Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Withnail1969]

It was an evening in early November. Why would he NOT be wearing socks? How many basketball players don't wear socks with athletic shoes?

i really don't know what the stats are on sock wearing among basketball players. he may have dumped the blood-soaked socks.

i guess your preferred explanation is that Amanda and Raff were prancing about naked while Rudy was fully clothed?

 

[Withnail1969]

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What the hell are you talking about?

Please refrain from bringing up baseless arguments which can only hurt Meredith's family.

What's your problem? Meredith had intimacy with Giacomo. That's not contested. What's bad about having intimacy?

 

[Kermit]

i wouldn't say it was such an unusual thing to bring up. maybe Meredith insisted on answering the phone during sex, for example.

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What the hell are you talking about?

Please refrain from bringing up baseless arguments which can only hurt Meredith's family.

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Before you know it, we'll have food bloggers appearing here who state that Meredith was probably a bit hungover.

Or Christian soldiers who tell the Kerchers to support the convicted murderer of their daughter.

 

[Withnail1969]

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Before you know it, we'll have food bloggers appearing here who state that Meredith was probably a bit hungover.

Or Christian soldiers who tell the Kerchers to support the convicted murderer of their daughter.

Whether Meredith had intimacy, which she did, or drank alcohol, which she did, doesn't seem to have any bearing on anything to me. I'm lost as to what your point is.

 

[Kermit]

Whether Meredith had sex, which she did, or drank alcohol, which she did, doesn't seem to have any bearing on anything to me.

Exactly. So zip it, please.

 

[Withnail1969]

Exactly. So zip it, please.

I will. Except to say why i mentioned the subject in the first place - in response to your sardonic comment that 'real men' would never talk about their girlfriend's mother being ill.

 

[Kermit]

Let me tell you, Withnail1969, there is a great amount of empathy in Italy for Meredith and the Kerchers.

I personally don't believe that the media influences the very structured and procedural based legal process which Amanda, Rudy and Raffaele are in. However, if there is any "seepage" of opinion from the media and all mass-communication supports, including Internet forums like this one, then if it isn't obvious to you already, I should say that it isn't a good idea to refer to Meredith's personal, private life.

Luciano Ghirga has already had to apologise to Mignini for the spirited PR campaign and trans-Atlantic noise. While I don't think that at this point that the ongoing noise will make much difference, if the possibility is there, it's that the difference will be negative.

 

[Justinian2]

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sec·ond-sto·ry man (sĕkˌənd-stôrˈē, -stōrˈē)

noun
Informal
A burglar adept at entering through upstairs windows.

Cat burglar
A cat burglar is a burglar who breaks into buildings by climbing through upstairs windows, across roofs, etc., esp. with great stealth and agility.

Ok, hasn't anybody in Perugia heard of a second story man? Why is a second story break-in seem so unlikely that it would have to be staged? Furthermore, why would AK and RS stage a second story break-in? I would have broken in the back door myself. It seems too coincidental that they would have staged a break-in that fit Guede's MO.

Was Guede interrogated about his various second-story break-ins? I'm sure with their (in)famous interrogation techniques, the Police could have discovered much - even more than Guede thought he knew.

 

[Katody Matrass]

I think you have to be careful about making statements which could confuse new readers who are learning about this case.

I admit seeing a PMF guilter concerned about it makes me chuckle

You referred to a "ritualistic orgy" (I've seen that expression elsewheres too). But now you say there was no ritualistic orgy. (In fact, there was no orgy at all, as that implies Meredith's involvement)

You, see, we're making some progress, there was no orgy and Rudy was not that competent as a criminal - now we have two things we agreed upon

I'd like to see Mary_H clarify her use of the term "wino", as you have with "ritualistic orgy", either admitting that it is not correctly descriptive of Mignini, or giving us some data to support it.

Ritualistic aspect was widely reported after the early ILE press releases. As for the "wino" face, maybe he is maybe not, but he certainly looks like one to me

There you go again. Where in the world have I said that AK and RS know how to levitate.

How did they get their feet bloody without stepping into the blood then?

Ask Charlie Wilkes for examples of crime scenes where the murderers have left little physical evidence of movement in the room.

Well, wasn't there lots of evidence of movement in the room? Incidentally only of one person.

RS's DNA on the bra clasp didn't get there through dust.

Maybe, maybe not. There were some guys with dirty rubbing fingers. Also we don't know what was going with it while the room was being trashed and for the rest of that 40+ days. Somehow I can't get fully comfortable with that piece of evidence

 

[Katody Matrass]

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Well, he took the long way home then.

Surely he did, I can agree on it, too

 

[Withnail1969]

Let me tell you, Withnail1969, there is a great amount of empathy in Italy for Meredith and the Kerchers.

I personally don't believe that the media influences the very structured and procedural based legal process which Amanda, Rudy and Raffaele are in. However, if there is any "seepage" of opinion from the media and all mass-communication supports, including Internet forums like this one, then if it isn't obvious to you already, I should say that it isn't a good idea to refer to Meredith's personal, private life.

Luciano Ghirga has already had to apologise to Mignini for the spirited PR campaign and trans-Atlantic noise. While I don't think that at this point that the ongoing noise will make much difference, if the possibility is there, it's that the difference will be negative.

No offence was intended. i will edit the comments accordingly.

 

[Kermit]

Be careful with your insinuations

You referred to a "ritualistic orgy" (I've seen that expression elsewheres too). But now you say there was no ritualistic orgy. (In fact, there was no orgy at all, as that implies Meredith's involvement)

You, see, we're making some progress, there was no orgy and Rudy was not that competent as a criminal - now we have two things we agreed upon

Katody, if a girl is the victim of a sexual assault by several attackers, do you consider that she is the participant in an orgy?

Or is it simply a sexual assault?

 

[Dan O.]

No, the alternative which actually fits the facts without mental gymnastics is that he hadn't taken anything yet when he felt the urge.

From the time he arrived at the cottage (by his own testimony and the car park video) till the time Meredith arrived (from Sophie's testimony and the car park video), there is plenty of time to have searched through most of the house.

This is a long holiday weekend. If Rudy needs quick cash (perhaps to pay his rent like everybody else), he may know that he won't be able to find a fence if they too are taking the holiday off. Also, he just had an encounter with the police in Millan so he's not going back there to try and fence anything anytime soon.

Before Meredith returned, Rudy may have already found Meredith's readily spendable cash. And there is evidence that someone had been searching Laura's room too. He is making himself at home in the girls cottage and helped himself to some juice from the fridge. Is he fantasizing about having a date with Meredith while alone in her room?

It is really difficult to conceive of any of those activities taking place after Meredith is murdered when Rudy's only thoughts are getting away and not being noticed.

 

[HumanityBlues]

I personally don't believe that the media influences the very structured and procedural based legal process which Amanda, Rudy and Raffaele are in.

What does that even mean?

 

[daydreamer]

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Well, he took the long way home then.

He took the darker, less traveled route to avoid being seen

 

[Katody Matrass]

Katody, if a girl is the victim of a sexual assault by several attackers, do you consider that she is the participant in an orgy?

Or is it simply a sexual assault?

I said she participated in an orgy? Where? I hold a position that there was no orgy at all.
So, according to you was there any orgy or not? How did Guede's DNA got into Meredith's vagina? Do you believe it was consensual?

 

[Amazer]

Kermit seems content to take pot shots at our theories, of course the defense does not have to prove their theory, the burden of proof lies on the prosecution. What is the prosecution version, cleanup or not, very confusing?

Rose,

The prosecution has already met the burden of proof. Hence the conviction in the first trial.

 

[Kermit]

You may be right

Well, he took the long way home then.

He took the darker, less traveled route to avoid being seen

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In fact, whoever "he" (or "she") is, Nara Capezzali heard one person pounding up the iron staircase bolted to the stone wall her house is built on, and another, running towards Via del Bulagaio.

That joins up with the extramural road which goes by the garden where the phones were ditched. Of the two persons who Capezzali heard, the one running towards Via del Bulagaio could have been carrying the phones.

Witness: "Then I could hear running on the iron stairway ... "

PM Mignini: ".... this iron stairway where does it lead to?"

Witness: "Well it goes from the carpark and ends up at the Via del Melo, where there is an iron gate. And shorty afterwards to Via Pinturicchio"

PM Mignini: "Someone was climbing these stairs, this iron stairway.”

Witness: "Running"

PM Mignini: "Running, a single person or more than one?"

Witness: "At that point I heard a single person"

PM Mignini: "And someone else .... but was there someone else?

Witness: "Well, someone else ran away from the driveway toward Via del Bulagaio."

La Nazione 12/09/2008

 

[Antony]

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I think that Judge Massei wrote a pretty solid report, and I wouldn't presume that I could second guess him.

I'm not saying that either the prosecution or the judges have the puzzle of all the evidence 100% in place. However, it requires a giant leap of faith to believe the Lone Wolf scenario offered as an alternative by FOAKers and The Entourage in general.

This is a complete reversal of the truth.

 

[Justinian2]

Rose,

The prosecution has already met the burden of proof. Hence the conviction in the first trial.

Ya, the prosecution team burdened themselves one night fabricating all the evidence. And a burden it was too! Had to get DNA on a knife blade used by Amanda and RS's DNA on a bra clasp.

Without this burden, the prosecution had nothing that would tie either AK or RS to the murder.

[thinking like the prosecution] Oh, what a burden! If people only knew how tough it is to manufacture proof and then defend it in court! Thank Gods for the slander laws! What a thankless job. We're heroes and most of the world doesn't even thank us. Love that PMF forum though. Those guys are great!