The Freeman Movement and England

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I can't watch youtube videos at work. If you have something to bring to the discussion, tobjai, post it on the thread rather than spam youtube links.
 
tobjai said:
No Person is capable of doing anything! ;)
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Are you referring to the same FOTL rubbish that got Stephen Barry an order of liability against him, and in significantly more trouble with the law than if he had not believed in FOTL in the first place?

See, it sounds like you're saying that, but the concept was completely debunked earlier in this thread. Not just an invalid concept, either, video evidence showing that it fails in practice -- another FOTL lie exposed.
 
So their defense is "I'm destitute and so you must forgive me"?.

Good luck with that...
 
remirol said:
Are you referring to the same FOTL rubbish that got Stephen Barry an order of liability against him, and in significantly more trouble with the law than if he had not believed in FOTL in the first place?

See, it sounds like you're saying that, but the concept was completely debunked earlier in this thread. Not just an invalid concept, either, video evidence showing that it fails in practice -- another FOTL lie exposed.
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I don't know if this has been posted, but from Raymond St Clair's website (the lay adviser):D see how he justifies his "victory" regarding this Council tax case:
I am encouraged by the massive response that we have had to the last two “in court” videos that went out.
The Cwmbran one has now been embedded on over 100,000 sites globally and that’s created a massive awareness among the people of this country and many overseas to the fact that we CAN and WILL stand up to these false courts of the sea (Admiralty law).

The Amount of people who have contacted me since and told me they are now going into court to stand up to these cowards on the benches who run at the first sight of trouble has confirmed to me that what we are doing here is right.

Now I don’t profess to be an expert in court, like all of you I am learning as I go, I’m just a bit further along the path than most and not as far along the path as many others. It’s a learning curve and we are all on it.

However by sharing our information and results we will find the chink in their clunky old armour that we are looking for and this will allow us to open the floodgates.

I think I might just have found it … and with all your help we CAN kill their stupid courts for once and for all.

So … here’s how it goes …

Most of the time we are being summonsed (invited) to their places of business (courts) for relatively small amounts of money extorted unlawfully. Parking Fines, litter dropping, Speeding Tickets, Over Zealous Wannabe dictators with a notepad and a badge, you know the sort of thing.

The amounts of money are on average a few hundred pounds if that.

Now, think about this, your average magistrate court appearance by YOU involves …

1. Security company at the doors
2. Clerk to gather names
3. 1 or 2 court ushers
4. Clerk of the court
5. The dipstick from the council/PCSO/Copper (delete as required)
6. THREE magistrates
7. A court Solicitor often as not

Now without anyone else that makes about 7 to 10 people and that’s BEFORE you have walked into the court!!

Now, I know for a fact that none of these useless tossers are on anything like MINIMUM WAGE in fact they are all going to be on fat civil service salary so let’s assume on average they are pulling £20 an hour! So, I make that so far about £140 per hour (7 x £20) at the very least.

However I happen to know from a whistle-blower I have in one council that council workers get “special money” for going to court and this can be up to £50 a day on top!

So let’s add that money in and now we are at about £190 per hour. The old bill is adding up here isn’t it?

OK – then we have lunch to consider. Now you and I know that the beaks won’t nip round the corner to MacDonald’s, Oh no far too Hoi Polloi for those folks. Instead they will be fed in a restaurant somewhere, with the obligatory bottles of wine / port etc. which is why they always go for two bloody hours at these “gigs” – AND – they are still being paid for those two hours. So lunch for the Magistrates will probably rack up at another £100.

So for a 6 hour day (10 – 4) we are looking at about £1200 – £1500 in costs for them to put on their fake courts. And that’s at a very minimum.

So, this means that their stated mission must be to get as much money out of YOU as is feasibly possible in the shortest amount of time so that they can all go down the pub (dontcha know).

Well, here’s a thing … when we went to Cwmbran we wasted 47 minutes of the courts time, we had 6 police officers in attendance (adding appx another £150 to the costs, 3 Magistrates, 1 Clerk, 2 Ushers, 2 Security Guards, 1 Council Solicitor (whose bill alone must have been about £400 for the hour). We totted it up and we estimate that our little venture to Cwmbran must have cost the court around £1,200 for the hour that we were there.

The Council Tax bill they were after was for a quarter of that amount!!

And so we now begin to see the cracks! Let me explain.

After Cwmbran I know that my good friend SB and JD have given the police lots of complaints (more cost to them) and badgered the hell out of the council with further letters (More cost to them) not contracted with any bailiffs (more cost to them) and now they have involved another police force OUTSIDE of the one where they made the original complaint. (More cost to them).

Now the beauty of all this “cost to them” is that they can NEVER claim it back from you!!!

So with all the added cost to them, and after talking to a few people we estimate that the total “cost to them” so far in the Cwmbran case must be at least £3,000 to £4,000 pounds by now … and they still only want £380 from SB.

Now I don’t know about you but I think to NOT pay £380 and yet being able to cause them all that grief and have them waste more money which they can’t collect, represents, in terms of entertainment – bloody excellent value for money!

Indeed, I had somebody tell me on the phone yesterday that this was better than a Sky Sports subscription – I asked why – he said well this way you don’t pay a penny and you are right there on the pitch! (God I laughed my head off!!)

Now … Gloucester … we did exactly the same there and I know that Andy & Sarah have been giving the Council and the Police Grief down there, Nutty Norm and I are in the process of preparing Liens to recover the £9,000 bill we put into the Council for them having the pleasure of our company (after all they invited us there and we told them the costs up front!!) so that case is going to cost them a HUGE amount of money that they can’t collect back off Sarah!

So here’s the thing …

If we all stood up to the puppet courts, put these judges on their oaths and bind them to OUR contract as Veronica shows us here:-



… then we are in a position to effectively take this system of courts and these attempts to extort private funds for public debts down very very quickly …

Here’s how …

Let’s do some simple sums …

let’s make an assumption that 1000 rebels decided NOT to take the crap in the courts and stand up to them aiming to get the judges out of the court and generally waste their time as they do ours.

Let’s assume that on average we can waste their time for an hour as we often do in these jollies to the courts that we go on.

now, we know that the cost is about £200 an hour minimum with all the people involved in the acting etc. (Magistrates, Clerks, Ushers, Security and Uncle Tom Cobbley and all).

So …

1000 people wasting 1 hour each case = 1000 hours

1000 hours x £200 per hour = £200,000 per hour cost to them

Now think about this … if that 1000 people could waste just 5 hours of the courts time per week the cost to them would be …

£1,000,000.00 PER WEEK!!! or £52,000,000 PER YEAR!

Now, if we, the founders of Freedom Rebels (and that includes ALL of you as you built this community) could persuade just 2% of this country to stop taking this crap and waste their time for just HALF of the year …

The cost to them would be …

THIRTY TWO BILLION POUNDS PER YEAR!!! (£32,000,000,000.00)

How do I get to that figure … here’s how

Population = 60 Million – 2% = 1,200,000 (x 1 hours)

1.2 Million Hours x £200 = £1.2 Billion

£1.2 Billion x 5 Days a week for 26 weeks a year

= £32,000,000,000.00
Now, let’s take into consideration the fact that YOU are able to waste their time at no cost to you and with no risk of imprisonment for exercising your lawful right to question their authority and you have the CHINK IN THIER ARMOUR.

John Harris told me some time ago that the one thing they crave is money – they need it from you – it’s their LIFELINE. Without money they are finished, their fake money is gone, their rules are out of the window, our constables will stop taking their orders as they will once more be responsible to their communities and NOT the paymasters, the armed forces will come home to their families and leave the Afghans, Iraqi’s, Iranians and any other country with resources of Opium or Oil well alone and we will go back fast to the LAW OF THE LAND, the law that existed long before the Parliament ….
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Stacey Grove said:
I don't know if this has been posted, but from Raymond St Clair's website (the lay adviser):D see how he justifies his "victory" regarding this Council tax case:
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I see. So the idea is that if it costs more to collect the tax than the tax itself, you've "won"?

Do UK courts not impose "court costs"?

Here it's routine for the court to fine you $25 for failure-to-cut-your-grass and then impose $100 court cost on top of that.
 
tobjai said:
Presentation: Reclaiming your Sovereign Citizenship


YouTube Video
This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website. I AGREE
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"John David Van Hove, also known as "Johnny Liberty," was sentenced today to 27 months in prison, to be followed by three years of supervised released, for his role in a tax fraud and wire fraud scheme. Van Hove previously pleaded guilty to one count of corruptly endeavoring to obstruct and impede the administration of the tax laws and one count of wire fraud before U.S. District Judge David Alan Ezra in the United States District Court for the District of Hawaii. As part of the sentence, the court ordered Van Hove to pay restitution of approximately $400,000 to investors that he defrauded; these investors were from the states of Hawaii, Washington, Arizona, and New York. Van Hove was also ordered to pay restitution to the Internal Revenue Service based on income he received as a result of producing promotional materials for the Institute of Global Prosperity."

http://www.justice.gov/tax/usaopress/2006/txdv06_0605vanhove.html

Grow up, tobjai.
 
Stacey Grove said:
I don't know if this has been posted, but from Raymond St Clair's website (the lay adviser):D see how he justifies his "victory" regarding this Council tax case:
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drkitten said:
I see. So the idea is that if it costs more to collect the tax than the tax itself, you've "won"?

Do UK courts not impose "court costs"?

Here it's routine for the court to fine you $25 for failure-to-cut-your-grass and then impose $100 court cost on top of that.
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Raymond, unsurprisingly, completely and intentionally misapprehends what the actual costs are in cases like this. All the people involved were going to be working on those days anyway, so all those quoted salaries and the like are expenses which are already budgeted for and covered; they would've gotten paid for that day's work no matter whose case they were working on, whether it was Barry's or someone else's. The only actual extra costs are incurred by the people whose case could've been heard that day and instead were delayed because St. Clair's frivolous crap was on the docket instead.

In other words -- it costs the State almost nothing extra to spank Barry, and they collect a bit more on top of it all for incidental penalties and other fines that he will manage to acquire. If all the FOTLers tried to swamp the State with court cases, they would simply increase the associated fines and hire more people to handle processing the loonies.
 
FOTL nutter said:
Going to jail isint victory, BUT IT ISINT DEFEAT
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This mentality absolutely puzzles me. Going to jail can only not be seen as a 'defeat' if jail is an improvement over your current conditions. Given how many FOTLers are on welfare and being evicted, this is possibly a true statement, but wouldn't it seem better to find a course of action that involved getting off welfare and having a place to live that WASN'T jail? I mean, jail isn't all that fun a place...
 
D'rok said:
Grow up, tobjai.
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Its always the same, isn't it. Try'n to find some dirt on who's been talking, nevermind what they were talking about. I highly doubt you've even watched the full hour and some.

And the claim that the guy pleaded to anything is either a lie, or the plead was reached with whatever form of interrigation tactics they use.
 
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tobjai said:
Its always the same, isn't it. Try'n to find some dirt on who's been talking, nevermind what they were talking about. I highly doubt you've even watched the full hour and some.

And the claim that the guy pleaded to anything is either a lie, or the plead was reached with whatever form of interrigation tactics they use.
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Why don't you follow his advice and see what happens to you?

**** or get off the pot, freeman.
 
tobjai said:
Its always the same, isn't it. Try'n to find some dirt on who's been talking, nevermind what they were talking about. I highly doubt you've even watched the full hour and some.
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You seem to misunderstand. He went to jail for practicing what he preached.

FOTL == fail. And them's the facts.
 
remirol said:
You seem to misunderstand. He went to jail for practicing what he preached.
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Which actually puts him in a slightly higher (or maybe stupider?) class of con artist than Menard or St. Clair. They just use stooges.
 
It just gets better
http://tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13436
so most things you buy or use comes with VAT (value added tax) why the ◊◊◊◊ does it come with VAT? why do you have to pay VAT on things, this is a private transaction between 2 people, wanting something from each other, but the PTB step in and add a tax on it, to get a bit of money on something you buy, you are being charged tax on it when you buy it, this is so wrong its untrue, by what justification do they add a fee to something you purchase? well we all know its force of the police officers that will come and hurt you if we remove it from our lives.

so i put this to everyone: when you go to purchase something from a shop and they add VAT to it, ask the person you are buying that item of service from how much VAT is on that sale, then remove it from the total purchase price and give them the money they ask for for the item or service you are getting, then inform them that, "if the government want VAT from thsi sale, they are to come and get it themselves from me, you have the price you ask for the item/service so we have no tension or debate to discuss, you fee for the item/service has been paid"

so: you buy a TV they add 17.5% or is it 15% or is it 20% i dont know they change it so much these days. Your tv cost £1000.00 total price 17.5% was VAT.
when you go to pay, (use cash, as you have control of the amount you pay) remove 17.5% thats £175.00, now pay the shop £825.00 and leave with your item, the shop has recived the payment for the price they asked for so no quarrel from them, same with fuel, leave off of the 50% of so they charge, texaco £5 for a £10 fill up. if the goverment want the VAT then can come and justify why they need the payment and have a right to take it, if they give you a good reason, file a tax return getting all your VAT back as your a human person registerd as a buiness and you claim it all back.
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:):):)
JB/asky
 
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