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Cont: The Trump Presidency (XXX)

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dudalb said:
Maybe to you, maybe not to a lawyer.
And I can understant being cautious. You do not want to make thiws look like a political vendetta. he needs every legal t crossed and I dotted.
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Exactly. The DOJ gets one shot at this so they better have a case beyond solid.
 
dudalb said:
They artical also ignore that the feds are not the only ones that can indict Trump.
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True, but to induct Trump a prosecutor would have to show criminal activity occurred in their jurisdiction.

And many of the potential states that might indict Trump are either Republican controlled (thus likely to give him a free pass) or treat the crimes as a civil case.

The 2 places where Trump is at most legal jeopardy...
- new York. But Bragg was too timid to indict Trump for bank or tax fraud. He is going after him for the stormy Daniels payment but that seems to be such a minor crime compared to everything else he has done (and he restarted that investigation late too)
-georgia. There is a chance that a local prosecutor could indict Trump for his election interference. But the republican controlled state government is trying to take action to block the prosecutorion




Sent from my moto e using Tapatalk
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
You think he has a team? :sdl:

Maybe he still has groupies.
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"Team" might be a strong word, I agree. Perhaps "handlers"? "Keepers"? What do you call someone who wrangles a dumb orange ogre?

He does have a bunch of clever but outright nutters working for him who are the actual brains of the outfit: Bannon, Miller, Navarro, Gorka, etc. And some keepers-of-the-tech who do Trothe Sential and "From The Desk Of..." for him.
 
TofuFighter said:
"Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn." - Alfie

There was an article in The Atlantic today (which you mar or may not be able to read) in which Tom Nichols writes "It is long past time to admit that support for Trump, after all that we now know, is a moral failing.".
That logic will be meaningless to those in the maga camp whose primary concern is 'sticking it to the Dems' though.

I've always wondered how the evangelical christians remain attached to him despite all of his foul behaviour. I used to see explanations like "nobody is perfect and he is seeking redemption", but only the wilfully blind can possible still believe that. It's been previously mentioned in these trump threads that the most likely explanation is that they just aren't exposed to most of it. Maybe the apparent schism between Fox and Toad will bring a little more of that information to their attention.
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The evangelicals aren't interested in being good people, they're only interested in ruling over others. Trump is the poster boy for their religious ideology.
 
Aridas said:
Just because -

A conservative concludes anyone supporting Trump at this point is a moral failure and bad citizen
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From the link:
"By now it should be clear that the people listening to Trump don’t care about facts, or even about policy or politics. They enjoy the show, and they want it back on TV for another four years. And this is a problem not with Trump but with the voters." -Conservative author, academic, and former Naval War College professor, Tom Nichols
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I think this is true of a lot of trump's supporters, not all, but a sizable contingent. As I've observed before, most are middle-class people with a comfortable and secure lifestyle. They are pretty much satisfied with their lives and don't feel threatened by any of trump's policies or plans.
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
The evangelicals aren't interested in being good people, they're only interested in ruling over others. Trump is the poster boy for their religious ideology.
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That is painting with way too broad a brush.
Jimmy Carter, for instance, in an Evanglical. quite a few eveanglical are not Trump supporters.The ones who are get all the attention.

I don't like condeming entire groups, no matter who does it.
And, althougha skeptic on religion, I have no great desire to go on some sort of war gains religion in general. When they try to force their beleifs on me, I fight back hard. Otherwise I have a "Live and Let live" philosophy.
 
TofuFighter said:
"Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn." - Alfie

There was an article in The Atlantic today (which you mar or may not be able to read) in which Tom Nichols writes "It is long past time to admit that support for Trump, after all that we now know, is a moral failing.".
That logic will be meaningless to those in the maga camp whose primary concern is 'sticking it to the Dems' though.

I've always wondered how the evangelical christians remain attached to him despite all of his foul behaviour. I used to see explanations like "nobody is perfect and he is seeking redemption", but only the wilfully blind can possible still believe that. It's been previously mentioned in these trump threads that the most likely explanation is that they just aren't exposed to most of it. Maybe the apparent schism between Fox and Toad will bring a little more of that information to their attention.
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I think a lot of evangelicals see him as that foul mouthed New Yorker who despite his wicked ways shares their values on issues like abortion and immigration.

That said, I have my doubts about how genuinely Trump holds those values.
 
arayder said:
I think a lot of evangelicals see him as that foul mouthed New Yorker who despite his wicked ways shares their values on issues like abortion and immigration.

That said, I have my doubts about how genuinely Trump holds those values.
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Trump has no values. He only values what benefits him.
 
Norman Alexander said:
"Team" might be a strong word, I agree. Perhaps "handlers"? "Keepers"? What do you call someone who wrangles a dumb orange ogre?

He does have a bunch of clever but outright nutters working for him who are the actual brains of the outfit: Bannon, Miller, Navarro, Gorka, etc. And some keepers-of-the-tech who do Trothe Sential and "From The Desk Of..." for him.
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There does seem to be a never ending stream of cult followers.
 
dudalb said:
That is painting with way too broad a brush.
Jimmy Carter, for instance, in an Evanglical. quite a few eveanglical are not Trump supporters.The ones who are get all the attention.

I don't like condeming entire groups, no matter who does it.
And, althougha skeptic on religion, I have no great desire to go on some sort of war gains religion in general. When they try to force their beleifs on me, I fight back hard. Otherwise I have a "Live and Let live" philosophy.
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I'm sure that some White Supremacists are kind to their parents and love their pets too but they're the exception and I'm prepared to condemn the group as a whole.
 
The Don said:
I'm sure that some White Supremacists are kind to their parents and love their pets too but they're the exception and I'm prepared to condemn the group as a whole.
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True enough, but in this case, the core belief (white supremacy) is loathsome by itself and carries with it a guarantee that at least some of the activity pursued by a white supremacist will be unacceptable. While many of us find evangelical Christianity all sorts of wrong, it is possible to be a decent person, including being tolerant of other religions, despite those beliefs, and though a discouraging number are not, I think it possible to use too broad a brush.
 
The Don said:
I'm sure that some White Supremacists are kind to their parents and love their pets too but they're the exception and I'm prepared to condemn the group as a whole.
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Ehh. I doubt the "they're the exception" part. Rather, people who are somehow all bad are an exception. With that said, there's no problem with condemning a terrible and pointedly harmful trait and that's inextricable from condemning the people who have the trait, regardless of what other positive traits individuals might also have.
 
bruto said:
True enough, but in this case, the core belief (white supremacy) is loathsome by itself and carries with it a guarantee that at least some of the activity pursued by a white supremacist will be unacceptable. While many of us find evangelical Christianity all sorts of wrong, it is possible to be a decent person, including being tolerant of other religions, despite those beliefs, and though a discouraging number are not, I think it possible to use too broad a brush.
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I agree. As an atheist, I find all religion to be a human invention and a major source of problems and conflicts throughout history for all sorts of reasons. However, I also recognize that there are individuals who are religious and good, decent people.
 
bruto said:
True enough, but in this case, the core belief (white supremacy) is loathsome by itself and carries with it a guarantee that at least some of the activity pursued by a white supremacist will be unacceptable. While many of us find evangelical Christianity all sorts of wrong, it is possible to be a decent person, including being tolerant of other religions, despite those beliefs, and though a discouraging number are not, I think it possible to use too broad a brush.
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Remember white supremacism is one of the core beliefs of the US evangelical movement, you really do have to buck the trend to go against it.
 
bruto said:
True enough, but in this case, the core belief (white supremacy) is loathsome by itself and carries with it a guarantee that at least some of the activity pursued by a white supremacist will be unacceptable. While many of us find evangelical Christianity all sorts of wrong, it is possible to be a decent person, including being tolerant of other religions, despite those beliefs, and though a discouraging number are not, I think it possible to use too broad a brush.
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IMO the core belief of Christian fundamentalists, that anyone who doesn't follow their particular sect's tenets is unworthy and is condemned to eternal damnation is equally repugnant. YMMV.
 
Trump: It was all Mike Pence's fault!

Of COURSE it was, Donny! :rolleyes: Alternative headline: "Five year old brat who obviously **** on his own bed blames younger brother"

‘You can blame him’: Trump shifts responsibility for January 6 on Pence

Donald Trump on Monday responded to Mike Pence’s contention that history will hold him accountable for the January 6 attack on Congress, saying the deadly attack was his former vice-president’s fault.

“Had he sent the votes back to the legislatures, they wouldn’t have had a problem with January 6, so in many ways you can blame him for January 6,” Trump told reporters on a flight to Iowa for a campaign appearance.

He was referring to his attempt to have Pence, in his role as Senate president, refuse to certify election results in battleground states, on grounds of supposed electoral fraud, thereby overturning Trump’s conclusive defeat by Joe Biden.
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/13/trump-pence-january-6-violence

The MAGAturds will lap this up, of course...:rolleyes:
 
Trump reminds me of the abusive guy who, after beating the crap out of his wife/girlfriend, exclaims, "It's your fault for making me so mad! If you hadn't done that, I wouldn't have lost my temper and hit you!"
 
Ok, people might be a little shocked to hear this, but... Trump might have lied.

Yeah, I know its hard to believe. I'm sure there's an innocent explanation about it (one that involves the deep state, worm holes, and planet X)

From: NBC news
The FBI has said it can find no records related to former President Donald Trump’s assertions in November that he “sent in the FBI and the U.S. Attorneys” to stop “ballot theft” in Florida during the 2018 election.... "After the Race, when votes were being stolen by the corrupt Election process in Broward County, and Ron was going down ten thousand votes a day, along with now-Senator Rick Scott, I sent in the FBI and the U.S. Attorneys, and the ballot theft immediately ended"

Of course, you have to wonder which is worse... Trump's lie that he worked to stop a stolen election when he did not, or the fact that he is suggesting he used federal resources to interfere in a state election.
 
Segnosaur said:
Ok, people might be a little shocked to hear this, but... Trump might have lied.

Yeah, I know its hard to believe. I'm sure there's an innocent explanation about it (one that involves the deep state, worm holes, and planet X)

From: NBC news
The FBI has said it can find no records related to former President Donald Trump’s assertions in November that he “sent in the FBI and the U.S. Attorneys” to stop “ballot theft” in Florida during the 2018 election.... "After the Race, when votes were being stolen by the corrupt Election process in Broward County, and Ron was going down ten thousand votes a day, along with now-Senator Rick Scott, I sent in the FBI and the U.S. Attorneys, and the ballot theft immediately ended"

Of course, you have to wonder which is worse... Trump's lie that he worked to stop a stolen election when he did not, or the fact that he is suggesting he used federal resources to interfere in a state election.
Click to expand...

There's a reason we have Planet X in our forum polls. It's where Trump's brain is.
 
Stacyhs said:
Trump reminds me of the abusive guy who, after beating the crap out of his wife/girlfriend, exclaims, "It's your fault for making me so mad! If you hadn't done that, I wouldn't have lost my temper and hit you!"
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Except #45 would be more like

I never hit her
Ok, I hit her but it was her fault.
I don’t even know her, maybe she got me coffee
Alright it was kind of bad but not illegal.
I’m going to sue her for making me hit her.
She hit me.
She is violating the NDA
You’re a horrible, horrible person for asking me about it.
OK, it is illegal but everybody does it.
 
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Segnosaur said:
Ok, people might be a little shocked to hear this, but... Trump might have lied.

Yeah, I know its hard to believe. I'm sure there's an innocent explanation about it (one that involves the deep state, worm holes, and planet X)

From: NBC news
The FBI has said it can find no records related to former President Donald Trump’s assertions in November that he “sent in the FBI and the U.S. Attorneys” to stop “ballot theft” in Florida during the 2018 election.... "After the Race, when votes were being stolen by the corrupt Election process in Broward County, and Ron was going down ten thousand votes a day, along with now-Senator Rick Scott, I sent in the FBI and the U.S. Attorneys, and the ballot theft immediately ended"

Of course, you have to wonder which is worse... Trump's lie that he worked to stop a stolen election when he did not, or the fact that he is suggesting he used federal resources to interfere in a state election.
Click to expand...

But his cultists will believe it. I can think of a couple off the top of my head....
 
Segnosaur said:
Ok, people might be a little shocked to hear this, but... Trump might have lied.

Yeah, I know its hard to believe. I'm sure there's an innocent explanation about it (one that involves the deep state, worm holes, and planet X)

From: NBC news
The FBI has said it can find no records related to former President Donald Trump’s assertions in November that he “sent in the FBI and the U.S. Attorneys” to stop “ballot theft” in Florida during the 2018 election...
Click to expand...


I’ve already seen Trump supporters on Twitter say it’s obviously the FBI is the one that’s lying - you know, Deep State and “weaponized” DOJ and all that.
 
Segnosaur said:
Ok, people might be a little shocked to hear this, but... Trump might have lied.

Yeah, I know its hard to believe. I'm sure there's an innocent explanation about it (one that involves the deep state, worm holes, and planet X)

From: NBC news
The FBI has said it can find no records related to former President Donald Trump’s assertions in November that he “sent in the FBI and the U.S. Attorneys” to stop “ballot theft” in Florida during the 2018 election.... "After the Race, when votes were being stolen by the corrupt Election process in Broward County, and Ron was going down ten thousand votes a day, along with now-Senator Rick Scott, I sent in the FBI and the U.S. Attorneys, and the ballot theft immediately ended"

Of course, you have to wonder which is worse... Trump's lie that he worked to stop a stolen election when he did not, or the fact that he is suggesting he used federal resources to interfere in a state election.
Click to expand...

You forgot to add..."or the fact that millions of people actually believed him when he said he did it, and will stlll believe it now"

Trump isn't the problem. His followers are the problem.
 
pgwenthold said:
You forgot to add..."or the fact that millions of people actually believed him when he said he did it, and will stlll believe it now"

Trump isn't the problem. His followers are the problem.
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They're both the problem. He's a psycho and his followers are idiots. A bad combination.
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
Remember white supremacism is one of the core beliefs of the US evangelical movement, you really do have to buck the trend to go against it.
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Uh, a great many Black Churches have basic Evangleical Theology at their core.
I really think you don't know much about religion in the US
 
dudalb said:
Gulliver Foyle said:
Remember white supremacism is one of the core beliefs of the US evangelical movement, you really do have to buck the trend to go against it.
Click to expand...

Uh, a great many Black Churches have basic Evangleical Theology at their core.
I really think you don't know much about religion in the US
Click to expand...
Nope. Money is the core of the evangelical movement. Usually grifting. There are the other factors too, but every one of them is about making money. That's why Trump is interested.
 
I've seen a couple of headlines today saying Trump has been protesting an "illegal leak" that he is to ne arrested Tuesday. But the only person leaking it seems to be him, so, if that's illegal, I guess they'll need to arrest him for it...
 
Delvo said:
I've seen a couple of headlines today saying Trump has been protesting an "illegal leak" that he is to ne arrested Tuesday. But the only person leaking it seems to be him, so, if that's illegal, I guess they'll need to arrest him for it...
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It's not much different than him calling all the networks and telling them his house is being raided so he could make a bigger deal out of his house being raided than it'd ever have been had he not alerted the media in the first place.
 
Running short of cash is my guess. "Send me money, I need a lawyer!"

There can't be many people outside the Royle Family who support as many unemployable hangers-on that Trump does now he can't get his kids on the public tit.
 
His posts about possibly getting arrested have included direct calls to action like "Don't accept this being done to our country! Take it back! Protest! Protest! Protest!" That's a shift for him. He usually makes his threats as third-person statements like "The people won't stand for this". He's been watching as his indirect calls for another insurrection-riot since the last one keep on not materializing, and he's getting desperate.
 
Delvo said:
His posts about possibly getting arrested have included direct calls to action like "Don't accept this being done to our country! Take it back! Protest! Protest! Protest!" That's a shift for him. He usually makes his threats as third-person statements like "The people won't stand for this". He's been watching as his indirect calls for another insurrection-riot since the last one keep on not materializing, and he's getting desperate.
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I would find it delicious irony if he got convicted for this incitement to riot even if he slides on all his other indictments. Of course, that wouldn't happen until years from now.
 
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