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Cont: 2024 Election Thread part 3

I am in a minority here since I refuse to beleive that every Republican is evil.
Nah. There are lots of decent Republicans, especially at the bottom. There's also lots of Republicans that didn't vote Trump. That I consider Trump voters to be politically ignorant, delusional, and/or traitors is not at all the same thing as calling all Republicans evil. There's more of an argument to be had about the Republican political establishment, of course, given the driving factors there. Going a bit further, we all have our better and worse sides - but how they manifest does matter.
 
Applause.

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Trump isn't using fascist tactics at all, right?

The three pillars of fascism

(1) Demonization of domestic enemies
"Fascism creates a myth of victimhood, that the majority population is in a humiliating decline from a past greatness because of singled-out minority populations. It’s an us-against-them crisis, the myth goes. The targeted racial, ethnic, religious or gender minorities, and the “liberals” who support them, are thus framed as not just opponents but enemies, demonized so the majority can feel justified in hating and repressing them.

In fact, “Make America Great Again” is the quintessential fascist slogan. It’s a myth that celebrates the good ole days of white supremacy."

"Fascism, going far beyond simple racism, requires the debasement of scapegoats. It insists that the out-groups “deserve” punishment and the in-group should feel the pleasure of inflicting humiliation. (“Ha, ha! Owning the libs!”) The fascist leaders, in turn, praise followers for that crudity and cruelty, releasing them from all constraints of law, reason and decency. (“Let’s go Brandon!”)

Aside from enriching the rich, MAGA policies are overwhelmingly attacks on the out-groups. They are intended to hurt and mock, and thereby satisfy and entertain the right-wing base. The Trump Administration could have enacted positive programs; it could have passed a $1 trillion infrastructure bill, for example. But programs to proactively benefit Americans, even white Americans, were never the point. The GOP didn’t even write a party platform in 2020, for the first time in 144 years. That’s because their cause had devolved to a fascist cult of white victimhood."

(2) Preposterous lies
"Fascism relies on outrageous and absurd disinformation, “Orwellian” lies, designed to distort its supporters’ perception of reality, bending “truth” to fit the fascist mythology. Because it is based on lies, fascism must be anti-intellectual, anti-science and anti-logic in order to defend itself, which means it must oppose and attack news media outside its control. Trump’s continuous attacks on the free press, calling them “fake news” and the “enemy of the people” could not be more stereotypically fascist."

"
Fascism takes advantage of confirmation bias to reinforce beliefs with indiscriminate lies. In fact, the idea of fascism is that its foundational myths are more truthful than whatever facts stand in the way. So indiscriminate lies are “truth” to the fascist leader, and they become sincerely believed truths to the followers, with objective reality waved away.

This is Orwellian, akin to “War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.” It is a manifestation of the fascist “Big Lie,” generally described as, “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” Or, as Madeleine Albright quotes Benito Mussolini, “The crowd doesn’t have to know, all they have to do is believe and submit to being shaped.”

(3) Contempt for democratic institutions

"Fascism encourages contempt for democratic institutions, particularly elections, and the rule of law.
Instead, it calls on the majority group to turn over power to a strongman and his lieutenants, while glorifying the use of violence in support of fascist myths and goals.

To persuade people to surrender their democratic power, fascists attack democratic leaders and institutions. "

"Some historians were unwilling to say that the MAGA movement is fascism before January 6, 2021, because violence is a prerequisite of fascism. But now, MAGA acolytes commit, plan or threaten violence all the time. There have been MAGA threats and violence against Democrats and Republicans, against doctors and teachers, against law enforcement and judges.
All of this is unique in American history. It’s true we’ve always had nutcases and extremists, but rank-and-file conservatives have, in prior years, honored our Constitution and democratic traditions. This wholesale rejection of the American system is astonishing and disgraceful. It is clear that the MAGA movement will stop at nothing because, to them, power is everything.

MAGA is fascism"
 
I am in a minority here since I refuse to beleive that every Republican is evil.
Please let us know when any republican exerts any significant pushback against Trump's policies, proposals, nominations, etc. You know, enough to make him reconsider or withdraw them.
 
All too possibly. But then, I've literally watched Republicans declare that their main objective is to try to sabotage the economy for the sake of trying to hurt people financially and heard people try to then say that the
Nah. There are lots of decent Republicans, especially at the bottom. There's also lots of Republicans that didn't vote Trump. That I consider Trump voters to be politically ignorant, delusional, and/or traitors is not at all the same thing as calling all Republicans evil. There's more of an argument to be had about the Republican political establishment, of course, given the driving factors there. Going a bit further, we all have our better and worse sides - but how they manifest does matter.
The other thing is with these recent cabinent picks he is screwing with things, like defense, that Many in the GOP really care about.
Trump voters is a complex issue. Way to simplistic to call the all MAGA. I saw a lot of 'I don't like Trump but he is the lesser of two evils" comments.
I also think many Trump VOters though a lot of his rhetoric was just that..rhetoric. Trump has said a lot of pure BS that never came to pass. Thye though this time was the same. It was'nt.
Trump isn't using fascist tactics at all, right?

The three pillars of fascism

(1) Demonization of domestic enemies
"Fascism creates a myth of victimhood, that the majority population is in a humiliating decline from a past greatness because of singled-out minority populations. It’s an us-against-them crisis, the myth goes. The targeted racial, ethnic, religious or gender minorities, and the “liberals” who support them, are thus framed as not just opponents but enemies, demonized so the majority can feel justified in hating and repressing them.

In fact, “Make America Great Again” is the quintessential fascist slogan. It’s a myth that celebrates the good ole days of white supremacy."

"Fascism, going far beyond simple racism, requires the debasement of scapegoats. It insists that the out-groups “deserve” punishment and the in-group should feel the pleasure of inflicting humiliation. (“Ha, ha! Owning the libs!”) The fascist leaders, in turn, praise followers for that crudity and cruelty, releasing them from all constraints of law, reason and decency. (“Let’s go Brandon!”)

Aside from enriching the rich, MAGA policies are overwhelmingly attacks on the out-groups. They are intended to hurt and mock, and thereby satisfy and entertain the right-wing base. The Trump Administration could have enacted positive programs; it could have passed a $1 trillion infrastructure bill, for example. But programs to proactively benefit Americans, even white Americans, were never the point. The GOP didn’t even write a party platform in 2020, for the first time in 144 years. That’s because their cause had devolved to a fascist cult of white victimhood."

(2) Preposterous lies
"Fascism relies on outrageous and absurd disinformation, “Orwellian” lies, designed to distort its supporters’ perception of reality, bending “truth” to fit the fascist mythology. Because it is based on lies, fascism must be anti-intellectual, anti-science and anti-logic in order to defend itself, which means it must oppose and attack news media outside its control. Trump’s continuous attacks on the free press, calling them “fake news” and the “enemy of the people” could not be more stereotypically fascist."

"
Fascism takes advantage of confirmation bias to reinforce beliefs with indiscriminate lies. In fact, the idea of fascism is that its foundational myths are more truthful than whatever facts stand in the way. So indiscriminate lies are “truth” to the fascist leader, and they become sincerely believed truths to the followers, with objective reality waved away.

This is Orwellian, akin to “War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.” It is a manifestation of the fascist “Big Lie,” generally described as, “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” Or, as Madeleine Albright quotes Benito Mussolini, “The crowd doesn’t have to know, all they have to do is believe and submit to being shaped.”

(3) Contempt for democratic institutions

"Fascism encourages contempt for democratic institutions, particularly elections, and the rule of law.
Instead, it calls on the majority group to turn over power to a strongman and his lieutenants, while glorifying the use of violence in support of fascist myths and goals.

To persuade people to surrender their democratic power, fascists attack democratic leaders and institutions. "

"Some historians were unwilling to say that the MAGA movement is fascism before January 6, 2021, because violence is a prerequisite of fascism. But now, MAGA acolytes commit, plan or threaten violence all the time. There have been MAGA threats and violence against Democrats and Republicans, against doctors and teachers, against law enforcement and judges.
All of this is unique in American history. It’s true we’ve always had nutcases and extremists, but rank-and-file conservatives have, in prior years, honored our Constitution and democratic traditions. This wholesale rejection of the American system is astonishing and disgraceful. It is clear that the MAGA movement will stop at nothing because, to them, power is everything.

MAGA is fascism"

I agree, but, frankly, at this point this has been posted time and time agian here; and you are preaching to the converted.
 
Nah. There are lots of decent Republicans, especially at the bottom. There's also lots of Republicans that didn't vote Trump. That I consider Trump voters to be politically ignorant, delusional, and/or traitors is not at all the same thing as calling all Republicans evil. There's more of an argument to be had about the Republican political establishment, of course, given the driving factors there. Going a bit further, we all have our better and worse sides - but how they manifest does matter.
i'd argue that republicans are a political party and establishment republicans, the leadership, are guiding the party and clearly who people are talking about when they talk about republicans. if you voluntarily consider yourself a part of that group, then this is what the group is up to and you've made peace enough with that to still consider yourself a part of it. it is what it is, even if you wish it wasn't that way.

and honestly, most of the time when people are criticizing republican voters, they say trump supporters, which is really kind of going out of their way to make sure they're differentiating between "reasonable" conservatives and trump supporters. it's one of the reasons i consider conservatives to be the true whiny snowflakes, even that's not enough deferential treatment for them and it always seems to be that way about everything else too. but i digress.

i might agree with a lot of what the dems are saying on a variety of topics, and basically voted for them across the board as the only sane option, but i'd never consider myself a democrat. i'm not a part of the party, i got no loyalty or attachment to them and wouldn't see a criticism of them as a criticism of me.
 
Trump voters is a complex issue. Way to simplistic to call the all MAGA. I saw a lot of 'I don't like Trump but he is the lesser of two evils" comments.
I also think many Trump VOters though a lot of his rhetoric was just that..rhetoric. Trump has said a lot of pure BS that never came to pass. Thye though this time was the same. It was'nt.
on what ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ planet is he the lesser of two evils?
 
I am in a minority here since I refuse to beleive that every Republican is evil.

I don't think every republican is evil but you have to admit, there are precious few among the current crop that are worthy of any respect.

There are a few that will express some concern while stepping out of the way to let Trump run roughshod. There's fewer still that will act to stop it. Let's hope there are enough.
 
Trump voters is a complex issue. Way to simplistic to call the all MAGA. I saw a lot of 'I don't like Trump but he is the lesser of two evils" comments.
I also think many Trump VOters though a lot of his rhetoric was just that..rhetoric. Trump has said a lot of pure BS that never came to pass. Thye though this time was the same. It was'nt.

Hence - ignorant, delusional, and/or traitors. Not all are traitors. Plenty are delusional and/or ignorant.

i might agree with a lot of what the dems are saying on a variety of topics, and basically voted for them across the board as the only sane option, but i'd never consider myself a democrat. i'm not a part of the party, i got no loyalty or attachment to them and wouldn't see a criticism of them as a criticism of me.
I'm slightly different, I suppose. I consider myself a Democrat because I'm a registered Democrat. I chose to register as a Democrat because they have long seemed like the objectively better choice, in short. When it comes to loyalty or attachment, though, I don't really feel anything like that towards the Democratic Party and don't see criticism of the Democratic Party as criticism of me, either. It's just that I'm far more aligned with them, overall. The absurdity of how badly Republicans have been acting for far too long, now, has moved me from splitting my votes between different parties to straight ticket, though. A number of Republican friends and family seem to have internalized being Republican as part of their identity, though, which is something that I doubt that I'll ever viscerally understand.
 
This is fallout from the Election, of course, not the only.

Trump picks RFK Jr. as the Health and Human Services Secretary. One known to be an anti-vaxxer and conspiracy theorist. The worst part is he's being called a vaccine "skeptic", which in the general population totally coopts our use of the word. And people still support that decision. This almost makes me feel worst than when Trump was chosen a second time. Do people learn nothing? It makes me feel like what we're doing here and elsewhere is a waste of time. I know it's not, but f off to those who think I'm being "dramatic". I have been heavily invested in the advancement of intelligence and science in the world, and a couple events just seem to blow that all away in a moment.
 
This is fallout from the Election, of course, not the only.

Trump picks RFK Jr. as the Health and Human Services Secretary. One known to be an anti-vaxxer and conspiracy theorist. And people still support that decision. This almost makes me feel worst than when Trump was chosen a second time. Do people learn nothing? It makes me feel like what we're doing here and elsewhere is a waste of time. I know it's not, but f off to those who think I'm being "dramatic". I have been heavily invested in the advancement of intelligence and science in the world, and a couple events just seem to blow that all away in a moment.
I think people just let economic fear overcome all other considerations.
The worst thing you can do is go for this :we are all doomed: crap that has been popular. Nothing helps Trump more then that.
 
Please let us know when any republican exerts any significant pushback against Trump's policies, proposals, nominations, etc. ...

I have thought for a while now that the problem is the Republican leadership being unable to lead the rank-and-file. Like their beloved cult leader, many rank-and-file Republicans come across as belligerent and vindictive. I think the leadership is afraid of the rank-and-file. Look at what happened to Liz Cheney. she went against the tide and was thrown out on her ear. She was an incumbent beaten in a primary, barely winning a quarter of the vote, beaten by someone who had never held office before but had been endorsed by trump.

I have a hunch some of the GOP leadership rationalize their never publicly opposing trump on the grounds they prefer to 'work from within.' Privately fearing that if they are ever perceived as being disloyal to trump, they'll be on 'the outside looking in.'

It's a bad bad situation.
 
MAGA talking heads on Twitter saying his cabinet picks are smoking out the RINOs that the party needs rid of.
 
I have thought for a while now that the problem is the Republican leadership being unable to lead the rank-and-file. Like their beloved cult leader, many rank-and-file Republicans come across as belligerent and vindictive. I think the leadership is afraid of the rank-and-file. Look at what happened to Liz Cheney. she went against the tide and was thrown out on her ear. She was an incumbent beaten in a primary, barely winning a quarter of the vote, beaten by someone who had never held office before but had been endorsed by trump.

I have a hunch some of the GOP leadership rationalize their never publicly opposing trump on the grounds they prefer to 'work from within.' Privately fearing that if they are ever perceived as being disloyal to trump, they'll be on 'the outside looking in.'

It's a bad bad situation.
Which is why I am so strong a proponent of term limits. If people know they will only be in congress for a few terms, and they cannot make a lift tiem career out of it, reelectin might not be so important and they will make the hard vote more often.
It only takes a few GOPers to block the nominations, given the Dems will vote soldidly against them.
Of course, I given a lot of these nominees a short life span if they get in; they are inept, don't know anything about the deparments they are supposd to manage, they will screw up bigtime, make Donnie look bad, and out they go.
 
I have thought for a while now that the problem is the Republican leadership being unable to lead the rank-and-file. Like their beloved cult leader, many rank-and-file Republicans come across as belligerent and vindictive. I think the leadership is afraid of the rank-and-file. Look at what happened to Liz Cheney. she went against the tide and was thrown out on her ear. She was an incumbent beaten in a primary, barely winning a quarter of the vote, beaten by someone who had never held office before but had been endorsed by trump.

I have a hunch some of the GOP leadership rationalize their never publicly opposing trump on the grounds they prefer to 'work from within.' Privately fearing that if they are ever perceived as being disloyal to trump, they'll be on 'the outside looking in.'

It's a bad bad situation.
If they go and cut ACA and soc sec, a good number of them will be voted out 2026. Trump is a lame duck now.
 
If they go and cut ACA and soc sec, a good number of them will be voted out 2026. Trump is a lame duck now.
That cannot be overstated. And,frankly,His health might break down before that.
And I don't buy the idea there will be some way for him to get in again in 2028 anyway.
And there is no clear heir apparent to the MAGA throne. Don Jr just does not have the Charisma. Vance does not have any real following and is mistrusted as an opportunist.
And I think the cances of the economy tanking before 2026 are good, if Trump really does implement his Tariffs.
 
Matt Gaetz, pervy criminal, leading US "justice". Wow. And what a cabinet of dimbulbs. Trailer park USA is here. Fly swatter time!

Of course, it has always been here. The American Dream was ever a cheap grab-the-cash-and-run proposition, all dollied up like a street walker. What began as brutal settler colonialism, then hid behind a now-disgraced NY statue waving a hanky like a beckoning hooker, "Yoo-hoo!", has revealed itself as what it is and has always been: dedication to a total lack of character, moral spine, and intellectual fortitude in abject, tongue-lolling service of coin.

Here, 30 pieces. Doing the solid you were hoping for.
Such a thing was, loosely, foretold. Google ¨Roosevelt After Inauguration¨ by William Burroughs if you´re interested.

Here he is reading it... NSFW

 

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