8 out of 8 at Citgo station

Wow 30 pages of nothing from the Truthers.

If the aircraft is supposed to have flown over the Pentagon where is it now?
Where did it go?

Depends on what it was,,,,,
If it was merely a 'decoy' then it flew on to its secret base somewhere or another(specificity not being a strong point among CiT/PfT on such issues).

However, it may have been Flt 77 and the whereabouts of Flt 77 and the souls on board is the kicker. The plane that witnesses saw may have been Flt 77 or , if it was a decoy, the aircraft was shadowed and 'replaced' on radar by the decoy, then flown onto a secret location.
Either way the actual Flt 77 and its people were flown to a secret location, the passengers and crew de-planed and either killed or offered lots of money and privilages and a new identity. The aircraft was then either cut up and scrapped or flown below radar out to sea and ditched.

At least these are the senarios that have been postulated on various 9/11 conspiracy forums including, IIRC PfT's and CiT's
 
This thread is a monument to CE and his ability to string so many people along for so long.

Well done!


For everyone else, why?
 
Depends on what it was,,,,,
If it was merely a 'decoy' then it flew on to its secret base somewhere or another(specificity not being a strong point among CiT/PfT on such issues).

However, it may have been Flt 77 and the whereabouts of Flt 77 and the souls on board is the kicker. The plane that witnesses saw may have been Flt 77 or , if it was a decoy, the aircraft was shadowed and 'replaced' on radar by the decoy, then flown onto a secret location.
Either way the actual Flt 77 and its people were flown to a secret location, the passengers and crew de-planed and either killed or offered lots of money and privilages and a new identity. The aircraft was then either cut up and scrapped or flown below radar out to sea and ditched.

At least these are the senarios that have been postulated on various 9/11 conspiracy forums including, IIRC PfT's and CiT's



But why bother???? Thats the question I want answered. A plane would do everything faked damage would do so why not just use the plane? Its not as if they had to pay for them !
 
But why bother???? Thats the question I want answered. A plane would do everything faked damage would do so why not just use the plane? Its not as if they had to pay for them !

That's the one question the Truthers will never answer. Using a plane strips away all the complications and contradictions that their wild theories need.
 
But why bother???? Thats the question I want answered. A plane would do everything faked damage would do so why not just use the plane? Its not as if they had to pay for them !

Bee-caaaause,:boggled: a huge, complicated, hopelessly complex and unneccessary Rube-Goldberg device-like conspiracy employs more NWO operatives and allows various departments to inflate their annual budgets.

At least that's the best I can come up with. Perhaps CE has a better explanation?
 
Ah, i read the first half page of that thread now, Achim. I was clearly mistaken - you are not deceived.

Correct me if i'm wrong when i count you on Option 3.




1)
apathoid
BCR
beachnut
DGM
funk de fino

2)
-

3)
achimspok
Caustic Logic

4)
Algebra34
Childlike Empress
mudlark

5) CIT is a disinfo campaign
achimspok

No, thanks. I'll pass. Know what, Achim, among us twoofers? If the truth movement is not a cult, i'd suggest you stick to topics like WTC you are well informed about and try to get something done, instead of ignorantly accusing people of being liars who have done more than their fair share to investigate 9/11. You base your opinion on deceptive 2nd hand material.
No, the problem is a bit more difficult. See, I was at P4T, helped Rob with the WTC thing, alalyzed the UA175 flightpath from the videos, all those weird things... Some day - out of nowhere - two clowns appeared on the scene. Accidentally at the very same time when the whole No Plane nonsense fell appart. However...
I used the "first hand" material like the CIT videos. And if you do so then you will see how the Zackham testimony was "erased" because the CIT clowns KNEW that she must lying because she had a suspicous jewish name wearing a crucifix.
They put Sucherman behind trees against his testimony. They had shown that old cab driver a picture with their own and wrong flightpath. That old cabby saw that path, knew he was somehow beneath the plane and these clowns record him saying "no I wasn't on the bridge I was more over there" and he probably meant "underneath the plane".
Morin states (in the CIT video) that he was "inside" looking "outside". In other words, he was between the wings of the Navy Annex looking south. CIT simply turned him 180° to make the statement fit.
CIT never asked Lagasse about his initial statement and early emails and the contradicting testimonies he gave back then. Lagasse and Brooks took the same after work shower cabin for years and never talked a word about that? ...but Brooks should have heard Lagasse on the radio immediatly after.
The Citgo surveillance shows that the employees there ran to the south. No collective attention (due to a loud noise may be) at any time points towards north. All these cemetery workers saw a big plane right above the Annex and probably had no scale in the sky.
One of them describes himself beneath the wing. His college saw it behind a tree south of him. Simply put both together and you get an impossible situation.
You have Storti interviewed by these clowns. Storti virtually drew the official flight path south of the Annex. CIT decided to not trust him until they "will have inspected his balcony". Even Roberts statement fits exactly to a south path where the plane indeed looked like flying over the parking until it disappeared behing the building and crashed. His view to the east was totally blocked. He wouldn't have seen a "fly away" plane even if it would have been there. So CIT decided to turn the plane above the roof in some real crazy maneuver. The turned plane now headed straight for International Airport and no one saw it???
Btw, the turn above the roof requires a velocity that slow that the plane would have dropped right on top of the Pentagon. ...same for the CIT interpretation of the Boger interview (12 seconds from the Annex to the roof).

Dear CE, I discussed that nonsense at P4T but these clowns were not able to answer one single question. The only Aldo post in the whole thread was "I dunno LOL".

On the other hand I went through the entire FDR. I had the paper half a year earlier and I had - I think - some real bad questions for Warren Stutt and Frank Legge. They answered all questions and the answers were 100% satisfying.
May be a tiny result of my questions is that the actual paper doesn't mention that the FDR recorded rapid deceleration (at least I didn't found that earlier statement) because I suggested that the cockpit was destroyed including the sensor and a "zero" output of the sensor resulted in -1.08333 "longitudinal acceleration" due to the interpretation of "zero" for the FDR (Format is y = m*x + b: m = 0.002036, b = -1.08333). So it is possible that -1 was recorded in the back of the plane while the front already was gone.
Of course I doubted that deceleration because I previously studied the WTC crashes and the deceleration due to cockpit impact wasn't worth to mention.

Why do I tell you that? Because I really dealt with all sides of arguments regarding the Pentagon.
I don't know why any terrorist should have chosen the difficult and dangerous path above the VEDOT and down into that hollow ground while the south entrance was wide open.
I don't believe that Hanjour was able to do that and to pull that plane out of dive some feet above ground.
I don't believe that 3 cessna pilots endangered their mission by flying those planes near some unknown limit while knowing that they probaly either lose control or lose the plane in mid air. It's simply makes no sense.
But I know that the CIT guys lie. That's why I call them liars.
 
Last edited:
I used the "first hand" material like the CIT videos. And if you do so then you will see how the Zackham testimony was "erased" because the CIT clowns KNEW that she must lying because she had a suspicous jewish name wearing a crucifix.


Really? That's a helluva story, Achim. Weird guys. Well, I wasn't that far away from your option 5), was I? Disinfo, you say. Interesting.
 
5) CIT is a disinfo campaign
achimspok ...
911 truth debunks 911 truth.

I don't know why any terrorist should have chosen the difficult and dangerous path above the VEDOT and down into that hollow ground while the south entrance was wide open.
He was aiming at the Pentagon. The path is not "dangerous", or was the path armed with a weapon. The lamppost are breakaway, they can't damage VW let alone a 757. Wing beats breakaway lampposts. Dangerous? Based on what?

I don't believe that Hanjour was able to do that and to pull that plane out of dive some feet above ground.
Hani never pulled out of the dive, never leveled off. Was it the distorted-fish-eye lens that fooled you, or not looking at the FDR data or understanding aerodynamics? Even instructors who flew with Hani agree he could have crashed into the Pentagon. There is only one course for landing, infinite courses to crash into a building. Crashing is easy except for Balsamo who can't do it in the safety of a simulators.

Hani did not pull out, the plane was going down.

I don't believe that 3 Cessna pilots endangered their mission by flying those planes near some unknown limit while knowing that they probably either lose control or lose the plane in mid air. It's simply makes no sense.
The terrorists rented simulator time, and were able to control large heavy jets in simulators good enough to crash into buildings.

Flight 11 hit 10 knots below Vd, a real live certified speed. Oops, not high sped here.
Flight 93 crashed, the terrorists were beat by people who figured out 911 in minutes!
Flight 175 crashed at 510 knots, only .76 MACH, top speed is .86 MACH and 767 went to .99 MACH and did not blow up, the wings did not fall off, etc.
Flight 77 was over Vmo for 25 seconds, not long enough to do much more than CRASH into the Pentagon. Hani could not line up on course to land on a 40 foot runway, but he could line up and HIT a 900 plus wide building. Not a feat of flying, it is called crashing, failure. A good landing requires all people on board live and the plane does not run off the runway. Crashing requires no skill, most american kids off the street can crash a 757/767 into a large building.

Boeing jet have great wings, they were built to last a long time, 25 seconds for Flight 77 over Vmo is not a big deal!

But I know that the CIT guys lie. That's why I call them liars.
And those dolts are the investigators for Balsamo.

You identify CIT as liars, but repeat the delusions of 911 truth on aircraft speed, Hani can't fly, and more. CIT made up a north flight path based on their stupidity. The FDR shows a pilot who is sloppy, flight 77 was hand flown, proved by the FDR. 77 was not remote control, no special pilot, just Hani, a terrorist killing people as promised in the 90s by UBL. DNA, RADAR, and the FDR all prove CIT wrong.
 
...

... They independently and unanimously describe a flight path so different from the official one, that a plane approaching on this path couldn't cause the physical damage. ...
So, what's your opinion?

1) The witnesses are all mistaken in the same bizarre way.
2) They are actors payed by CIT to pose as the real on record witnesses.
3) They are part of a disinfo operation that fooled CIT.
4) They honestly and accurately describe what they have witnessed.

1) apathoid BCR beachnut DGM funk de fino

2) -

3) achimspok Caustic Logic

4) Algebra34 Childlike Empress mudlark

1) The witnesses are honest and CIT took what the said and twisted it.
2) CIT had no clue how to investigate an aircraft incident; NOT QUALIFIED
3) CIT are lairs and morons, they don't know what direction south is.
4) The witnesses all describe the real flight path, what 911 truth has to call official since they are paranoid conspiracy theorist who can't figure out 911.

What? You have no clue what is going on. CIT fooled you, as their witnesses on video point south, to the real flight path. CIT are morons, this means those who fall for their lies are what? undefined, or what?


The witnesses are honest and said what they saw, then CIT took what they said and added stupid, and made up fake flight paths. The CIT witnesses all support the "official" story. It only takes a grade school education and a compass to figure out. Did you forget your compass?
 
"I don't know why any terrorist should have chosen the difficult and dangerous path above the VEDOT and down into that hollow ground while the south entrance was wide open."

what makes you think he chose??? He saw he had overshot, circled around and went straight in.

I don't believe that Hanjour was able to do that and to pull that plane out of dive some feet above ground.

Argument from Incredulity. Is it not just as likely he nearly screwed up and hit short rather than planned that approach.

"I don't believe that 3 cessna pilots endangered their mission by flying those planes near some unknown limit while knowing that they probably either lose control or lose the plane in mid air. It's simply makes no sense. "

What unknown limit??? It possibly/probably? not even possible to get a 757 to structural failure speed near sea level in a shallow dive. there was at least on engineer amongst the terrorists, they would have know that KE increase by the square of velocity ie faster means a much harder impact.

But I know that the CIT guys lie. That's why I call them liars.
[/QUOTE]

We can agree on that:)
 
911 truth debunks 911 truth.

He was aiming at the Pentagon. The path is not "dangerous", or was the path armed with a weapon. The lamppost are breakaway, they can't damage VW let alone a 757. Wing beats breakaway lampposts. Dangerous? Based on what?

Hani never pulled out of the dive, never leveled off. Was it the distorted-fish-eye lens that fooled you, or not looking at the FDR data or understanding aerodynamics? Even instructors who flew with Hani agree he could have crashed into the Pentagon. There is only one course for landing, infinite courses to crash into a building. Crashing is easy except for Balsamo who can't do it in the safety of a simulators.
rottop00140.png

Let me note that you have a very small range to place the plane according to the radio height. The Pitch for that last second according to the FDR was in the range of 2.3° ... 1.2°.
According to USGS + the two last radio heights + estimated lamppost damage the plane had a pitch of about 2.9°.
However it didn't flew a straight line + it was very fast + it vibrated + it was very close to the ground...

Hani did not pull out, the plane was going down.
Guess he smoked a cigar meanwhile.

Flight 11 hit 10 knots below Vd, a real live certified speed. Oops, not high sped here.
But wrong. AA11 hit at about 490mph.

The "Dive Velocity" VD is 420 kts. CAS (calibrated airspeed) is a speed that is a maximum for certification flight tests accomplished under 14 CFR Part 25.253 High Speed Characteristics and has not necessarily been achieved but is far above VFC (390 kts. 450 mph) which is the maximum speed at which stability characteristics must be demonstrated (14 CFR 25.253(b)). Obviously these arabs endangered their mission.

Hani Hanjour practices on a Boeing 737-200 simulator for a total of 21 hours at the JetTech International flight school in Phoenix, Arizona. Hanjour also attends ground school and pays just under $7,500 for the training. Despite only completing 21 of his originally scheduled 34 hours of simulator training, according to the FBI this is the best-trained of the four hijacker pilots (see Spring-Summer 2001). However, an instructor comments: “Student made numerous errors during performance… including a lack of understanding of some basic concepts… Some of the concepts involved in large jet systems cannot be fully comprehended by someone with only small prop plane experience.” [US District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia; Alexandria Division, 7/31/2006 pdf file] The school contacts the FAA to warn it of Hanjour’s poor English and flying skills
 
I think you're above simply linking to a youtube video with no comment or explanation, CE
 

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom