Huntster, I gather that you think these aren't Patty's legs.
Well dfoot just needs to post the matching PGF frame, yes?
LTC8K6 -- See what I mean? I've heard everything from,
That's not as good as Patty, to
I knew all along that was Patty, and now finally the
You say it's Patty - where's the proof?
Yet I already posted the images of Patty that I used and explained where they came from.
The one you are referring to I got from the SASQUATCH ODYSSEY dvd. I picked it because the LEGEND MEETS SCIENCE dvd claimed to show "full frame" of the entire film. It doesn't. The frame only shows Patty's feet in LMS. In the Odyssey dvd we get to see the full body of Patty walking upright and perhaps looking a bit too human or suit-like. Since most people seem to focus on LMS I deliberately chose a the Odyssey frame which would show a Patty image that fewer people would see right off the bat.
I have to say I was surprised to read that LAL didn't even own a copy of LMS which is supposed to be the clearest version of the film available. How is it she has been able to make all these definitive statements about what she's seeing on it? Strange. Hopefully shes got it by now and can focus better on the moving muscle masses, fecal material and impossible to reproduce gait.
Hunster -- You've proved what I was trying to demonstrate enough now. It's okay.
Think of DeAtley and Patterson editing the footage (shot by the cameraman/editor that DeAtley hired) of themselves at their "Northwest Research Association". They toured their film - complete with a Q and A session with its heroic Bigfoot Hunter star - and made a small fortune. The entire time DeAtley was laughing because the "Northwest Research" headquarters used in the film never existed. He knew full well that he'd simply shot the film of Roger and himself at the local Junior College and was only PRETENDING to have such a headquarters. That's an example of lying for money (which they received in stacks of cash).
Letters back and forth between the lawyers for Gimlin, Dahinden vs. Pat Patterson and DeAtley reveal that Mrs. Patterson claimed VELMA RADFORD'S contract was a forged document.
Her contention was that somehow this Mrs. Radford must have known in advance that Roger was going to be a successful filmmaker and so (along with six co-conspirators who claimed to have witnessed and signed the contract with Roger) decided to make up a contract to defraud them.
But the signatures of Roger Patterson on his Northwest Research documents and the Radford contract match. The witnesses all hold up. Velma Radford is telling the truth about loaning Roger the money he would need for a suit from Hollywood at the very time he would have needed such a suit made. And Jerry Merritt says that they happened to go to Hollywood right after the signing of the contract and mentions the exact amount of money Mrs. Radford's contract states was loaned to Roger.
If Pat Patterson brought a drink out to Roger the day Mrs. Radford showed up at his home, Pat had to know this was a real contract. Just as Pat would know Heironimus was in the suit if she was looking out the window when Heironimus tried it on. Pat Patterson is lying so that she can keep any flow of money from that little film rolling in to her. Plain and simple.
All of the businessmen who associated with Roger Patterson say the same thing. He was a liar and a cheat. His own partner in crime and brother-in-law plainly states that Roger would fake Bigfoot evidence in order to prove he was right about the subject and make himself into some sort of star. Pat Patterson's lying behavior regarding the court case and cheating Mrs. Radford is clear. Gimlin is obviously pretending to be a long-haired Indian tracker when he shows up to promote the film with DeAtley and Patterson in New York and the man who set up the event will tell you this.
What I did was the same thing I told you I did with the magic levitation trick at work. I fooled a few people and then told them how it was done. That's not a con or hoax. What DeAtley, Gimlin, and the Pattersons have done IS a con and a hoax that will go on unless a few of us step up and reveal the tricks involved. The tricks of the suit as well as the tricks our own perceptions can play on us.
SOME WISDOM FROM GREEN AND MELDRUM:
GREEN -- "No one went on to deal with the question of how human arms could be extended to match the extra length and what such an extension would look like.
My measurements of the film, made 36 years ago, gave the creature arms that were 30 inches from the shoulder to the wrist and legs that were 35 inches from the hip to the ground. My own measurements are about 24 inches from shoulder to wrist and 40 inches from hip to ground. Only the ratios of the measurements matter, the actual size of either the human or the creature makes no difference, and the ratios for creature and human are so much different that precise accuracy of the measurements is not significant either. The much ridiculed Patterson-Gimlin film does not show a man in a suit."
MELDRUM -- "It has been obvious to even the casual viewer that the film subject possesses arms that are disproportionately long for its stature. John Green is a veteran researcher into the question of Sasquatch or Bigfoot. He was among the first to view the film captured by Patterson and Gimlin and has studied it intensely in the intervening years. His recognition of the significance of the unhumanly long arms of the film subject is point that has not previously been articulated in such a straightforward manner. It is such a fundamental observation that it is considered a breakthrough in assessing the validity of this extraordinary film. Anthropologists typically express limb proportions as an intermembral index (IM), which is the ratio of combined arm and forearm skeletal length (humerus + radius) to combined thigh and leg skeletal length (femur + tibia) x 100. The human IM averages 72. The intermembral index is a significant measure of a primate's locomotor adapatation. The forelimb-dominated movements of the chimp and gorilla are reflected in their high IM indices of 106 and 117 respectively.
Identifying the positions of the joints on the film subject can only be approximate and the limbs are frequently oriented obliquely to the plane of the film, rendering them foreshortened to varying degrees.
However, in some frames the limbs are nearly vertical, hence parallel to the filmplane, and indicate an IM index somewhere between 80 and 90, intermediate between humans and African apes. In spite of the imprecision of this preliminary estimate, it is well beyond the mean for humans and effectively rules out a man-in-a-suit explanation for the Patterson-Gimlin film without invoking an elaborate, if not inconceivable, prosthetic contrivance to account for the appropriate positions and actions of wrist and elbow and finger flexion visible on the film. This point deserves further examination and may well rule out the probability of hoaxing."
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Okay... NONE of that applies to creature suits. We can make your leg not only appear bent, we can make it appear to bend the opposite direction of a human being's AND have hooves for feet. We can make the limbs as odd and goofy as we want. We can make the feet bend at the mid-tarsal or anything else.
These people are looking at something they have yet to investigate honestly. They are measuring rubber and telling themselves that it's a real limb. They are looking at prints Patterson laid into the earth himself as if what they see on the film had to have made them.
The problem is that they are approaching the film as if everything Roger Patterson said is true. None of it is. So they begin with the notion that this must be real and try to make their "investigations" fit their theory. That's not science.
If the question is whether this is a suit or not - then go to the experts. Not a guy in charge of animation at Disney or make-up men inclined to keep the hoax going. Check out what real pros do in this area and the history of creature suits. You'll begin to see that this is what is on the film.
Below -- you can see that the monster hugging all of us cannot possibly be human. He must be "unhuman" according to Dr. Meldrum's calculations. I can only tell you that he's really a skinny kid and his arms are inside that suit.
- Dfoot
