Cont: All things Trump + Russia Part 3

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CapelDodger said:
"Heroically" is over-egging it, I think. He acted on principle, no doubt, but I'm sure he's faced more credible threats than Grassley and Graham in his time, and had Trump not won (an unlikely prospect right up to the point it happened, a point in time which will live in incredulity) he wouldn't have even faced that.

That said, Grassley and Graham should be ashamed, and should ask themselves how they've been drawn so far down this path in defence of such an unworthy hero.
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Feinstein is a she, and she's in her 80s and has been a Senator for decades. She began her career in politics in San Francisco where one of her colleagues, a famous gay politician activist in SF, Harvey Milk, was murdered by a nut-job, the disgruntled Dan White, out to shoot the mayor, Mayor Moscone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Milk

I'm not quite sure of your "over-egging it" comment, but this was a very big deal.
 
BobTheCoward said:
We have no evidence of much of the stuff claimed in the transcript.
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We have evidence that efforts were made to conceal the transcript, and that efforts are still being made to distract from its content by shifting the conversation to the circumstances of its release. Which is intriguing in itself, isn't it?
 
A hypothetical:

I decided to hire a PI to investigate my wife because I think she might be cheating on me. The investigator not only finds that she's cheating, but she's also had some people murdered. The PI tells me about all of it and calls the police because of the murder.

According to Trumpublicans, my wife should not be investigated because I hired a PI and it's obvious that I have a bias against my wife.

Seriously, this is how their attack on the Steele Dossier is. They want Americans to ignore the crimes because Steel was hired by the wrong person (ignoring that Steel was first hired by a Republican.)
 
Stacko said:
Another thing we've learned is that Alexander Downer....
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Alexander Downer was previously Foreign Minister of Australia and minister in charge of the Australian Secret Intelligence Service.

Of all the people to get drunk with, and tell secrets about Russians and Trump, Downer was probably not a good choice to tell this to. :)
 
CapelDodger said:
You referred to Steele acting "heroically", which is what I responded to. I have the greatest respect for Feinstein and the legend she has made of her life and works, and that's only so far.
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OK, my misunderstanding. Here's why Steele was heroic. He's a private citizen. He was hired to investigate a Trump Russia connection. He found evidence there might be a blackmail issue going on with a US candidate for POTUS. He informed his employer, Fusion GPS, of the serious situation he had uncovered. They didn't know what to do with the information, would the FBI or CIA believe them if they reported it? Steele did and had contacts in mind so he contacted them.

In the meantime the FBI already was on the case and the Steele dossier corroborated the information they had. But given the [fill in the blank with derogatory names because the FBI and Comey piss me off] at the FBI were so worried someone might blame them for interfering with the election, they kept their investigation very secret. If Comey hadn't had a double standard about disclosing Clinton investigation material I would have more respect for them.

But he didn't.

So back to Steele. He was truly concerned. We are talking about an experienced M5 (M6?) agent here, not just some flunky investigator. He acted and shared what he knew with McCain.

That's heroic in my book, above and beyond the call of duty. It doesn't have **** to do with partisanship. It has to do with recognizing a serious problem and acting on it despite no expectation of a reward for doing so.
 
thaiboxerken said:
A hypothetical:

I decided to hire a PI to investigate my wife because I think she might be cheating on me. The investigator not only finds that she's cheating, but she's also had some people murdered. The PI tells me about all of it and calls the police because of the murder.

According to Trumpublicans, my wife should not be investigated because I hired a PI and it's obvious that I have a bias against my wife.

Seriously, this is how their attack on the Steele Dossier is. They want Americans to ignore the crimes because Steel was hired by the wrong person (ignoring that Steel was first hired by a Republican.)
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QFT
 
Senator Feinstein just engaged in some pretty impressive Capitol Hill judo. The transcript kind of makes it hard for Fusion GPS and Steele to be painted as the bad guys.
 
Ya, Grassley is angry saying that Feinstein has undermined the integrity of the Senate Investigation. The reality is that she exposed the lack of integrity and corrupt behavior of the GOP Senate "investigators."
 
thaiboxerken said:
They want Americans to ignore the crimes because Steel was hired by the wrong person (ignoring that Steel was first hired by a Republican.)
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Fusion GPS was first hired by a Republican. After 9 months of investigation the funding changed to someone who was connected to Clinton and the DNC and then Fusion GPS hired Steele. It's important not to get Fusion and Steele confused or conflated. Steele was an outside, independent contractor hired by Fusion GPS.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
OK, my misunderstanding. Here's why Steele was heroic. He's a private citizen. He was hired to investigate a Trump Russia connection. He found evidence there might be a blackmail issue going on with a US candidate for POTUS. He informed his employer, Fusion GPS, of the serious situation he had uncovered. They didn't know what to do with the information, would the FBI or CIA believe them if they reported it? Steele did and had contacts in mind so he contacted them.

In the meantime the FBI already was on the case and the Steele dossier corroborated the information they had. But given the [fill in the blank with derogatory names because the FBI and Comey piss me off] at the FBI were so worried someone might blame them for interfering with the election, they kept their investigation very secret. If Comey hadn't had a double standard about disclosing Clinton investigation material I would have more respect for them.

But he didn't.

So back to Steele. He was truly concerned. We are talking about an experienced M5 (M6?) agent here, not just some flunky investigator. He acted and shared what he knew with McCain.

That's heroic in my book, above and beyond the call of duty. It doesn't have **** to do with partisanship. It has to do with recognizing a serious problem and acting on it despite no expectation of a reward for doing so.
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SIS - secret intelligence service - (MI5 and MI6 have not existed since the end of the WW2). They live in the big green building next to Vauxhall bridge on the unfashionable south side of the river,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIS_Building#/media/File:SIS_building_(26327425611).jpg
the security service (ex MI5) live on the more fashionable north side of the river.
 
As for the statement that this transcript makes it hard to call in future witnesses like Kushner, there are a few things that ring false about that. Firstly, the Republicans have been talking for a while about wrapping the investigation up, and the Democrats have reported being frustrated about Republicans blocking their efforts to interview more people in relation to the investigation.

Secondly, if this transcript does make it harder to interview people like Kushner, then what do the Republicans' efforts to discredit Mueller and the DOJ do their investigation?

It seems to me that the worst thing Feinstein has done is to accelerate the end of the Congressional investigation - an investigation that the Republicans have been seeking to end for a while, and which Gowdy has all-but-said is largely irrelevant - and to help undo some of the undermining of Mueller's investigation. So the net result is that it has helped to engender a situation in which those responsible for Russian interference in the US election are more likely to be brought to justice, even if it has harmed one of the investigations into that subject.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Ya, Grassley is angry saying that Feinstein has undermined the integrity of the Senate Investigation. The reality is that she exposed the lack of integrity and corrupt behavior of the GOP Senate "investigators."
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I think that laying bare the total absence of integrity and utter corruption of the GOP slime leading the investigation is a pretty good way to undermine its integrity.

Just not the way Grassley was trying to suggest.
 
Craig4 said:
Senator Feinstein just engaged in some pretty impressive Capitol Hill judo. The transcript kind of makes it hard for Fusion GPS and Steele to be painted as the bad guys.
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Remember you are in NTT (new Trump times), facts mean nothing any longer, the Republicans have already "won" on this point, people who would vote Republican will have heard its a fake dossier paid for by Clinton.
 
Darat said:
Remember you are in NTT (new Trump times), facts mean nothing any longer, the Republicans have already "won" on this point, people who would vote Republican will have heard its a fake dossier paid for by Clinton.
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The times are made for Trump, the times made Trump. He suits them perfectly, he is successful because he suits them.
 
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