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[Merged]Does Randi Needs to Apologize or What?

Jackalgirl said:
You know, there once was a guy who claimed that you could establish the validity of one claim vs another by comparing the number of Google hits. That is, if you had two opposing ideas, the one with more hits had to be the true one. For the life of me, I couldn't remember who it was. It was such an outrageously stupid claim, though, that it took the Forum body a page or two to understand that this was, in fact, what the person was claiming.
Click to expand...


You're not thinking of Kumar, are you?
 
The Professor said:
You are 100% WRONG!!!!
The Claim WAS posted.
You need to do some reading before you spout off in ignorance.
The claim was accepted AND TWO PROTOCOLS were also submitted!
Click to expand...
I think I remember that after much wrangling, you practically had the JREF write the claim for you, because you were unable to come up with one yourself. You then presented one or more protocols that were clearly intended to fail, because the flaws were pointed out to you, but you just increased the number of superfluous elements, but you did never include essential elements such as no need for judgement.

This was rejected, but you were graciously allowed to reapply for next year.

Have you thought of a workable protocol in the meantime, or are you intending to fail to produce one for next year's show also?
 
The Professor said:
You are 100% WRONG!!!!
The Claim WAS posted.
You need to do some reading before you spout off in ignorance.
The claim was accepted AND TWO PROTOCOLS were also submitted!
Click to expand...

And neither protocol was accepted because they did not, and never would, conform to certain scientific standards. There was no evidence cited which could qualify as a valid "hit," as nothing written in the protocols submitted could be said to be "self-evident."

So, no. RJH is not "100%" wrong. And, while we're discussing this, the protocols ask for a BRIEF TWO PARAGRAPH description, which, by the way, many members actually offered to help you write. That, Sir, is FACT.

Your "abilities" are FICTION.
 
Questions for James Randi

I have several questions for James Randi. I'm pretty sure he has all kinds of video recording equipment at his Foundation, or he can get some ... So a video response would be preferred.
(These questions are open for forum discussion)

THANKS .....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQzXglzmMkE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Khh63T9CqX0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzOQ-fanz8Y&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOSyIEj1QtU&feature=channel_page
 
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The Professor said:
I have several questions for James Randi. I know he has all kinds of video recording equipment at his Foundation ... So a video response would be preferred.

THANKS .....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQzXglzmMkE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Khh63T9CqX0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzOQ-fanz8Y&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOSyIEj1QtU&feature=channel_page
Click to expand...

Send him an e-mail, you'd be much more likely to get a response.


ETA: By the way, your questions are irrelevant because you have no magic powers.
 
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You know, when I want to ask someone a question, I generally don't use a forum where that person never posts, that's just me.
 
I called Randi directly and he did what many would call "dodging" the questions by hanging up. :) I was crushed.

I am taking the questions to the public in an effort to get a response to these timely questions. Randi does post here I am told, but as of yet, no one knows his real name :)

I want James Randi to quit dodging these questions. It's only fair!!!!!
 
The Professor said:
I called Randi directly and he did what many would call "dodging" the questions by hanging up. :) I was crushed.

I am taking the questions to the public in an effort to get a response to these timely questions. Randi does post here I am told, but as of yet, no one knows his real name :)

I want James Randi to quit dodging these questions. It's only fair!!!!!
Click to expand...

No, he probably hung up because you were wasting his time. You have demonstrated time and again that you have no interest in pursuing the MDC with anything that indicates good faith. Had you done so, he might have been willing to talk to you. As it is, he probably saw it as pointless, as do the rest of us.
 
Worse than the above, the videos have got hostile headings such as

James Randi Lying or just Ignorant 2 ?
Click to expand...

You had your chance, when you applied for the MDC and you showed your true colours. Now people should not take you seriously.
 
Uh... Professor - what exactly is it that you claim you are able to do, and how can it be tested objectively?
 
BTMO said:
Uh... Professor - what exactly is it that you claim you are able to do, and how can it be tested objectively?
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He thinks he has super powers. He hasnt. Its so frustrating.
It can be a long slow road to realisation and growing up.
 
BTMO said:
Uh... Professor - what exactly is it that you claim you are able to do, and how can it be tested objectively?
Click to expand...


There is a thread here with close to 50,000 views on the subject.

Perhaps you should see where they've buried it :)
 
rjh01 said:
Worse than the above, the videos have got hostile headings such as



You had your chance, when you applied for the MDC and you showed your true colours. Now people should not take you seriously.
Click to expand...


The JREF MDC is afraid to test me ....They still are.

But back to the questions at hand.

Why are you trying to derail this thread?

Why no answers?
 
1.) JREF is not afraid to test you. You have repeatedly failed to provide the necessary protocols which would make a test possible. Period.

2.) If someone wants to wade through that thread, all they'd need to do is run a search.

3.) What answer would satisfy you? You've made it clear, you will not act in good faith. Therefore, there is no applicable answer.
 
The Professor said:
I am taking the questions to the public in an effort to get a response to these timely questions. Randi does post here I am told, but as of yet, no one knows his real name :)

I want James Randi to quit dodging these questions. It's only fair!!!!!
Click to expand...

I have a question for you:

Are you deluded in your belief that you have super powers, or are you lying about having super powers?

(Notice "I actually have super powers" is not an option, since super powers do not exist.)

So, which is it? Lying or deluded? Lying or deluded?

Come on, man! We're waiting for an answer to these timely questions!
 
There's a thread with about 50,000 views with questions for David Koenig too.

~ Matt
 
I'm confident you will get all the attention from Randi that you deserve.
 
Dear Professor,
Can you restate your paranormal claim in one paragraph?

If you do have a paranormal talent of some kind, it would be best to verify the talent with real scientists first. As far as I know the JREF is not a scientific establishment even though they intend to work based on the scientific method. If you've detected discrepancies and think they are lacking in the quality of their work then this should tell you to seek verification elsewhere.

If you come with proper scientific verification of your claim, backed up by reputable scientists within any field relevant to your claim, and make sure that you bring to the JREF an already well investigated claim and come as a fully prepared claimant, I am quite sure that the JREF and James Randi would pose no complications.

The JREF is in my opinion not the best place to begin scientific verification of a paranormal claim. The JREF seems to be an organization offering a challenge and a prize. Think in terms of validation first. Then money.

1) A true paranormal talent should in my opinion be verified and discovered at a scientific establishment and not at the JREF. Once already verified it can then be entered to the JREF Challenge successfully.
2) The JREF have limited resources for paranormal applicants and challenges and should be allowed to focus their work and time on their other very valuable assignments of informing the world about skepticism and rational thought and protecting people from harmful woo, and sadly, unprepared claims take away from that.
3) If there is a verified paranormal talent then it could gather money, and that would be more than the JREF Million dollars.

I am your fellow claimant so I am on your side but I am also a Skeptic and I greatly value the JREF and their work. I would like to say, do not bother the JREF or get caught up with issues with them. A paranormal claim should be treated as a scientific hypothesis. Prove your claim elsewhere first, then I am sure things will go more agreeably between you and the JREF. I am sure the challenge is real but you don't seem to be ready for that stage yet.
 
aggle-rithm,
aggle-rithm to the Professor said:
By the way, your questions are irrelevant because you have no magic powers.
Click to expand...
This comment discredits you a bit I think. Provided that he did indeed witness the discrepancies in question, the Professor's questions are most relevant coming from any person regardless of whether he is a claimant or not. I think his questions could just as well have been asked by a good skeptic. Your comment is very familiar to this one. It just doesn't make for good skepticism.
 
VfF, you need to go do some research on The Professor's threads here before you start lecturing people on how to respond.
 
VisionFromFeeling said:
aggle-rithm,
This comment discredits you a bit I think. Provided that he did indeed witness the discrepancies in question, the Professor's questions are most relevant coming from any person regardless of whether he is a claimant or not. I think his questions could just as well have been asked by a good skeptic. Your comment is very familiar to this one. It just doesn't make for good skepticism.
Click to expand...

The questions are intended to goad Randi into paying attention to someone who doesn't deserve his attention. Clearly.

If the questions are honest, good faith requests for information, then they aren't very interesting. It's much more likely that Randi is mistaken rather than lying (notice how "mistaken" sounds so much less pejorative than "ignorant"?).

He has no reason to lie, because the Professor HAS NO MAGIC POWERS.

Neither do you, nor does anyone else.

If you disagree, then you're welcome to prove me wrong.
 
Professor,
Let me offer you some advice one claimant to another. Do not get caught up with the JREF Forum members. They are a suspicious bunch who won't let themselves be deceived. Some are hostile and negative, but overall they are a great resource because they can spot many of the flaws and issues with a paranormal claim and you do need that in order to arrive at a workable test protocol.

I would recommend that you not argue about James Randi. Read about the harm that some woo cause and then review some of the wonderful work Randi has done in revealing and ending fraud and see if you can have a positive opinion about him after all, discrepancies or not.

Science and test protocols are your friend. Think about it, if you do have a paranormal talent, a scientific test will be the thing that can prove it. Set up practice tests at home and try to make the test as difficult as possible to make it as test-like as possible. If I knew what your claim was, I could suggest some options for you.

And I want to say, if your claim turns out to not be what it seemed to be, or to not be what you had hoped for it to be, don't worry about this. Some Skeptics will obviously cheer when a paranormal claim is falsified, but if you take on a scientific approach and an impersonal view on your claim, you can be happy with what ever the conclusion is with your claim.

As for the Million dollars, don't put your hopes on it. Play the lottery if you're after that kind of excitement. The JREF won't be fooled with a fraud claim. If you do believe in your claim, then do all you can in starting to bring it to the test-level. Properly. I would love to help you out. I am a paranormal claimant myself so that gives me some useful background. I am also a skeptic and science student so maybe I can combine the two worlds that don't always want to be combined.
 
Prof:

Go to the media and/or a university or whatever and demonstrate your paranormal ability (in a way that rules out magic tricks, mentalism effects, show biz shtick, etc). Then when the world sees that you truly have paranormal ability, come back here and show us and Randi how wrong we were.

Unless you don't really have a paranormal ability...
 
The Professor said:
There is a thread here with close to 50,000 views on the subject.

Perhaps you should see where they've buried it :)
Click to expand...

Yeah - I tried to read it - but I couldn't find a claim, so I thought I would just ask. It seemed easier...
 
BTMO said:
Yeah - I tried to read it - but I couldn't find a claim, so I thought I would just ask. It seemed easier...
Click to expand...

I was involved in the thread, and I'm pretty sure there was never a specific testable claim made--but perhaps Dave/Prof can prove me wrong. What he did describe could have been done with a hidden tape recorder--or actually, a non-hidden tape recorder. He never got into the specifics, and how trickery or merely non-concealed technology would be ruled out.
 
I believe there was a testable claim made - after someone from JREF (Jeff Wagg?) wrote it for The Professor.

Getting a testable protocol from TP was a whole different story.

Edit: fixed spelling in second sentence.
 
BTMO said:
Yeah - I tried to read it - but I couldn't find a claim, so I thought I would just ask. It seemed easier...
Click to expand...

The claim was rather veiled, but IIRC, Dave was alleging he could speak with dead spirits, and that these contacts could be recorded. However, he failed to produce a reasonable protocol which was self-evident and could provide the necessary verification of a hit or miss. When he was called on it, he turned petulant, especially when people showed him FROM THE RULES THEMSELVES what was required, and how his missives to JREF failed to meet the standards.

Remie was quite patient with him, and if he'd complete the assembly of his feces, he might still get a chance at it. As things stand, until he meets the basics, it's not going to happen, and his continual spamming of the JREF board, as well as others, only continues to suggest that he has no intention of meeting those requirements. It's continued bad faith, in my book, though Remie and others might disagree, (and for the record, I do not speak for JREF, and never have.)

That Mr. Randi chose to take a call from David Koenig in the first place should be a strong indication as to who's acting in good faith. I'm sorry that David can't get it, that his "questions" have already been answered ad nauseum, and his berating people who have actually tried to help him demonstrates a lack of common sense, but realities are what they are. Either he can come up with appropriate protocols and make his attempt, or he can continue to behave as he has. His choice.
 
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