Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 6. Pick up sticks...

[Vixen]

The big difference is that if you are not happy with what a car dealer offers, to can check whether another one can make a better offer.

In the case at and, there is no alternative. You need to take what the car dealer offers you or have not car at all.

That is not true for May. She is a lousy negotiator. Negotiation is an art. The guys at ACAS have arbitrators with arbitration diplomas. It is knowing how to drive a hard bargain between, say, a rail union with striking members holding out for specific conditions against the bosses on behalf of the government 'refusing to budge'.

A good negotiator will hammer out a deal that is win-win for both sides.

May has no negotiating skill at all. She has sold the UK down the river (thank goodness for Gina Miller forcing her to have it approved by parliament first). She has brought about a 'lose-win' deal in the EU's favour. Of course they have approved it. What's not to approve? She has conceded at every possible juncture. She has made the fatal mistake of wanting to be liked. She has shown herself to be acquiescent and amenable when toughness and vision was needed. To try to cover up her deficient negotiations - if we can even call it that; 'surrender' is a better word - she makes matters worse by using dog-whistle racism in her appeal to the British public ('no more queue-jumping by EU nationals') and blatant lies.

Someone needs to give her Sun Tzu, The Art of War for Christmas. She sees herself as a latter day 'Iron Lady' Thatcher, when in reality May is a pushover five-quid slut in curlers who'll say, 'OK, I'll do it for a quid'.

 

[BobTheCoward]

That is not true for May. She is a lousy negotiator. Negotiation is an art. The guys at ACAS have arbitrators with arbitration diplomas. It is knowing how to drive a hard bargain between, say, a rail union with striking members holding out for specific conditions against the bosses on behalf of the government 'refusing to budge'.

A good negotiator will hammer out a deal that is win-win for both sides.

May has no negotiating skill at all. She has sold the UK down the river (thank goodness for Gina Miller forcing her to have it approved by parliament first). She has brought about a 'lose-win' deal in the EU's favour. Of course they have approved it. What's not to approve? She has conceded at every possible juncture. She has made the fatal mistake of wanting to be liked. She has shown herself to be acquiescent and amenable when toughness and vision was needed. To try to cover up her deficient negotiations - if we can even call it that; 'surrender' is a better word - she makes matters worse by using dog-whistle racism in her appeal to the British public ('no more queue-jumping by EU nationals') and blatant lies.

Someone needs to give her Sun Tzu, The Art of War for Christmas. She sees herself as a latter day 'Iron Lady' Thatcher, when in reality May is a pushover five-quid slut in curlers who'll say, 'OK, I'll do it for a quid'.

What is the actual evidence she is a bad negotiator?

 

[Vixen]

What is the actual evidence she is a bad negotiator?

Er, the deal she has hammered out puts the UK in a worse position than it is already in. It's like asking for a pay rise and accepting a pay cut.

She has thrown Northern Ireland and Gibraltar to the dogs whilst mouthing lies about doing things in the 'national interest'.

Never since Neville Chamberlain has Britain seen this level of appeasement. In Chamberlain's case it was understandable.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Er, the deal she has hammered out puts the UK in a worse position than it is already in. It's like asking for a pay rise and accepting a pay cut.

She has thrown Northern Ireland and Gibraltar to the dogs whilst mouthing lies about doing things in the 'national interest'.

Never since Neville Chamberlain has Britain seen this level of appeasement. In Chamberlain's case it was understandable.

It isn't self evident from a deal whether the negotiators were good or bad.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

The big difference is that if you are not happy with what a car dealer offers, to can check whether another one can make a better offer.

In the case at and, there is no alternative. You need to take what the car dealer offers you or have not car at all.

Not to mention that we have an (as yet) non binding agreement to part exchange our current, perfectly good car and a wad of cash for this crap heap, but the lying bastards who repeatedly and publicly assured us that we could swap our car for a Ferrari or a Buggatti, free insurance, no service costs ever and complimentary petrol for life keep screaming that we've made our decision to change cars and can't back out and anyway with the wonderful British weather why should we care about the hole in the roof, the floor, the broken window and the door that keeps falling off?

 

[Amazer]

Er, the deal she has hammered out puts the UK in a worse position than it is already in. It's like asking for a pay rise and accepting a pay cut.

Any deal you were going to get from the EU was going to put the UK in a worse position than it already had. It wouldn't have mattered even if you had the best negotiator in the world argueing your case.

She has thrown Northern Ireland and Gibraltar to the dogs whilst mouthing lies about doing things in the 'national interest'.

My guess is that May is acting in the national interest... my guess is that leaving without a deal would actually be worse then they have let on till now. For example the recent news: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6425479/Michael-Gove-backed-hearing-UK-run-drinking-water-DAYS-No-Deal.html
Leads me to believe that there are a considerable number of other issues which haven't been to the attention of the general public which would have considerable negative impact on the quality of life in the UK.

Never since Neville Chamberlain has Britain seen this level of appeasement. In Chamberlain's case it was understandable.

It very well might be understandable here too.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

That is not true for May. She is a lousy negotiator. Negotiation is an art. The guys at ACAS have arbitrators with arbitration diplomas. It is knowing how to drive a hard bargain between, say, a rail union with striking members holding out for specific conditions against the bosses on behalf of the government 'refusing to budge'.

A good negotiator will hammer out a deal that is win-win for both sides.

May has no negotiating skill at all. She has sold the UK down the river (thank goodness for Gina Miller forcing her to have it approved by parliament first). She has brought about a 'lose-win' deal in the EU's favour. Of course they have approved it. What's not to approve? She has conceded at every possible juncture. She has made the fatal mistake of wanting to be liked. She has shown herself to be acquiescent and amenable when toughness and vision was needed. To try to cover up her deficient negotiations - if we can even call it that; 'surrender' is a better word - she makes matters worse by using dog-whistle racism in her appeal to the British public ('no more queue-jumping by EU nationals') and blatant lies.

Someone needs to give her Sun Tzu, The Art of War for Christmas. She sees herself as a latter day 'Iron Lady' Thatcher, when in reality May is a pushover five-quid slut in curlers who'll say, 'OK, I'll do it for a quid'.

No, a brilliant negotiator would have maybe been able to hammer out a win-win deal.
If you're so fond of Sun-Tzu, maybe read up on what he has to say about breaking alliance to negotiate a better one when you are clearly in the weaker position.
Because THAT is the position the UK is dealing from.

 

[Degeneve]

Er, the deal she has hammered out puts the UK in a worse position than it is already in. It's like asking for a pay rise and accepting a pay cut.

As a matter of fact it is the Brexit vote that has put the UK in worse position that it is already in.

She just tried to limit the damage.

 

[KDLarsen]

If you're on twitter it's seriously worth following https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla

I can highly recommend her piece in today's Observer: Who is the real Nigel Farage... and why won't he answer my questions?

Plenty of questions asked, but one does suspect that Farage will go to great lengths to avoid having to answer them. And why.

 

[Strawberry]

How will England ever survive without the EU, oh noes!!!!

England will survive, but the UK probably won't.

 

[Nessie]

I think that the Brexit supporters who are demanding that there should be no second referendum should remember that;

1 - if the vote had been to remain, they would be campaigning for a second referendum.

2 - it was only 51.9% to 48.1% with many people not being fully aware of what the EU was and even more are unhappy with how Brexit has worked out so far.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

If it includes a customs and regulatory union then you eliminate the need for checks. If it doesn't then yes you probably can't.

Similarly for the movement of people.

Though I guess there are different levels of friction.

So I don't understand how can Brexiteers imagine there doesn't need to be a border?

 

[Nessie]

England will survive, but the UK probably won't.

I see a probable future of referendums every 20 or so years as we leave and rejoin the EU and the UK breaks of and reforms.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

As a matter of fact it is the Brexit vote that has put the UK in worse position that it is already in.

She just tried to limit the damage.

Indeed... people voted to be worse off and then complain that they are worse off.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

So I don't understand how can Brexiteers imagine there doesn't need to be a border?

Have you met a Brexiteer? Delusional would be an understatement

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

I see a probable future of referendums every 20 or so years as we leave and rejoin the EU and the UK breaks of and reforms.

Scotland would join that long list of countries that gained independence and regretted it and and tried to rejoin the parent union....

....that list being nobody ever.

 

[BobTheCoward]

There is a lot of speculation about what the remainers who voted want. Does the UK not have polls to resolve this speculation?

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

There is a lot of speculation about what the remainers who voted want. Does the UK not have polls to resolve this speculation?

Remainers wanted to stay in the EU.

 

[Vixen]

I think that the Brexit supporters who are demanding that there should be no second referendum should remember that;

1 - if the vote had been to remain, they would be campaigning for a second referendum.

2 - it was only 51.9% to 48.1% with many people not being fully aware of what the EU was and even more are unhappy with how Brexit has worked out so far.

It's worth remembering that when PM Edward Heath took the UK into what was then the EEC in the first place, he knew there was fierce opposition amongst MP's and it wouldn't get past the House of Commons. So he very cleverly put it to the public.

A tactic May is trying now - even to the extent of offering to appear in a TV debate, something she refused for the Referendum - only, she isn't stupid enough to let the public vote, knowing she'd be thoroughly trounced.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Do we know if most leave voters thought it would improve the economy?

The latest YouGov poll I've seen says half of Leave voters think No Deal would be good for Britain and a quarter think it would be bad. As you may imagine, the vast majority of Remain voters think No Deal would be bad.