Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

[LTC8K6]

"Fakes", as I stated. Your bear track argument is much worse that "simply without merit" and I didn't include it, but he may have seen it if he perused the list. It would then be included in his comment. Evidently he didn't think much of the thread.

I'm glad you filtered me out for Meldrum, Lu. I couldn't take the rejection, you know. Thanks for sparing me.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

He examined tracks in situ on several occasions. Did you?

Getting fooled by Marx doesn't blow the rest of his work out of the water. He was a bit overeager in that case. Marx wasn't a "known hoaxer" at the time.

Not a known hoaxer .. = Hadn't been caught yet ...

Still waiting for the credentials that show you have some expertise in anything.

How does one get credentials in Bigfootery ?


Did you miss the shot of Green examining the Wallace tracks in situ a few pages back ?

Just because you refuse to see something, doesn't make it go away..

You did not comment on the Titmus track that had obvious squared off toes..


Are you personally aware of any fake tracks at all ?

And no, the cracked foot and the print would not be a perfect match.. Just like all the many tracks in a trackway, supposedly made by the same Bigfoot, are not perfect matches..

Do I need to repost the Bluff Creek trackway, and point out that no two of the tracks match.. Some of them look like different feet all together..

 

[LAL]

Where else can you examine tracks, Lu?

From photos on the Internet?

Well, Krantz can examine copies of copies of tracks and come up with a foot skeleton, so I guess he has more qualifications than anyone, eh?

As an anatomist, more than you, I'll wager.

Did you also forget that I believe Green was fooled by alderfeet?

Did you forget I see no substance to such a claim? You have nothing but belief.

Coleman challenged Green on the 16" tracks at Blue Creek Mountain and Green countered him in no uncertain terms.

Once again Lu, I believe we are all qualified equally well to speculate on bigfoot.

What no one is qualified to do is to go as far as some folks have in describing bigfoot as if they had the facts.

But some folks are qualified to throw out false accusations and pure speculation as facts as long as they're being sceptical?

The one person with some qualifications and credentials in a related field took Cliff Crook's speculation on the Skookum Cast as somehow valid and put it in his book, without doing a first hand examination. If this is the best sceptics have to offer, I'll take vanilla.

For any other sort of animal, that one piece of evidence would likely have been considered conclusive.

 

[LTC8K6]

From photos on the internet?

Photos of tracks in situ, Lu?

 

[LTC8K6]

Credentials in Sasquatchery?

 

[UrsulaV]

I've been out for a few days with real life, but let me see if I've got this straight.

Dfoot said "Here are photos of my suit," and presented photos of Patty.

Some Footers said "God, that's so fake, and doesn't look like Patty!"

Dfoot said "Actually, those are photos of Patty, I wanted to see if any of you could be objective about it. I'll guess that's a no."

Aforementioned Footers got really really pissed, poo was flung, etc.

Am I missing something? I mean, an actual sequence of events, and not an outraged how-dare-somebody-fool-me rant?

Actually, if that's more or less what happened, I think it's pretty funny and certainly points out that Dfoot was right about the objectivity of the Footers in question. Not tactful, perhaps, but revealing as hell.

Of course, if the sequence of events differed, I'm sure various parties will let me know at once and with maximum venom. Do we have links?

 

[LTC8K6]

Of course, if the sequence of events differed, I'm sure various parties will let me know at once and with maximum venom. Do we have links?

I think this is where you can look.

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=13887&view=findpost&p=300099

 

[Huntster]

I've been out for a few days with real life, but let me see if I've got this straight.

Dfoot said "Here are photos of my suit," and presented photos of Patty.

Some Footers said "God, that's so fake, and doesn't look like Patty!"

Dfoot said "Actually, those are photos of Patty, I wanted to see if any of you could be objective about it. I'll guess that's a no."

Aforementioned Footers got really really pissed, poo was flung, etc.

Am I missing something?.....

Yup. Lots.

..Do we have links...

Yup. Provided already. Twice.

You're a real observant soul.

I suppose you need them linked thrice?

Why should I bother?

 

[LTC8K6]

You're a real observant soul.

Apparently you are too...

I've been out for a few days with real life

 

[Bronze Dog]

Am I missing something?.....

Yup. Lots.

Such as?

 

[LTC8K6]

Real life?

 

[LAL]

Anyone who's spent time in NC and isn't already a creduloid knows that North Carolina seems to attract people who accept dogma first and push critical thinking to the back of the pack. I lived there (not by choice) for four years (Ft. Bragg - military) - and with the exception of the military guys I worked with, almost everyone I've met in NC has been, without a doubt, a mindless creduloid. Every form of religious nonsense is accepted as law; new and unusual ideas are rejected automatically. Woo rules the roost there; everyone's neighbor is a psychic, and everyone's dated a real vampire before. Etc, etc, etc. I could go on and on...

What a thoroughly skewed and predjudiced view that is.

Most of the people who live in Waynesville aren't from here, but those who are are as canny a lot as I've ever met. I have a neighbor who built her house with her own hands and raised six kids alone after divorcing her alcoholic husband. She's a genuine mountain woman and could probably fix your car for you. Her kids are all successful in their various fields and would probably not take your comments kindly. The area I live in was once owned by one man whose last surviving daughter was still renting out houses on her share of the estate at the age of 98. They had orchards, cattle and no vampires that I know of.

Waynesville has live theater, put on by local talent, that is absolutely excellent. There are gourmet restaurants, fabulous gift shops, vacation houses, condos, indoor plumbing and a movie theater.

No Army bases.

Sounds like the Tar Heels you met may have been putting you on. Some of them don't like outsiders, especially when they seem intent on destroying a way of life that worked for them for centuries. Property values have been driven so high around here by "Floridians" buying up the land that some who have lived here all their lives can't afford the taxes and are being forced out.

You're a priest of exactly what again?

 

[fsol]

Okay dfoot, the ball appears to be on your side of the net.

I just waiting for Dfoot to say, "yes it is all Patty" and then for everyone else to pore over the pics trying to point out the differences...

"The colour here is all wrong"
"The arms are not quite the same thickness here"
"I can't see the thigh bulge over there."

It could get quite amusing.

 

[LAL]

Photos of tracks in situ, Lu?

You didn't get it, did you? Have you examined any kind of tracks anywhere but on the Internet?

 

[LAL]

Credentials in Sasquatchery?

Primatology, anatomy, anthropology, zoology..........even taxidermy or tracking would do.

 

[Correa Neto]

...snip...So, you've seen the PGF on TV and never, to my knowlege seen any casts firsthand but you're qualified to state the available data is "inconclusive at best"?

Well, where am I supposed to have seen it? At Imax?
I saw the clip at Legend Meets (pseudo)Science also.
We've been through this discussion before. The film is not reliable for a two basic reasons (1) the lingering shadow of hoax that won't go away regardless of PGFfers best efforts and (2) its poor quality.

We also discussed the "validity of casts" issue before. I have alrady stated why i think its not conclusive and in most cases unreliable. You are just using the worn-out argument from authority with a new presentation.

Have I ever wrote that you "claim to be an atheist woman who once lived at PNW and thinks bigfeet are real"?

Would there be anything wrong with stating that?

IMHO yes. Specially when the context is taken in to account.

And note that I offered you a way to check if I am or not a poseur. Your next move will be to?

Ignore that.

Why? Because as soon as you check you will have to remove your claims?

We've been over all this before, including my objections to your tendency to misquote me, which you owned in one case, and what I take at times to be arrogance and condescension on your part (calling me biased, e.g., for trying to confine my comments to an area I knew well), which I've stated to you on this board, not TBFF. Why do you insist on rehashing it?

Beause there's a big difference between stating that someone's opinions are biased and placing somene's character in doubt.

I'd rather talk about why Meldrum seems to think you don't know what you're talking about on the foot argument.

Why not comment on why I think Meldrum's interpretation is not reliable, even after his answer?

I've noticed we don't often resort to name calling and generalizations. I'm interested in countering misinformation, which is rampant on this board. Roger and Hunster seem to be doing that as well.

Rampant on this board? The recent episode with Dfoot seems to have not catched your attention...

As for countering misinformation, that's what's being done here. It's JREF main goal.Too bad that most of the misinformation is coming from from some footers...

Perhaps we should just let wild claims and unsubtantialed assertions go unchallenged so that no one is asked to actually think.

That would be creduloid heaven, eh?
One could claim PGF is not a hoax, the tracks we discussed were really made by a bigfoot, UFOs are spacecraft, little gray men are abducting people, chemtrails are being spewed to controll population, ID is real, Earth is 6Ky old, etc. And no annoying skeptic would point to the holes...

 

[LTC8K6]

You didn't get it, did you?

It's hard to tell with you, Lu.

 

[LTC8K6]

It's unclear whether anyone has actually seen the "PGF" beyond that first time in DeAtley's house. Gimlin wasn't even present then.

 

[LAL]

LAL -- I always look forward to your responses as I'm bound to learn something from them. I had no idea I was the only one fooled by me. Also, I had no idea that wooden feet used decades ago couldn't possibly develop a crack later. Although you might want to re-think that last one.

Guess I'll have to respond more often.

Did I make such a claim about the crack? Where?

I have no idea when that crack or indent developed or when the feet were carved. My point is only that it is not in the same place as the line in one of the photos Green took, and is not in the same place as the one apparently on one of the Titmus casts. The carved feet are not a match for any tracks in any trackway, with the possible exception of one referred to by Coleman. Wallace was apparently not in the area at the time the tracks started appearing in 1958, according to Al Hodgson. Wallace had a souvenier shop in Washington where he sold phony casts and photos and displayed at least one set of carved feet. He may have been a scam artist and a "lovable prankster", but a successful hoaxer he was not.

As to your experiment, your point is well taken that people tend to see what their expectations lead them to see. I'm surprised you haven't noticed this in regard to your finding of hip-wader lines and separations pointing to a mask or hunks of padding. Soarwing's relentless posting of ape photos showing the same sort of lines didn't seem to deter you in the slightest.

One of your posts here seemed to indicate you think Gimlin had another sighting. You said he seemed lucky wherever he went. Did you mean Freeman? Gimlin only had one. Freeman claimed four, but he was out looking in a hot spot while others were home claiming he was fabricating evidence.

 

[Z]

What a thoroughly skewed and predjudiced view that is.

Yep, sure is. Skewed by experienced, and prejudiced from having to deal with the average mouth-breathers of Harnett County and the Blue Ridge area (the two areas I'm most familiar with).

I was actually composing a proper response to your post, but realized I'd be guilty of needlessly continuing what was a pointless and unnecessary derail in the first place. I'll just say that nothing you addressed prevents these fine people from being gullible creduloids, in the least. As to what I'm a priest of, while that point seems absolutely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, I'll answer: I'm a first-degree priest of the Correllian Nativist Church. I'm also a priest of that on-line sham church thing... what is that? ULC, or something like that. But so was my neighbor's cat...