Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

[Mad Hom]

http://www.isu.edu/~meldd/fxnlmorph.html

Meldrum doesn't appear to give credit to Freeman or Marx, though he uses their discoveries.

What...no Biscardi?? I mean why the hell not.....He's already made his Freeman and Marx bed why not lie down in it with ol Tommy Boy Biscardi as well.

 

[Correa Neto]

Yeah I guess for better or for worse Proff-Jeffy has to stick with Freeman's hoaxery.....it's kind of sad actually.

On a related note one thing that makes me grin is when Bigfoot Apologist defiantly claims....

"Just because he hoaxed W,X and Y doesn't mean that he hoaxed Z"

Egads....don't they listen to themselves when they speak?? The man admitted on television to faking footprints...why would a man who can pretty much find Bigfeetsus prints not to mention Bigfeetsus him/herself on demand need to fake a single peice of evidence?? Do think it's maybe because he was full of Shyt?? Maybe??

You forgot the "he was just trying to spice things up since people were not paying too much attention to bigfeet lately" excuse...

 

[tube]

Lucky for Paul Freeman, Bigfoot was kind enough to leave tracks right on the road itself:

 

[Mad Hom]

You forgot the "he was just trying to spice things up since people were not paying too much attention to bigfeet lately" excuse...

Yeah..."trying to spice things up"...and they wonder why most people laugh at the prospect of Bigfeetsus being a really for really flesh and blood creature.

 

[Drewbot]

In response to being incorrectly dubbed a 'believer'

My response requiring proof in order for the gub'ment to start funding, was only because my 'tax-breaks for bf research' was snubbed-utterly.

 

[kitakaze]

In response to being incorrectly dubbed a 'believer'

Hi, Drew. Welcome to the board. Were you incorrectly dubbed a 'believer'?

If you think so would it be because you claim to have an experience that was difficult to rationalize as anything but bigfoot?

Beyond that, do you think it would be unfair to refer to as a 'believer' a person who bluff charges a tree stump believing it to be bigfoot, try to get it to flinch?

Also, if you believe bigfoots are real creatures, how smart was that move? Would you bluff charge a mountain gorilla? Any potentially dangerous creature?

My response requiring proof in order for the gub'ment to start funding, was only because my 'tax-breaks for bf research' was snubbed-utterly.

So you think tax breaks for bf research was utterly snubbed unfairly?

BTW, if it's worth anything, from reading some of your posts you seem to have a good sense of humour about bigfootery.

 

[kitakaze]

So I was trying to keep my eye out for when we were getting really close to 200,000 views and wouldn't you know it- got a little busy and missed it by about 500.

Bigfoot fans of the world unite and take over!

 

[kitakaze]

Concerning the recent Senaca Rocks area Pendleton County, West Virginia claimed bigfoot sightings that I've been following, here is a BFRO discussion board on the subject:

http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/thread.php?forumid=124725&threadid=1692467

Migrating bigfoots are of course to blame. Oddly enough, the enthusiasts there don't seem to be aware of the October 2006 Pocahontas, West Virginia Expedition of less than a year before in which a a traumatizing Class A sighting was reported and frightened members were strategically herded together by the skillful vollies of a rock throwing co-operative sasquatch clan.

 

[Drewbot]

I had to take out the URL's or I couldn't reply.

Hi, Drew. Welcome to the board. Were you incorrectly dubbed a 'believer'?
If you think so would it be because you claim to have an experience that was difficult to rationalize as anything but bigfoot?

I believe most sightings to be the result of a Hypnagogic Hallucination. and I have not ruled that out in my case.

Beyond that, do you think it would be unfair to refer to as a 'believer' a person who bluff charges a tree stump believing it to be bigfoot, try to get it to flinch?

I never said unfairly, however, I have said if I ever see a hairy primate in the Michigan Woods, I am going to use my power to get DNA.

Also, if you believe bigfoots are real creatures, how smart was that move?

If I believed they were real, and if I believed them to be dangerous, it was not a smart move.

Would you bluff charge a mountain gorilla? Any potentially dangerous creature?

Are you claiming that Bigfoot is dangerous?

So you think tax breaks for bf research was utterly snubbed unfairly?

Not unfairly, just without valid reasons, it was somewhat tongue in cheek, since these people want government funding, why not try for the easiest form of government funding? When this wasn't understood, I proceeded to answer the thread question as straighforwardly as I could.

 

[kitakaze]

I believe most sightings to be the result of a Hypnagogic Hallucination. and I have not ruled that out in my case.

Interesting. What leads you to this belief?

I never said unfairly,

But it is incorrect to consider you a bigfoot believer?

I have said if I ever see a hairy primate in the Michigan Woods, I am going to use my power to get DNA.

How does that play out? (If that was a joke, it was a good one, BTW.)

If I believed they were real, and if I believed them to be dangerous, it was not a smart move.

I think it's obvious that you believe bigfoot is a real animal as you charged into the forest after a stump thinking it was one. So the question is how did you arrive at the conclusion that you were safe in doing so.

Are you claiming that Bigfoot is dangerous?

Ha ha... that was funny. The only thing that I claim about bigfoot is that though I wished otherwise, their existence is extremely unlikely. As described by bigfootery, ridiculous. That and a complete absense of reliable evidence.

Not unfairly, just without valid reasons,

The first and simplest valid reason, given to by Saskeptic:

'Cause every idiot and his brother will try to get the tax break by claiming that they're doing "bigfoot research"?

Your reply:

I expected more of a valid reason from you Saskeptic, you're saying that incentives intended to increase capital expenditure on a targeted sector should not be implemented because we are afraid of people breaking the law?

It seems kind of absurd for someone to pretend to open a manufacturing plant in Michigan to recieve a tax break, when the tax breaks would involve property tax breaks and income tax breaks, which would only happen if the person actually bought the property, or developed income from the venture.

Oh wait! Michigans governer just announced all tax breaks given to companies who open a mfg. plant, are being halted because she is afraid too many people will claim, that they are opening a plant, and not actually open it.

This post has been edited by Drew: Aug 30 2007, 07:03 AM

Didn't really think that one through, IMO. You can always tell me what the plan would be for defining for goverment purposes what qualifies as 'bigfoot research'.

 

[Drewbot]

Interesting. What leads you to this belief?]

Hypnagogic Hallucinations are experienced typically when falling asleep. They often accompany sleep paralysis, which explains the "Bigfoot's psychic abilities froze me in my bed" encounters, and the 'I was frozen with fear', or 'I was completely frozen by the sight'. The hallucinations often include a dark figure in the periphery of the persons dream-induced 'vision'

I can't post links yet, but if you do a google search for 'hypnagogic hallucination' the third link down contains this info.

Hypnagogic hallucinations can occur at sleep onset, either during daytime sleep episodes or at night. They are usually quite vivid, and often involve vision. The visual hallucinations usually consist of simple forms – colored circles or parts of objects – that are constant or changing in size. People may also see the image of an animal or a person, and are more often in color. Auditory hallucinations are also common, but other senses are seldom involved. Hypnagogic hallucinations are dreams that intrude on wakefulness, which can cause visual, auditory, or touchable sensations. They occur between waking and sleeping, usually at the onset of sleep, and can also occur about 30 seconds after a cataleptic attack. Hypnagogic hallucinations are a feature of narcolepsy

Most sightings are at night, while stationary hunting, or while sitting in a car, or in a tent, or even while driving. All places where it is quite easy to start falling asleep. Google search sleep paralysis, or sleep hallucinations, or out-of-body experience, and you will get several examples of the sleep-paralysis, dark vision 'peering at me' experiences.

This only explains many sightings, others might be attributed to fever, chemicals, or just plain made up.

 

[mangler]

Drew, welcome to the board.

I tend to agree with your hallucination angle as one aspect of this physical/psychological process.

Personally, I have found optical illusions (stationary object movement) to be quite common in nature, it's the whole visual rhythm, light/shadow, unconscious inference etc. thing I guess. One's perception of an object can get a little twisted at times.

I think the vast majority of hunters have witnessed stationary object's moving, especially at dawn and dusk.


m


Check this out!


See movement?

 

[kitakaze]

Hypnagogic Hallucinations are experienced typically when falling asleep. They often accompany sleep paralysis, which explains the "Bigfoot's psychic abilities froze me in my bed" encounters, and the 'I was frozen with fear', or 'I was completely frozen by the sight'. The hallucinations often include a dark figure in the periphery of the persons dream-induced 'vision'.

Don't worry about the links for sleep paralysis, Drew. You're at a skeptic website so you'd be hard pressed to find many here that aren't familiar with it and its relation to claims of the paranormal. Particularily what you will find is discussion concerning sleep paralysis and alien abduction, ghosts, malevolent entities, succubus/incubus etc. What you won't find are many people linking it to the bigfoot phenomenom. You said that you believe most sightings to be the result of hynogogic hallucinations which I find to be not a plausible explanation.

Here's a link on sleep parlysis you may have been looking for. It also includeds a list of possible causes and contributing factors. Please note:

Sleep paralysis is a condition characterized by temporary paralysis of the body shortly after waking up (known as hypnopompic paralysis) or, less often, shortly before falling asleep (known as hypnagogic paralysis).[1]

Physiologically, it is closely related to the paralysis that occurs as a natural part of REM (rapid eye movement) sleep, which is known as REM atonia. Sleep paralysis occurs when the brain awakes from a REM state, but the bodily paralysis persists. This leaves the person fully aware, but unable to move. In addition, the state may be accompanied by hypnagogic hallucinations.

I think you'll find that most people here are completely comfortable attributing the majority of bigfoot sightings claims to wishful thinking, outright deception, and misidentification. Ideas such as the one you are suggesting are a stretch but at least its better than trying to fit a real species into anecdotes.

Sleep paralysis aside, there a five other key points from my previous post that you neglected to address in your last post. As the five items were regarding specific questions regarding you and bigfootery, I was hoping that they wouldn't be ignored.

Thanks, and again welcome to the JREF.

 

[Drewbot]

But it is incorrect to consider you a bigfoot believer?

yes. I do not believe it exists, I want to be able to believe it exists, and would gladly accept verifiable evidence to convince me. Thoughout my posting history, I often carelessly leave out the disclaimer 'Note: I do not believe that BF exists based on evidence thus far collected' and I often leave out 'warning sarcasm to follow' as you can see from this response I had to a Bigfoot sighting on a moped;

What could be greater than Bigfoot hunting on a Moped?
Mopeds are totally sweet. And then when bigfoot threw that rock at you, and you went back to your friends, and didn't tell them about the rock, and then drove back through the spot that the rock got thrown at you, and kept on going, that was sweet too.

How does that play out? (If that was a joke, it was a good one, BTW.)I think it's obvious that you believe bigfoot is a real animal as you charged into the forest after a stump thinking it was one.

My implied conclusion of safety was given the fact that there is no verifiable evidence of BF the odds of it really being a BF are slim, you are the one who alluded that it is as dangerous as a mountain gorilla.

The first and simplest valid reason, given to by Saskeptic:Your replyidn't really think that one through, IMO. You can always tell me what the plan would be for defining for goverment purposes what qualifies as 'bigfoot research'.

I invent a scenario, in a thread asking why the gov't doesn't sponsor BF research, where the Government gives a tax break to a company pursuing BF research, I get responses that too many people would try and fake BF research to get the tax break, and now you are telling me that I didn't define the parameters of what would allow a company to collect this imaginary tax break? Am I following what you are trying to say? or are you just saying that I gave up too easily and directly answered the question of the thread? This may just be a situation where I should have used a disclaimer of some sort.

 

[kitakaze]

yes. I do not believe it exists, I want to be able to believe it exists, and would gladly accept verifiable evidence to convince me. Thoughout my posting history, I often carelessly leave out the disclaimer 'Note: I do not believe that BF exists based on evidence thus far collected'

Yes, I agree that your professed skepticism does not come across in what little of your posts I've seen. The impression I got was of a believer who engages in bigfoot 'research'. Can you think of any instances where such an impression might have arisen?

I often leave out 'warning sarcasm to follow' as you can see from this response I had to a Bigfoot sighting on a moped;

I particularily love such reports but would a wave of ridicule among a community of bigfoot enthusiasts such as the BFF not be expected? I fail to see how sarcasm at a moped riding zoobie clearly identifies you as one skeptical of bigfoot in general.

My implied conclusion of safety was given the fact that there is no verifiable evidence of BF the odds of it really being a BF are slim

So you charged at what appeared at the time to be a bigfoot knowing that it was very unlikely to be so? You were unsurprised that it turned out to be a stump? That came across in the thread you started on the incident?

I invent a scenario, in a thread asking why the gov't doesn't sponsor BF research, where the Government gives a tax break to a company pursuing BF research,

Drew, please don't mince words. Take responsibility for your statement. This is not merely inventing a scenario. It's an assertion, a statement, a suggestion, an opinion stated. (And, IMO one very poorly considered)(bolding mine):

The best way for anything to happen, is for the government to encourage private investment. What they should do, is give a tax break to anyone wishing to spend money on Sasquatch research. This would encourage private investment which would lead to the goal much quicker than the government doing it.

(bolding mine) and now you are telling me that I didn't define the parameters of what would allow a company to collect this imaginary tax break?

No. I don't think you're keeping up. What I'm telling you is you made a very ill-thought suggestion. Also that if you were to properly consider the suggestion, you could expand on what the plan would be for defining for goverment purposes what qualifies as 'bigfoot research'.

This may just be a situation where I should have used a disclaimer of some sort.

Yes, that might be it. It's certainly no type of situation where the skepticism you profess comes across. It does look like one of the very many strange ideas suggested by bigfoot believers.

 

[Drewbot]

I probably can't convince you. So I'll concede that some of my posts might be construed as those of a BF believer. If you'll concede that you havent read most of my posts.

 

[kitakaze]

I probably can't convince you. So I'll concede that some of my posts might be construed as those of a BF believer. If you'll concede that you havent read most of my posts.

Convince me that you're a bigfoot skeptic? Who cares? If you want to play Woods and Wildmen, it's your life. Absolutely I'll concede I haven't read many of your posts at all. What kind of weirdo would I be if I did? My only discussion with you arises from a suggestion of goverment tax breaks for bigfoot research. Apparently you don't want to discuss it. Bigfooters say the wildest things and often we comment on them here. It's no different from discussing the weirdness of 9/11 Truthers, homeopathy fans, or UFO geeks. People who believe in woo woo weirdness. Have some reliable evidence of man beasts roaming the world? Great, I'll be front and center with a plate for my crow. In the meantime bigfootery is fascinating. A treasure trove for the student of sociology, belief systems, and general human quirkiness.

Woods and Wildmen is hilarious. I believe you know that. Just see Rick Noll's undying bigfoot apologist gymnastics in HH's 'There is No Bigfoot' thread. Role dice, +1-6 aquire hat and fatigues. Luckily Rick's come across a chef with a bigfoot in the restaurant basement problem. It's only a matter of time, right?

 

[Correa Neto]

Hey, I feel that hypnagogic hallucinations can explain some sightings.
Regarding the others, false memories, illusions, mistaken IDs and fabrications.

The problem is, how can one be certain to where Old McDonald's sighting belongs?
Hyonagogic hallucination? False memories? Illusion? Mistaken ID? Fabrication? Or a mixture of the above?

This question we quite often we can not provide an answer...

Yes, I will concede that there's a small (very very very very very very, wait, did I say very? Yes? OK, but I'll say it again aniway- very) chance that some may be the real deal.

 

[manofthesea]

What was Patty looking at?

It seems that Patty didn't mind being filmed because she apparently strolled past the cameraman and even looked back towards him. Why is it now that sasquatch are so camera shy? And also, what could they have used for bait?

 

[tconley2019]

Yowie: Crikey, did you see ol' Patty in 'er film debut?
Cripplefoot: No, how was it?
Yowie: Oh, the poor ol' dear has let 'erself go somethin' awful.
Wendigo: I heard it was a porno, eh. Showed all of her bits, she did, eh. And none to clean she was, if'n ya catch my drift.
Yeti: It's all of the deer liver. Hard to keep regular with all that Vitamin A.
Yowie: Wendigo is a blood sucking cannibal and 'e can wipe his butt just fine, see?
Wendigo: That was retconned. In Third Edition, I'm a gentle giant of the forest now, I am.
Chewbacca: Raaawr?
Wendigo: Oh, sorry man. Eh.
Cripplefoot: I heard she got breast implants for her role. From some shady clinic in Mexi-
Chupacabra: Hey, cement has silicon in it. I think. And the rebar won't EVER droop.
Wedigo: So, how does she look?
Yowie: Like a bleeding man inna suit. And walks like a Marx Broth-
Patty: I HAD A LEG CRAMP! <runs off, sobbing>

And that's why there will never be another real bigfoot film.

I apologize to any cultures or species I may have slandered.