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Cont: 2024 Election Thread part 3

SIgh..and the usual edgy, ultra cool nihlistic posters show up.
We don't have time for that crap. Getting tired of people who are treating thsi crisis as an excuse for weak performance art.
 
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dudalb said:
That cannot be overstated. And,frankly,His health might break down before that.
And I don't buy the idea there will be some way for him to get in again in 2028 anyway.
And there is no clear heir apparent to the MAGA throne. Don Jr just does not have the Charisma. Vance does not have any real following and is mistrusted as an opportunist.
And I think the cances of the economy tanking before 2026 are good, if Trump really does implement his Tariffs.
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Rumor has it that 2028 it's going to be Tucker/RFK. And that is not a joke!
 
Show that you are high IQ by signing up to work for the world's richest man for free.

I'm sure he will be inundated.
 
dudalb said:
And I don't buy the idea there will be some way for him to get in again in 2028 anyway.
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Oh, I don't think it would be "again" in 2028. But I can certainly imagine some crisis that would cause the 2028 election to be delayed. What if, for example, the administration created found evidence that the voting system was rigged? Or if the voter registration rolls were imagined found to be corrupted? Or if a large number of down-ballot candidates were alleged to be ineligible? One simply couldn't have an election until such issues were resolved, and that could take, well, years.
 
Stacyhs said:
Do you deny that stupidity knows no race? Because that's what I said. I'm not interested in Trump supporters "hearing me out" because there is NOTHING I could say that would convince them that Trump is unfit for office. They and you have had 8 years of watching that blowhard say and do the most outrageous things like inciting Jan.6, continually lie thousands of times, insult and disparage anyone who dares defy him, and they just handwave away being held liable for sexual assault and being a 34X convicted felon. And you think they, or you, would "hear me out" and somehow finally realize he's entirely unfit to be POTUS? Get real.

I stand by my statement that anyone who cannot see just how horribly unfit Trump is for the office of POTUS is stupid. If they can't see that now they never will and not calling them stupid isn't going to lead to their sudden awaawakening.
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So what you're saying is people who thought Kamala/Biden were deficient at getting illegal immigration under control, and went for Trump... and those who have felt the effect of rampant inflation for 4 years... or getting insight on other issues... that their positions are invalid and not worth your time of day? Even though minorities are some of the most affected demographics by same issues... they're 'stupid'... is this correct? It'll be difficult for the democratic party to recoup their base if they do absolutely nothing for the electorate they need but show hard core contempt.

Mind you, dropping the "assumption bias" of your statement to the side for a moment. Questioning people doesn't involve "winning the argument". I means understanding their reasons and responding the the nuances of their concerns so that the party can ACT on them and persuade them to give another chance.

since this is boiling down to a "no vote for Harris and Vote for Trump = bad!!! I won't waste anymore time. The lowest common denominator argument speaks for itself.
 
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I stand by my statement that anyone who cannot see just how horribly unfit Trump is for the office of POTUS is stupid. If they can't see that now they never will and not calling them stupid isn't going to lead to their sudden awaawakening.
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Grizzly Bear said:
So what you're saying is people who thought Kamala/Biden were deficient at getting illegal immigration under control, and went for Trump... and those who have felt the effect of rampant inflation for 4 years... or getting insight on other issues... that their positions are invalid and not worth your time of day? Even though minorities are some of the most affected demographics by same issues... they're 'stupid'... is this correct? It'll be difficult for the democratic party to recoup their base if they do absolutely nothing for the electorate they need but show hard core contempt.

Mind you, dropping the "assumption bias" of your statement to the side for a moment. Questioning people doesn't involve "winning the argument". I means understanding their reasons and responding the the nuances of their concerns so that the party can ACT on them and persuade them to give another chance.
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I do think a case can be made that anyone who voted for Trump because "Democrats mishandled immigration/the economy" is stupid.

Trump and the MAGAchud built a narrative that was based on emotion. "People with the wrong colored skin are sneaking in" and "Stuff's more expensive" invoke a response that is hard to counteract, even though facts are on the Democrat's side:
- Trump and his supporters actually blocked attempts by Democrats to improve border security
- Last time Trump was in power he left office with the economy in deep recession
So yeah, people thinking "trump will fix things" are taking a position based on ignorance and stupidity.

You can provide all the facts you want to a Trump supporter, but as long as they cling to their "Trump is better because..." claims that are based on ignorance/emotion rather than evidence, then I think it is valid to assume they are 'stupid'.
 
Grizzly Bear said:
So what you're saying is people who thought Kamala/Biden were deficient at getting illegal immigration under control, and went for Trump... and those who have felt the effect of rampant inflation for 4 years... or getting insight on other issues... that their positions are invalid and not worth your time of day? Even though minorities are some of the most affected demographics by same issues... they're 'stupid'... is this correct? It'll be difficult for the democratic party to recoup their base if they do absolutely nothing for the electorate they need but show hard core contempt.

Mind you, dropping the "assumption bias" of your statement to the side for a moment. Questioning people doesn't involve "winning the argument". I means understanding their reasons and responding the the nuances of their concerns so that the party can ACT on them and persuade them to give another chance.

since this is boiling down to a "no vote for Harris and Vote for Trump = bad!!! I won't waste anymore time. The lowest common denominator argument speaks for itself.
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i disagree, it wouldn't be hard. they could just lie and tell them what they want to hear, like the republicans did. they could make wild promises they can't follow through on and just lie when it's convenient. after all, these people are stupid.

but we can't have both parties doing that.

but to me the question really isn't what can the democrats do or did do anyway, they never called anyone stupid. it's primarily people that presumably voted for kamala are calling them stupid, presumably out of frustration that these idiots ◊◊◊◊◊◊ it up and elected the king idiot. rather, i think the question is if sane voters handled this foolishness with kids gloves that the outcome would have been any different, or would the trump voters have found some other fictional grievance to have voted the same way
 
CSPAN
CSPAN
@cspan 19h President-elect Trump on Elon Musk: "He likes this place. I can't get him out of here!...I'm asking him 'what do you do best?' and we were not able to figure it out.
 
dirtywick said:
i disagree, it wouldn't be hard. they could just lie and tell them what they want to hear, like the republicans did. they could make wild promises they can't follow through on and just lie when it's convenient. after all, these people are stupid.

but we can't have both parties doing that.

but to me the question really isn't what can the democrats do or did do anyway, they never called anyone stupid. it's primarily people that presumably voted for kamala are calling them stupid, presumably out of frustration that these idiots ◊◊◊◊◊◊ it up and elected the king idiot. rather, i think the question is if sane voters handled this foolishness with kids gloves that the outcome would have been any different, or
would the trump voters have found some other fictional grievance to have voted the same way
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For the vast majority, highly likely.

To be clear, a lot of the concerns raised are legitimate issues and reasonable things to be concerned about... it's just that the reasoning required to vote for Trump based on those concerns and issues is deeply fallacious to the point that willful blindness is fairly certainly in play. The economy? Inflation? Trump pretty much outright promised to make inflation spike by a lot and cause serious problems for the economy. Massive tariffs on everything to force manufacturing jobs to increase in the US, alone, would do that, before getting to the rest. He did a crap job last time, on top of that, however fondly those so motivated may remember him taking credit for the economy that he inherited and how happily those so motivated want to blame Biden for the crippled economy that Trump left us. Immigration? Trump royally ◊◊◊◊◊◊ things up last time and kept acting to sabotage things on that front even after he was out of office. He's lied like crazy and used all immigrants (definitely including the legal ones) as blatant scapegoats. Similar themes run through pretty much every single legitimate issue and thing to be concerned about.

Voting for Trump was an act of stupidity for the overwhelming share of Trump voters - provided that they actually meant it when they said that things like the economy, immigration, foreign policy, or similar things were motivating their vote.
 
Grizzly Bear said:
So what you're saying is people who thought Kamala/Biden were deficient at getting illegal immigration under control, and went for Trump... and those who have felt the effect of rampant inflation for 4 years... or getting insight on other issues... that their positions are invalid and not worth your time of day?
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I've said exactly why voting for Trump was stupid several times now. Maybe you need to read them again. The fact that Trump and his minions have repeatedly lied about immigration and inflation under Biden while fueling hatred with their inflammatory "us against them" fascist rhetoric and Trump personally shooting down a BI-PARTISAN immigration plan from Congress in order to use it as a self-serving campaign point is just another fact that proves he doesn't give a damn about anything but himself.

Trump has repeatedly lied about inflation, including that it's “we have inflation like very few people have ever seen before, probably the worst in our nation’s history” during the debate with Harris, neither of which is true. Inflation reached a "high of 9.1% in June 2022, it rose to more than 14% in the 1980s, 11.1% in 1974, 10.9% in 1942 and 17.8% in 1917." What he does not mention is that "Inflation has since fallen to 2.9% year-over-year as of July, the lowest level since March 2021, and rose 0.2% from June." And many economist have stated that Trump's tariffs with cause inflation to rise.

Additionally, Trump purposefully never mentions that inflation was a post-Covid worldwide problem and the US had then and has now a current lower inflation that most of the rest of the world, including Europe. Currently, the US has a rate of 2.6% while Europe averages 3.3%.

Grizzly Bear said:
Even though minorities are some of the most affected demographics by same issues... they're 'stupid'... is this correct? It'll be difficult for the democratic party to recoup their base if they do absolutely nothing for the electorate they need but show hard core contempt.
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Your attempt to make this a racial issue has already been answered: stupidity knows no race. Anyone, regardless of race, who voted for Trump after 8 years of him clearly demonstrating just how unfit he is for office, is stupid.
The Dems don't need to "recoup their base" because 83% of African-Americans voted for Harris" and "8 in 10 Black voters supported Harris". Black women overwhelmingly (91%) voted for Harris and only "about 3 in 10 Black men under the age of 45 went for Trump. This indicates it may have been more about gender than race for this increase from about 1.5 in 10 Black men < 45 in 2020 who voted for Trump.

Grizzly Bear said:
Mind you, dropping the "assumption bias" of your statement to the side for a moment. Questioning people doesn't involve "winning the argument". I means understanding their reasons and responding the the nuances of their concerns so that the party can ACT on them and persuade them to give another chance.

since this is boiling down to a "no vote for Harris and Vote for Trump = bad!!! I won't waste anymore time. The lowest common denominator argument speaks for itself.
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Facts speak for themselves. Trump has played to the lowest common denominators: authoritarianism, fear, racism, bigotry, sexism, and stupidity.
 
I see the MAGA Nonce Fan Club is now arguing Gaetz doesn’t require an FBI background check.
Of course he doesn’t.
 
Andy_Ross said:
I see the MAGA Nonce Fan Club is now arguing Gaetz doesn’t require an FBI background check.
Of course he doesn’t.
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The anti-DEI crowd coming out against unqualified white guys getting background checks for incredibly important jobs is starting to make me suspect there might be something else behind their disdain for women and Black people in positions of power…
 
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