the backlash from these horrible nats if he revealed this.

Murray came out (rather obliquely) for independence early in the morning of the polling day itself, on Twitter, far too late for any publicity about it. He later spoke about how torn he'd felt about not being able to say anything, and indeed being unable to sleep for worrying about not being able to indicate his feelings on the issue - a worry that seems not to have troubled Chris Hoy for five seconds.

Murray has never mentioned the coincidence of having such an illustrious namesake, but I sometimes wonder if he thinks about him.

ETA: Sorry, when I was typing that I was under the impression that these posts were in the indyref2 thread. If anyone wants to take this topic further I think it should go into that thread.

 

[catsmate]

Ireland I believe used to give an extra vote to graduates. I am too lazy to check whether this is still the case.

Eh, no. I suggest you look into the history of the University Constituencies.

 

[Craig B]

Ireland I believe used to give an extra vote to graduates. I am too lazy to check whether this is still the case.

When you have summoned the energy to check, you will find that university constituencies were a Scottish invention, introduced into England and Ireland under the Stuart monarchs.

In the 1918 election, which was a landslide victory for Sinn Fein, Southern Unionists were returned only in two Irish constituencies, Rathmines and University of Dublin. That says little for the intelligence of graduates in that city.

Universities ceased to be represented in the Dail in 1937, [ETA. Please note that "under the Electoral Act 1923 voters registered in a university constituency were not permitted to also vote in a geographical one.", so they had no "extra vote".] but still have two seats in the Seanad, a situation opposed by Socialists and Greens in the Republic.

 

[Planigale]

When you have summoned the energy to check, you will find that university constituencies were a Scottish invention, introduced into England and Ireland under the Stuart monarchs.

In the 1918 election, which was a landslide victory for Sinn Fein, Southern Unionists were returned only in two Irish constituencies, Rathmines and University of Dublin. That says little for the intelligence of graduates in that city.

Universities ceased to be represented in the Dail in 1937, [ETA. Please note that "under the Electoral Act 1923 voters registered in a university constituency were not permitted to also vote in a geographical one.", so they had no "extra vote".] but still have two seats in the Seanad, a situation opposed by Socialists and Greens in the Republic.

Thank you for providing me with the facts.

 

[Planigale]

You mean that it is not a fact that Carausius declared himself Emperor of Britain in AD 286?

And Gaul (he was from what one would now call Belgium) so it was also a Frexit.

A surprising number of roman emperors had a power base in Britain, I am not sure why a small overseas province seems to have had a disproportionate impact on the imperium. One explanation might be that it was an important source of silver, the foundation of the Roman currency.

 

[The Don]

Looks like the PM is starting to bang the "patriotism" drum....

She will say "the strength and stability" of the UK's union will "become even more important" as Britain leaves the EU - and the "one overarching goal" of her post-Brexit plan is "to build a more united nation".

"A more united nation means working actively to bring people and communities together by promoting policies which support integration and social cohesion," she will add.

"In Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland that means fully respecting, and indeed strengthening, the devolution settlements. But never allowing our Union to become looser and weaker, or our people to drift apart."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39399390

Perhaps a diamond-hard Brexit isn't the best way of going about that Theresa

 

[McHrozni]

Looks like the PM is starting to bang the "patriotism" drum....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39399390

Perhaps a diamond-hard Brexit isn't the best way of going about that Theresa

There is also a small paragraph about Labour being unusually pathetic.

Meanwhile, shadow Brexit secretary Keir Starmer has said Labour will not support any Brexit deal unless it meets the party's "six tests".

Any deal must include a strong relationship with the EU and the exact same benefits the UK has from the single market, he said.

Uhm, yeah. If they wanted that then maybe it wasn't such a great idea to support the Brexit bill wholeheartedly from day one.

McHrozni

 

[The Don]

There is also a small paragraph about Labour being unusually pathetic.

Meanwhile, shadow Brexit secretary Keir Starmer has said Labour will not support any Brexit deal unless it meets the party's "six tests".

Any deal must include a strong relationship with the EU and the exact same benefits the UK has from the single market, he said.

Uhm, yeah. If they wanted that then maybe it wasn't such a great idea to support the Brexit bill wholeheartedly from day one.

McHrozni

Yes, the "six tests" really are absolutely pathetic. IMO the Labour Party should be ashamed about the way in which they have failed to look after the interests of the people they claim to represent. They are still labouring (no pun intended) under the misapprehension that they will somehow influence the Brexit deal. As you have repeatedly pointed out, their post-referendum support for Brexit has more-or-less ensured that this will not be the case.

 

[McHrozni]

Yes, the "six tests" really are absolutely pathetic. IMO the Labour Party should be ashamed about the way in which they have failed to look after the interests of the people they claim to represent. They are still labouring (no pun intended) under the misapprehension that they will somehow influence the Brexit deal. As you have repeatedly pointed out, their post-referendum support for Brexit has more-or-less ensured that this will not be the case.

Yeah, and as I have also repeatedly pointed out, their post-referendum support for Brexit also precludes Labour from obtaining any political benefits once the costs begin to become visible.

To put it more eloquently, Corbyn makes Chamberlain look a real visionary and a strategic genius. The mistakes Chamberlain made had some potential and intent to avert destruction but didn't, Corbyn makes mistakes that have exactly zero chance of bringing benefit to either his country or his party.

McHrozni

 

[The Don]

Yeah, and as I have also repeatedly pointed out, their post-referendum support for Brexit also precludes Labour from obtaining any political benefits once the costs begin to become visible.

To put it more eloquently, Corbyn makes Chamberlain look a real visionary and a strategic genius. The mistakes Chamberlain made had some potential and intent to avert destruction but didn't, Corbyn makes mistakes that have exactly zero chance of bringing benefit to either his country or his party.

McHrozni

At least Chamberlain bought some time to allow re-armament and in particular the RAF fighter command to start to get its act together - or at least that's one suggestion. I cannot see Corbyn even having that kind of crumb of comfort to cling to.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Looks like the PM is starting to bang the "patriotism" drum....



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39399390

Perhaps a diamond-hard Brexit isn't the best way of going about that Theresa

Of course Theresa's version of respecting the devolved settlements is announcing Article 50 without telling anyone let alone consulting them, keeping powers returned from the EU in Westminster, promising to block a referendum and generally being a condescending idiot towards Scotland.