Cont: All things Trump + Russia Part 3

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BobTheCoward said:
If it makes you feel better, I think CE's side is more wrong of the two sides.
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I don't think there are two sides if that is party lines. Robert Parry described it very well in my quotation of his article: There are people who believe in democracy, which can only work if the people are somehow truthfully informed, and there are people who don't, and run their spin operations according to what they want the deplorables to believe. Your "third side" game trying to enforce pseudo-skepticism is a rather boring side note.
 
Childlike Empress said:
I don't think there are two sides if that is party lines. Robert Parry described it very well in my quotation of his article: There are people who believe in democracy, which can only work if the people are somehow truthfully informed, and there are people who don't, and run their spin operations according to what they want the deplorables to believe. Your "third side" game trying to enforce pseudo-skepticism is a rather boring side note.
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There is nothing pseudo about high standards.
 
NoahFence said:
Well it (collusion) can't be proven to anyone yet.

All we have is what's publicly available, and even you have to admit it's pretty damning.
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And more damning by the minute.

The Simpson/Fusion GPS transcript released by the legendary Diane Feinstein today total discredited Grassley's and Graham's BS letter seeking to discredit C. Steele. That letter was shown to be the fraud that it was.

Drip drip drip...
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
And more damning by the minute.

The Simpson/Fusion GPS transcript released by the legendary Diane Feinstein today total discredited Grassley's and Graham's BS letter seeking to discredit C. Steele. That letter was shown to be the fraud that it was.

Drip drip drip...
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I rather think the Grassley and Graham letter is what prompted Feinstein's action. Simply too McCarthyite to let pass.
 
Grassley & co would like us to believe the releasing of the GPS testimony transcript makes it more difficult to get reliable testimony from future interviewees?? Yeah, right. That lot are doing all they can to soft pedal the damning revelations and shift blame, not get to the full truth. Partisan, political hatchet men.
 
CapelDodger said:
I rather think the Grassley and Graham letter is what prompted Feinstein's action. Simply too McCarthyite to let pass.
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Undoubtedly.

What's fascinating and why I say this makes Feinstein legend is the status of these three Senators. Grassley and Graham made no-ethics,-shame-on-them fools of themselves trying to put innuendo out that Steele was criminally partisan when clearly he heroically put his concern for the danger the US was possibly in above his own income and position. He's not even a US citizen and look how he valued the US's welfare. Grassley and Graham should be ashamed, seriously, I mean that.
 
Lurch said:
Grassley & co would like us to believe the releasing of the GPS testimony transcript makes it more difficult to get reliable testimony from future interviewees?? Yeah, right. That lot are doing all they can to soft pedal the damning revelations and shift blame, not get to the full truth. Partisan, political hatchet men.
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And don't forget, Fusion GPS was calling for the release of the transcript.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Well, I can understand why Simpson has been calling for a few weeks for this transcript to be released.
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It's obvious - Hillary Clinton paid Simpson and Steele for the dossier, therefore Simpson will do anything he can to hurt Trump, and Feinstein, a Dem, will do anything to help.

How the transcript hurts Trump is not clear, but it must, otherwise it wouldn't have been covered up, would it? Stands to reason.
 
Lurch said:
Grassley & co would like us to believe the releasing of the GPS testimony transcript makes it more difficult to get reliable testimony from future interviewees?? Yeah, right. That lot are doing all they can to soft pedal the damning revelations and shift blame, not get to the full truth. Partisan, political hatchet men.
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Desperate stuff, no doubt about it.

Per the Russia thing, the Republicans are completely invested in The Steele Dossier as the Keystone Domino that all else depends on, and Hillary Clinton paid for it! Down come all the other dominos and that's that.

In fact, of course, the Trump Tower Meeting will still stand tall and proud amid the toppled debris as befits any edifice bearing that celebrated name.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Undoubtedly.

What's fascinating and why I say this makes Feinstein legend is the status of these three Senators. Grassley and Graham made no-ethics,-shame-on-them fools of themselves trying to put innuendo out that Steele was criminally partisan when clearly he heroically put his concern for the danger the US was possibly in above his own income and position. He's not even a US citizen and look how he valued the US's welfare. Grassley and Graham should be ashamed, seriously, I mean that.
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"Heroically" is over-egging it, I think. He acted on principle, no doubt, but I'm sure he's faced more credible threats than Grassley and Graham in his time, and had Trump not won (an unlikely prospect right up to the point it happened, a point in time which will live in incredulity) he wouldn't have even faced that.

That said, Grassley and Graham should be ashamed, and should ask themselves how they've been drawn so far down this path in defence of such an unworthy hero.
 
CapelDodger said:
"Heroically" is over-egging it, I think. He acted on principle, no doubt, but I'm sure he's faced more credible threats than Grassley and Graham in his time, and had Trump not won (an unlikely prospect right up to the point it happened, a point in time which will live in incredulity) he wouldn't have even faced that.

That said, Grassley and Graham should be ashamed, and should ask themselves how they've been drawn so far down this path in defence of such an unworthy hero.
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We have no evidence of much of the stuff claimed in the transcript.
 
BobTheCoward said:
Poorly alleged.
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I don't think the tl;dr version works either. Putin could not have been counting on a Trump victory, so what exactly would be the purpose of any Russian meddling? If the point was merely to mess with our heads, they've probably succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. If the purpose was to get Trump elected - well, that would have been kind of a long shot, wouldn't it?

Russia's a mystery, Trump's a mystery, but are they the same mystery? It seems they must be connected but I'm not sure how. Money laundering makes the most sense to me, but one questionable venture involved Azerbaijan, not Russia, with evidence that people connected to Iran's Revolutionary Guard might have been laundering money. There's been Russian money buying Trump condos in NYC but I'm not sure of the scale. I expect Mueller to "follow the money," so presumably we will know more someday. I do think he's going beyond the initial scope of his investigation, but that doesn't mean it's illegitimate. I want to see him get to the bottom of any shady deals that could qualify as racketeering, but from what we know right now the strongest case against Trump is based on his ill-advised attempts to derail the investigation - having nothing to do directly with "Russian collusion."

Disclaimer: I am not caught up on the details like the contents of the GPS transcript. Like a_unique_person I am a little overwhelmed by the back-and-forth dealings of the past couple of weeks.
 
NoahFence said:
I got the "duh"

The dude has been neck deep in Russia for decades. Use your brain once in a while.
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The sketchier end of US finance and professional politics have been neck-deep in Russia since the rise of the oligarchs in the early 90's, and is well-represented in what passes for Trump's circle. Stir the ant-heap and you'll find connections, but they're not necessarily significant Trump barely has a walk-on part in Manafort's career, for instance.

The oligarchs knew how Russia worked and could get things done over there, but they didn't know how to navigate the oceans of international finance or run a political campaign. For that expertise they turned to the US.
 
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