Split Thread [Ed] Personal experiences with gays

[Eddie Dane]

Hmmm.

Two personal observations.

My hairdresser is gay (Surprise!) and he is really the over-the-top feminine cliché type.
His boyfriend is professional soldier who's been deployed to Afghanistan multiple times.

Another gay guy I know has had top management jobs. Running hospitals and the food branch of a large multinational. Had 2200 people under him in that last job.
I don't imagine him wearing a tutu and waving a handbag at work. Professional environments require professional attitudes.

But I can imagine a lot of those guys putting on a bit of an act when at a party, just for a laugh. Hence your experiences at gay themed parties.

 

[Quad4_72]

there's a handy guide to official definitions and levels of homosexual/straight acting behaviour here
NSFW
http://www.straightacting.com/levels.html

The scientific value of that website is unparalleled to anything I have ever seen. Lol.

 

[Rasmus]

Aren't you claiming that most homosexual men do not act camp, and that the camp ones are in fact the rarity? You would need to provide evidence for that as well.

Also: It is entirely possible to think that the majority of gays are not camp without asserting that it is "rare". (It's common enough that there is a word for it, after all.)

Whilst "majority" is clearly defined and "rare" isn't, I don't think that camp behavior is particularly rare.

 

[Quad4_72]

Hmmm.

Two personal observations.

My hairdresser is gay (Surprise!) and he is really the over-the-top feminine cliché type.
His boyfriend is professional soldier who's been deployed to Afghanistan multiple times.

Another gay guy I know has had top management jobs. Running hospitals and the food branch of a large multinational. Had 2200 people under him in that last job.
I don't imagine him wearing a tutu and waving a handbag at work. Professional environments require professional attitudes.

But I can imagine a lot of those guys putting on a bit of an act when at a party, just for a laugh. Hence your experiences at gay themed parties.

This is a good point. So this begs the question, is the way a gay guy acts at a gay themed party his actual personality, or is the one he portrays in a professional environment his personality? Or is the professional one just a cover...Or, is the party one just a cover...

 

[Quad4_72]

Also: It is entirely possible to think that the majority of gays are not camp without asserting that it is "rare". (It's common enough that there is a word for it, after all.)

Whilst "majority" is clearly defined and "rare" isn't, I don't think that camp behavior is particularly rare.

That I can buy. I think it is quite a stretch to say that camp behavior would be defined as rare. Perhaps you are correct, and that masculine behavior in gays in the majority and camp behavior is lesser, but still not rare. This is just not the personal experience I have had.

 

[Rasmus]

As an aside: Being an out homosexual is still very problematic. Under those circumstances, few people would act "camp" knowing they would be perceived as being gay. The group most likely to behave that way are those who don't mind being identified as gay.

I've always thought that coming out requires a person to overcome much of their socialization and shake of a lot of cultural baggage. So it seems to me that this process would allow people to shed a lot of other baggage or unwanted socialization as well.

I am terribly shy and white-bread. That would never be an issue if I'D have to and managed to come out as gay. Everything else would just be peanuts afterwards.

 

[Darat]

Men tend to have a fantazised way of imagining women. Most men understand the difference, because it is fantacy. I think gay men are probably being specifically male when they act and speak in a camp way, in the sence that they are projecting a specifically male image of a female and not at all the way real women act.

So you could argue that camp guys are being as male as butch guys, just in a different way.

Now, a real transexual may well behave much more like a real woman, not a gay man. Quad, do you think transexuals are gay?

There's been a lot wrote on why "camp" behaviour developed some hold that it is indeed a masculine attribute, some hold that it arises from misogyny but whatever the reason it is not (as a generalisation) a copying of "mainstream" female behaviours.

 

[Quad4_72]

As an aside: Being an out homosexual is still very problematic. Under those circumstances, few people would act "camp" knowing they would be perceived as being gay. The group most likely to behave that way are those who don't mind being identified as gay.

I've always thought that coming out requires a person to overcome much of their socialization and shake of a lot of cultural baggage. So it seems to me that this process would allow people to shed a lot of other baggage or unwanted socialization as well.

I am terribly shy and white-bread. That would never be an issue if I'D have to and managed to come out as gay. Everything else would just be peanuts afterwards.

And there again, another point is brought up. Do the gay people that behave masculine () in public act a different way in private or around personal friends? In other words, do they put on an act so that other people cannot recognize them as gay?

 

[Darat]

And I would venture to say that you are incorrect. From my experience, I would say that most gays act femme or camp or whatever you want to call it.

But you've already shown how your way of identifying homosexuals is flawed e.g. your brother.

 

[Rasmus]

And there again, another point is brought up. Do the gay people that act straight in public act a different way in private or around personal friends? In other words, do they put on an act so that other people cannot recognize them as gay?

Some certainly do, that people can be in the closet shouldn't be news to anyone, right? And some may want to hide who and what they are depending on circumstance.

I've seen camp gays that were camp pretty much 24/7, too.

But all of these are somewhat special circumstances - I doubt they tell us a lot about the "real" make up of a group of people either way.

 

[Quad4_72]

But you've already shown how your way of identifying homosexuals is flawed e.g. your brother.

Yes my brother is a very rare case. While I do not know too many gays personally, I know hundreds and hundreds of straight people personally. Of those hundreds, there are very, very few who are males that act feminine. If I were to meet my brother as a stranger, I wouldn't assume he is gay, but I would definitely not leave it out of the realm of possibility. I would of course be wrong in that instance. Remember, I gave my gaydar percentage earlier, and it was not 100% accurate

 

[Darat]

This is a good point. So this begs the question, is the way a gay guy acts at a gay themed party his actual personality, or is the one he portrays in a professional environment his personality? Or is the professional one just a cover...Or, is the party one just a cover...

I know of no-one (who isn't disabled/handicapped) that doesn't alter their behaviour when in different circumstances so why are either the true personality?

 

[Belz...]

Full blown, meaning openly gay and acting extremely feminine. Though Iraqis act feminine as it is. Half blown as you would say would probably refer to someone who is still in the closet and doesn't act quite as feminine.

As, so you can't be fully gay and not act feminine ?

 

[Darat]

And there again, another point is brought up. Do the gay people that behave masculine () in public act a different way in private or around personal friends? In other words, do they put on an act so that other people cannot recognize them as gay?

It's really the same point again, humans are cultural mimics. Again I refer you to the example of your brother.

 

[Quad4_72]

I know of no-one (who isn't disabled/handicapped) that doesn't alter their behaviour when in different circumstances so why are either the true personality?

Well, I guess it is possible that gay people maintain two different personalities. One private, and one public. Is this what you are suggesting?

 

[Darat]

Yes my brother is a very rare case. ...snip..

And you know this how?

 

[Quad4_72]

As, so you can't be fully gay and not act feminine ?

That is not what I meant by that statement. I was referring to the far end of the "camp" spectrum of homosexuality.

 

[Belz...]

I bet you got a real odd way of describing what a real man is too. You need to address your stereotypical facts about gay people. True some are feminine, some are very much not (seen the film American Beauty?). In fact it wouldn’t surprise me if some of the more butch anti gay men are just hiding their raving homosexuality behind a wall of macho bravado.

Would it surprise you if atheist-haters are in fact closet atheists ?

 

[Quad4_72]

And you know this how?

The part you snipped explains it.

 

[Belz...]

I don't think many people guess Randi is gay. He's not the least bit fem.

Randi's gay ? What the hell am I doing in this forum, then !?!?!?

It seems rather strange that God would make so many men gay and then punish them with eternal hellfire for being what He made them. I would think this would lead many gay men to atheism, but I don't think it does.

God acts in ◊◊◊◊◊◊* crazy ways.