Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

[kitakaze]

Blackdog, before I waste time on a longer post can you please take a good look at my post #7608 so as to discern what was addressed to Bobbie and what was addressed to you. That would take care of the obvious confusion you had.

 

[Blackdog]

I see it now. You were jumping back and forth between comments and questions for me and Bobbie.
This sentence confooseled me;

And back to Bobbie, in fairness, given the complete ridiculousness of JC/MG's claims, why have you not moved them to the hoax section?

I assumed you were talking to me in reference to Bobbie. Bobbie has supported the JC/MG claims in the past and it looked to me like you were asking me to move a discussion about it on BFD to hoaxes, where it most certainly belongs.

 

[kitakaze]

Nope no confusion, did you think there was?

Obviously there was, Blackdog.

I honestly don't care why you care about (or praise) any website, including the one I post on, maybe you give yourself too much credit for having an influence on other people.

Nice. And What exactly are you talking about? People in the thread you started weren't confused by our interaction with Bobbie?

I just posted Bobbies account of Noll bringing the SC to the funeral because I wanted to find out if it were true.

So that would make the second question reference nonsensical.

First question. Anyone who resorts to making up cute names for people they disagree with doesn't get a lot of respect from me, whether it's Roger Knights' names like scoftic, suitnik or the names thrown around here. I think that is an extremist position and a bit ad hom. It takes away from your stance by stooping to a level of intolerance and an unwillingness to try to understand your opposition's POV. There are extremists here and there are extremists on the other side. I honestly don't believe an intelligent person such as yourself believes otherwise.
But this is your forum and knock yourselves out, that's what you're here for. I haven't seen you on BFD telling us how we can, or should, talk over there. You asked and I'm responding to your question.
I like to maintain a middle of the road position and anyone who checks my posting history will know I've stepped on more than a few toes in the "bigfoot community" (I still hate that phrase). In fact I'm not even allowed to freely post at BFF without moderator review. I'm hardly what you would refer to as a "Woo".

Per my bolding I actually do know otherwise. In your long self-referential response and speech about labeling you ironically seemed to neglect qualifying your 'extremist' comment. Go figure.

Second question. I don't care who takes the subject over to BFF, or even is anyone does, maybe that's something you could take care of since you brought it up.

Well, as I pointed out since all you want is to get to the truth of the matter...

Third question. What would you like me to move to the hoaxing section on BFD? A thread that isn't there? Can you point it out to me? I must be missing something. Maybe I should start one to make you happy and then move it. OK?

Fourth question. Are you quite certain you had a "Blackdog sighting account" sighting?
I've never had a bigfoot sighting, have never claimed to and I highly doubt I ever will. It's just an interest of mine. I assume that's OK with you and that you will maintain the high level of tolerance for individual thought that you normally exhibit.


You're welcome to join BFD anytime and ask questions there, that's probably the best place to ask them if you really care about an answer. I know you are a member over at Melissa's forum. Is it that she's just cuter than me or do you prefer to address your questions about BFD here where you have support?
Maybe you just missed me but I have a feeling I'm being baited for something.

You see now that you were confused, yes?

 

[kitakaze]

I see it now. You were jumping back and forth between comments and questions for me and Bobbie.
This sentence confooseled me;

I assumed you were talking to me in reference to Bobbie. Bobbie has supported the JC/MG claims in the past and it looked to me like you were asking me to move a discussion about it on BFD to hoaxes, where it most certainly belongs.

My apologies. This post came up while I proceeded to go ahead and fully respond to your prior post. I will not delete it because it does contain points unanswered. Make no mistake, I agree with your intention of getting to the bottom of the issue and I agree with others' observations in that thread. Stacy, in particular.

 

[kitakaze]

I see it now. You were jumping back and forth between comments and questions for me and Bobbie.
This sentence confooseled me;

And back to Bobbie, in fairness, given the complete ridiculousness of JC/MG's claims, why have you not moved them to the hoax section?

I assumed you were talking to me in reference to Bobbie. Bobbie has supported the JC/MG claims in the past and it looked to me like you were asking me to move a discussion about it on BFD to hoaxes, where it most certainly belongs.

Ah yes, BD. I can see how you might have interpreted it that way now. Maybe I should have bolded Bobbie again. Does BFD have a hoax section? I don't know, I've spent probably 15 minutes total reading the board.

 

[Blackdog]

Obviously there was, Blackdog.Nice. And What exactly are you talking about? People in the thread you started weren't confused by our interaction with Bobbie?

I guess you would have to ask them. I was only answering for myself and I don't think that you dragged Bobbie over here kicking and screaming so there was no confusion on my part concerning your interaction with her. Your question would have better asked to the members at BFD who seemed confused. Like I said you can register there anytime and explain your position to them yourself if you're concerned about it. That seems fair doesn't it?

So that would make the second question reference nonsensical.

I don't post at the BFF anymore because I am on mod review, I seem to have trouble playing nice with one of the moderators there. I suppose I could have tried posting it there but they don't allow or encourage cross posting there and I doubt that it would have been allowed considering that all my posts are reviewed. I could have posted it on every BF board on the net but I only post on BFD. You made the suggestion that it be posted elsewhere;

Also, since some of the members of your board also post at the BFF where Noll is currently participating, maybe one them could take up the issue there.

My suggestion would be that you do so, you know what they say, "If you want something done..."

Besides I got an answer in fairly short order considering the low amount of traffic there. It appears that it is just gossip. If Bobbie wants this to be believed she will have to site sources. Understand that I am in no way sticking up for Noll, he has his own agenda and we don't see eye to eye.

Per my bolding I actually do know otherwise. In your long self-referential response and speech about labeling you ironically seemed to neglect qualifying your 'extremist' comment. Go figure.

You don't believe that there are extremists here? OK, we'll have to disagree. I'm not going to name names and get into that mess. (let the name calling begin)

Again, I don't understand why, if you have questions for me, or anyone else on BFD, why you don't register and ask them there. That really would be the polite and most expedient way to get answers. We don't have any rules against cross posting so feel free.

Does BFD have a hoax section? I don't know, I've spent probably 15 minutes total reading the board.

Just enough time to see me referencing JREF and Bobbie's post there.

Really, I'm not such a bad guy and maybe we're getting off on the wrong foot. You might even like the way I approach the subject.

 

[RayG]

Welcome BD, nice to see ya.

Anyone who resorts to making up cute names for people they disagree with doesn't get a lot of respect from me, whether it's Roger Knights' names like scoftic, suitnik or the names thrown around here. I think that is an extremist position and a bit ad hom. It takes away from your stance by stooping to a level of intolerance and an unwillingness to try to understand your opposition's POV.

I agree 100% and have said so a number of times here and on the BFF.

I like to maintain a middle of the road position and anyone who checks my posting history will know I've stepped on more than a few toes in the "bigfoot community" (I still hate that phrase). In fact I'm not even allowed to freely post at BFF without moderator review. I'm hardly what you would refer to as a "Woo".

Heh, I feel like I'm thought of as too skeptical on the BFF and not skeptical enough over here. Stepping on toes happens, and sometimes the stepee sticks around and argues their position, sometimes they take their toys and go home. I didn't realize you were on mod review. For what?

You might even like the way I approach the subject.

I know I do.

RayG

 

[kitakaze]

I guess you would have to ask them. I was only answering for myself and I don't think that you dragged Bobbie over here kicking and screaming so there was no confusion on my part concerning your interaction with her. Your question would have better asked to the members at BFD who seemed confused. Like I said you can register there anytime and explain your position to them yourself if you're concerned about it. That seems fair doesn't it?

Fair enough.

I don't post at the BFF anymore because I am on mod review, I seem to have trouble playing nice with one of the moderators there. I suppose I could have tried posting it there but they don't allow or encourage cross posting there and I doubt that it would have been allowed considering that all my posts are reviewed. I could have posted it on every BF board on the net but I only post on BFD. You made the suggestion that it be posted elsewhere;

Quote:
Also, since some of the members of your board also post at the BFF where Noll is currently participating, maybe one them could take up the issue there.
My suggestion would be that you do so, you know what they say, "If you want something done..."

Besides I got an answer in fairly short order considering the low amount of traffic there. It appears that it is just gossip. If Bobbie wants this to be believed she will have to site sources. Understand that I am in no way sticking up for Noll, he has his own agenda and we don't see eye to eye.

I think for either of us to show up at the BFF with a 'Did Noll Bring the SC to Dahinden's Funeral?" thread at the BFF it would be considered trolling. You, the trouble maker guy or me, the rabid skeptic guy.

You don't believe that there are extremists here? OK, we'll have to disagree. I'm not going to name names and get into that mess. (let the name calling begin)

That's cool, I understand. I just wasn't sure how to interpret your characterization of 'extremism'. Back when I first joined I used to butt heads with people who would come into the thread and flatly state that anyone who believed in bigfoot was an idiot. It's been a long time since we've had anyone like that. That would be a judgement I would label ignorant and extreme.

Just enough time to see me referencing JREF and Bobbie's post there.

Yup. Someone else spotted it an PMed me. I barely even pay attention to the BF proponent board where I am registered.

Really, I'm not such a bad guy and maybe we're getting off on the wrong foot. You might even like the way I approach the subject.

You might be right. I certainly agreed with much of what you said from that thread.

 

[kitakaze]

Hokulele, panthers are real. You can't dispute that. Come back with photos, hair, etc. to either prove or disprove that there is one on Maui.
Back to bigfoot. I see some of the legends have bothered to show up.
I have a great question for Kitakaze. It would be enlightening for believers and skeptics alike. During which particular thread did you convert from believer to skeptic? Was it a moment of clarity, or a simple realisation of your apparent folly? Thanks, man. It may provide a period of reflection for many.
(that other guy with the devil avatar is great, too) And you even invoked Diogenes. Can't wait for this.

What? Story time? Oh fine. For the kids, I guess. BTW, you have to sit at the back for pulling a reversal of the burden of proof on Hokulele.

Let's see... Where to start? Ah yes.

There I was some years ago in the deep wilds of Vancouver Island, nearing dusk on a late summer evening. I had just finished a brisk round of stumping knocking with no reply and my hands were a bit numb. I had begun my usual call cycle of a series of moans, wails, grunts, cackling, loud sobbing, and spirited Chinese poetry readings in hopes of establishing contact. I was not far from my recently finished Mobile Observatory for Hominoid Apes In Recloose (MOHAIR). She was a mobile blood donation facility that I had sold my house and drained most of my life savings purchasing and converting into a fully outfitted base for my research purposes complete with state of the art military grade surveillance equipment. I called her Susan.

I was wearing my favourite fatigues, ascot, and fidora with spiritual raven feather. I also wore a pheromone chip necklace, a jumbo size bag of Act II popcorn strapped to my belt, and had a couple of fresh deer livers in my pockets. I had just given myself a fresh spray of urine from a female gibbon in estrus that I had 'acquired' through a connection down in San Diego. I suddenly became aware that though I had started with some verses by legendary Tang Dynasty poet Fenggan (AKA Big Stick), I had prematurely gone to the loud sobbing which I thought was odd considering it was not my intention. At first I tried giving myself the feeble explanation that it was the monkey piss making my eyes sting but in my heart I knew the truth... I was a sad, spent soul chasing nonexistent manbeasts in hopes of retrieving lost dreams. I had a head full of nonsense and a pocket full of ungulate innards.

I sold Susan to an organization in Kentucky for half of what I put into her and proceeded to move to the largest megacity on Earth, Tokyo, where I would be free from the cursed forests. Oddly, I had found my knowledge of Chinese poetry to be a blessing when I met my now wife, Wu Pi. We were both in the same Japanese language course. She laughed wildly when I mentioned the Chinese yeren to her and I loved her. Through her vicious hatred of Feng Shui she introduced me to the JREF where I am now one of the bigfoot skeptic legends feared far and wide. In honour of my epiphany Wu Pi calls us The Big Sticks, Pummelers of Bigfootery.

 

[Drewbot]

Jesus Kitakaze this has the makings of a Christopher Guest mockumentary all OVER it.
I think you should send him a screenplay detailing it. Be sure to include the montage sequence, with an Ace Frehley song overlaid, of you outfitting your Bigfoot-Mobile TM.

 

[LTC8K6]

Kit, bigfoot apparently only responds to the sound of a Kodak K-100...

You should have had a pig with you, too. Bigfoot loves to throw pigs, and I like to hear about hairy pig throwing bipeds.
You might have captivated me with tales of porcine flight records.

 

[manofthesea]

to my dear hoku

Sorry man, I was just playing (in a sense). I was remarking to my son the other evening about how cool it is to get paid chasing an unknown monkey, and he replied to me "they have that panther on Maui". He is working with OISC, and the monkey at Hoomaluhia is ongoing. They even had to survey the perimeter of the reservoir. I used to take my Bronco up to Peacock Flats, what a blast. Waiting for my wife to get a little more comfortable on her dirt bike before we ride up there.

 

[TjW]

Kit, bigfoot apparently only responds to the sound of a Kodak K-100...

You should have had a pig with you, too. Bigfoot loves to throw pigs, and I like to hear about hairy pig throwing bipeds.
You might have captivated me with tales of porcine flight records.

How do you know they're throwing them? Perhaps the pigs are simply choosing that moment to fly.

 

[manofthesea]

Kitakaze, my man

I knew there was more to you than just a simple WnW reference (brilliant). Man, that story is very insightful. Thank you.
Read mine at BFF. It's all true.
I think that I have a more reasonable answer to my quest, albeit I've only started this online bigfooters' thing a few months ago. It was just something that I lived with. Not unlike dodging a few bullets here and there. My remark about the know-it-all computer is true, in a sense also. I have received more than I could have imagined by way of references, sources, and just plain truth. However, the mystery is still alive for me. Whoopee.
And again, thank you for your personal story. My wife is Japanese (!), but usually her advice is straight to the point: waving her fist in front of me and saying "punch your face".
To all: if you ever have a question or remark about anything I've said here or at BFF, feel free to post it. I stand by my remarks. All of them. I've learned alot in the past few months, thanks mostly to skeptics, so some of my 'angles' may seem to have changed. Also, I may be naive as I was not aware that the PGF was the Turin shroud of bigfootery. I assumed the belief was mostly based on experiences that people had out in the woods with a real creature. Now I realise that most of the animosity towards me may be due to the fact that in one of my first posts, I expressed doubt about the integrity of the PGF film. So, I get it from both sides, believers mostly.

 

[LTC8K6]

How do you know they're throwing them?

Well, it's true that I lack first hand knowledge. Very unfortunate.

Kitakaze's report would have been impressive. You can just tell, can't you?

When calculating the distance, bounces and rolls are to be included btw.

 

[carcharodon]

...Or how Lyle Laverty and his crew of Forest Service workers camped in the area since early summer had missed Big Mama.

Well gee, Laverty and crew also missed all those gazillions of tracks on Onion Mountain and Blue Creek Mountain that same summer...even though they were everywhere and were around for a long time and plenty of other people saw them too.

How about that???? So your point is what exactly?

P.S) Don't answer that. Just a flying visit. I'm really not interested in any answer of yours.LOL.

 

[LTC8K6]

There were hardly any tracks at all, of course. Missing those is nothing compared to missing Patty, especially when we know Patty was in the area and Titmus had met her already.

 

[William Parcher]

I've always wondered about a couple things concerning the Laverty & Company (his co-workers) presence at Bluff Creek in relation to the PGF.

It is commonly stated that they worked the area (by way of the logging road) regularly and had not seen any Bigfoot tracks prior to finding them a few days after October 20th (the given date of the filming). The underlying assumption is that the tracks simply weren't there until Oct. 20. It is further assumed that if there were any tracks, these guys would have seen them. Is that really something we must assume? Are they certain to see any tracks in the sandbar area by simply riding past in their truck? Did they systematically exit the truck and inspect the surrounding ground as some routine activity as they slowly make their way along the road? Or, were these tracks visible from inside the truck? Why and how did they find the P/G/Patty tracks in the first place?

I also wonder (and previously had this question unanswered) if Laverty & Co should have seen the PG encampment at Louse Camp. Is LC visible from the logging road, or is it some place that Laverty & Co simply never visited? The reason the question is asked is because Laverty never mentions seeing their camp in spite of it supposidly being there for many days or weeks.

 

[LTC8K6]

Anyone heard this interview?

In a message dated 7/29/2004 Daniel Perez writes:

Editor: With regard to Kal K. Korff's article, "Exposing Roger Patterson's 1967 Bigfoot Film Hoax," as published in your Skeptical Inquirer, July/August 2004 it should be clear to all who engage in the business of science that Greg Long's thesis (the subject in the Patterson-Gimlin
movie is a costumed man) is a testable one, yet no one to date, be it CSICOP, science or Hollywood has been able to duplicate that movie and they have had almost 37 years to do so.

Furthermore, the picture of the "footprint allegedly found at Bluff Creek site," as shown on page 38, there is nothing alleged about it. It is a fact. It was photographed by Lyle Laverty, a timber management assistant with the United States Forest Service on October 21st, completely independent of the late Roger Patterson and his friend, Bob Gimlin. I have a taped interview of Mr. Laverty made in 1992, so I am no stranger when it comes to a detailed and engaging discussion about the P-G film. And finally, that alleged footprint was cast by the late Bob Titmus just before the close of October 1967, a trained taxidermist very familiar with animals of the Pacific Northwest and he reported there was never any indication of fakery.
Daniel Perez
Norwalk, California

 

[LTC8K6]

Laverty said he passed by the film site on the 19th or the 20th. Presumably he saw no tracks.

He took the picture on the 23rd.

P & G said there were no tracks when they first got up there as well. The rain had mostly removed the tracks they had come to see.