Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Amazer]

Amazer,

The first appeal still begins with the presumption of innocence. IIUC, it remains until all appeals are exhausted. FWIW, I think you could rerun the exact same trial in front of a different jury and get a different result perhaps 50% of the time.

Of course that is possible. But it's silly to say that the prosecution hasn't met the burden of proof when they clearly have (at least to the satisfaction of the first set of judges).

 

[Kaosium]

Thanks for the information. However, I think they must at least be playing some role for the prosecution, otherwise there would seem to be little point in naming them as Costagliola's assistants at all.

It's a mistake, in my view - in a case like this, justice needs to be seen to be done, and re-appointing such a controversial prosecutor (himself awaiting a final appeal for his own conviction) really doesn't help in that respect.

Unless of course that prosecutor doesn't want to be seen as solely 'responsible' for prosecuting the case, and wants a scapegoat close at hand. Think about it, would you want to go into court with what's left of Mignini's case?

I wouldn't know for sure, but I don't think pessimism is the only way to approach this. This man Mignini has made enemies. He speaks of 'shadowy forces' arrayed against him, but it's not a conspiracy as he'd prefer to believe, it's the accumulated rage of all the people he's managed to piss off in his career.

 

[platonov]

I see no reason to doubt that Amanda and Meredith were close friends (certainly not the libellous gossip that has been put about by the character assassination campaign against Amanda). Young women like that would also have been on good terms with each other's boyfriends, so it's quite justified to describe them as "2 of Meredith's friends". Whether they had taken the opportunity to cook and eat together in the short time she and Raffaele had been together, I don't know.

As for the conviction, it's the theme of this discussion that it was a wrong decision - so it referring to it doesn't add to your argument.

So MK's actual friends who testified are lying also - how far does this conspiracy against AK extend.

Or perhaps you knew the dead victims feelings better than her friends & family and they were simply mistaken ??

What is the source of your information - You are hardly taking the word of the woman convicted of her murder over that of her actual friends ??

.

 

[Justinian2]

Let me tell you, Withnail1969, there is a great amount of empathy in Italy for Meredith and the Kerchers.

If Amanda didn't kill her, then why is empathy for Meredith relavant?

Did you know that 600,000 American soldiers were either brain damaged in Iraq and Afghanistan or had PTSS? We aren't discussing them here.

The inclusion of empathy for Meredith into this discussion makes the assumption that Amanda is guilty.

Lots of people are victims of bad justice. That is my motivation. That and the fact that I have experienced false charges; I know how traumatic they are.

 

[TomCH]

This is a complete reversal of the truth.

How so?

Rather, it is a statement of the known facts!

 

[TomCH]

sec·ond-sto·ry man (sĕkˌənd-stôrˈē, -stōrˈē)

noun
Informal
A burglar adept at entering through upstairs windows.

Cat burglar
A cat burglar is a burglar who breaks into buildings by climbing through upstairs windows, across roofs, etc., esp. with great stealth and agility.

Ok, hasn't anybody in Perugia heard of a second story man? Why is a second story break-in seem so unlikely that it would have to be staged? Furthermore, why would AK and RS stage a second story break-in? I would have broken in the back door myself. It seems too coincidental that they would have staged a break-in that fit Guede's MO.

Was Guede interrogated about his various second-story break-ins? I'm sure with their (in)famous interrogation techniques, the Police could have discovered much - even more than Guede thought he knew.

Indeed, one of my favorite movies is "To Catch a Thief"!

But Rudy is hardly Cary Grant.

I doubt that Rudy could evn be a "first story man", let alone a "second story man".

(violation of free speech)?

 

[TomCH]

If Amanda didn't kill her, then why is empathy for Meredith relavant?

Did you know that 600,000 American soldiers were either brain damaged in Iraq and Afghanistan or had PTSS? We aren't discussing them here.

The inclusion of empathy for Meredith into this discussion makes the assumption that Amanda is guilty.

Lots of people are victims of bad justice. That is my motivation. That and the fact that I have experienced false charges; I know how traumatic they are.

This isn't about Amanda's brain damage.

Deal with it.

 

[TomCH]

i really don't know what the stats are on sock wearing among basketball players.

Anyone who does ANY kind of sports is well versed in the fact that you DO NOT wear shoes without socks if you don't want to damage your feet.

Rudy would be aware of this.

 

[TomCH]

Massei doesn't go into much detail, but his implied theory is that Raffaele stepped in blood in Meredith's room, walked to the bathroom, left the print on the bathmat, and then he and/or Amanda cleaned away all the other bloody footprints.

Do you find this explanation satisfactory?

Yes.

 

[Justinian2]

Indeed, one of my favorite movies is "To Catch a Thief"!

But Rudy is hardly Cary Grant.

I doubt that Rudy could evn be a "first story man", let alone a "second story man".

What have YOU been smoking?

What have I been watching? See for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOOlUR9Cg1Q

 

[TomCH]

Hi Kermit, do you believe in the 11:30 PM or so time of death? If you do, what do you think Meredith was doing between her arrival home at about 9:00 PM and the 11:30 PM?

Reading a book.

 

[TomCH]

A day later, wasn't it?

I recall Michael over at PMF making a similar claim about Rudy having only fled days after the murder was discovered. He was wrong too.

A day later would make it TWO days, i.e. DAYS.

 

[TomCH]

Meredith's (sole) murderer has had his sentence cut to 16 years

Ummm, NO, he had it cut to the same as Rafaele, i.e. 24 years.

Since he did the fast track, that was BY LAW reduced by 1/3 , to 16 years.

His Original sentance was LIFE, which, again by law, was reduced to 30 years (1/3 off a life sentence = 30 years in Italy)

Get your facts STRAIGHT

 

[Withnail1969]

Reading a book.

and randomly pressing buttons on her mobile, as though she were a 3 year old, while it connected to a cellphone tower it had never connected to before from the Via della Pergola location?

 

[platonov]

Originally Posted by el buscador

Hi Kermit, do you believe in the 11:30 PM or so time of death? If you do, what do you think Meredith was doing between her arrival home at about 9:00 PM and the 11:30 PM?

Reading a book.

Ah, But that wont do - we need precise details of how the victim spent her last 2 hours in her own home or else AK is innocent.

Meanwhile RG 'The Lone Wolf' can spend an hour or 3 at the scene of the crime after the murder doing whatever and yet have to leave in a hurry - that can be handwaved away.

You haven't figured out the rules of this parlour game yet

ETA You can insult the dead victim by comparing her to a 3 yr old if it suits your argument.
Remember AK is the victim here - the mixed race foreign girl is merely a bit player in the story of her own murder.

.

 

[Katody Matrass]

.
I think it's quite clear from my comments that Meredith did not want to be either sexually assaulted or murdered.

There was no orgy except for an orgy of violence on the part of her attackers and of criminal complicity on the part of the same ones who abandoned her behind a locked door.

Very good! But what I'm trying to get from you is what is it actually that you prefer to believe. I know you believe in Massei, but he doesn't give even a hypothetical scenario of what happened in the house of horrors as a build up to the crime.

Can you give it a shot? Let's imagine it like Massei did: AK and RS just finished watching Amelie, they switched off the phones together for no apparent reason, and now they walk happily, carrying a knife for protection and meet Guede by chance on their way. What next? What is the scenario that you actually believe? Can you conceive a single believable scenario of the events unfolding? Innocentisti showed you they have many variants fitting the evidence. Do you have even one?

 

[platonov]

Ummm, NO, he had it cut to the same as Rafaele, i.e. 24 years.

Since he did the fast track, that was BY LAW reduced by 1/3 , to 16 years.

His Original sentance was LIFE, which, again by law, was reduced to 30 years (1/3 off a life sentence = 30 years in Italy)

Get your facts STRAIGHT

Facts are troublesome things and thus to be avoided where necessary - I believe Homer Simpson had a pithy saying in his regard.

You still haven't figured out the rules of this parlour game

.

 

[TomCH]

English translation:- Mignini controls the appeal, just as he has controlled everything else in this case so far. The defendants don't have a cat in hell's chance until their final appeal.

And you think their chances will be better at that point (5 or so years from now)?

 

[Dan O.]

.
Well, he took the long way home then.

Long ago, someone on PMF created an informative document that showed the path outside the wall to the back gate closest to Rudy's apartment and there was a note saying that particular gate would be locked at that time of night. It then showed that there was another gate further along that would remain open and the path to the second gate went by the location where the cell phones were discarded. It might be informative for you to look up that document if it still exists.

As I recall, the author of that document wasn't a member of JREF at the time. Perhaps he still posts at PMF. insert obligatory smile

 

[el buscador]

Reading a book.

Not calling her mom? Which, from what I understand, she did every evening.