Kent Hovind gets 10 years

Tony said:
I agree. Not only that, but I think it's a miscarriage of justice to give someone 10 years simply because they did not pay money.
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Absolutely. He should have gotten the full 250+. I'm glad we agree.
 
ponderingturtle said:
There is a famous area that had a glacier act as an ice dam that broke and reformed repeatedly. The terrain features I am farmilier with from that are rolling hills like ripples in the sane

here is something about this
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Yes! This was the show that I saw. It's mind boggling to think about the amount of water that was needed to create the formations and erosion that was shown. Seeing that, you would think that a worldwide flood would have created similar "scarring" everywhere and the damage would be a little more obvious.
 
Tamarillicent said:
Yes! This was the show that I saw. It's mind boggling to think about the amount of water that was needed to create the formations and erosion that was shown. Seeing that, you would think that a worldwide flood would have created similar "scarring" everywhere and the damage would be a little more obvious.
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I believe the flow was around 5x the flow of all the rivers in the world. And it did it many times on top of that.

Calling the grand canyon evidence of the flood is so idiotic that it is amazing anyone can believe it. As to the problem that if the flood happened it would be so obvious that it would be irrefutable, well logic is not everyones strong suit.
 
I once read a much-too-short reference to a Siberian ice dam estimated at ca. 500 meters high (or was it ~1,500 feet?) letting go and releasing a lake of Ed knows what size. Has anyone heard of that? My mind needs boggling today.
 
kmortis said:
Tricky,
Respectively, that link is pernitious balderdash. We all know that the fjords were designed by Slartibartfast. He won an award for them.
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Besides, it is ultimately meaningless because neither Norway nor Arizona are in the bible...so the Grand Canyon and the Fjords can't really exist.
 
Hydrogen Cyanide said:
Oh, my poor aching head... I checked on his blog, http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=103#comment-979 ... his son is begging for more money.

The comments are just too sad... and I only know of one that is dissenting because it is quoted. Obviously "heykent" was deleted.
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Those comments are screened.

His son, Eric Hovind, is like his dad: uneducated, a liar, and a money hungery fool.



http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070120/VIDEO/70119009
 
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Hydrogen Cyanide said:
Oh, my poor aching head... I checked on his blog, *link removed* ... his son is begging for more money.

The comments are just too sad... and I only know of one that is dissenting because it is quoted. Obviously "heykent" was deleted.
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Umm, I don't get it. The link is to a blog entry about autism and "non-excretors of mercury". Nice clip of Mr. Randi, though.

* I did have to take out the link so I could quote the post.
 
HappyDance said:
Umm, I don't get it. The link is to a blog entry about autism and "non-excretors of mercury". Nice clip of Mr. Randi, though.

* I did have to take out the link so I could quote the post.
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The post is: http://www.cseblogs.com/?p=62

Eric Hovind said:
New Mission Field for Dr. Hovind

After 18 years of traveling and speaking with an incredibly hectic schedule, which included speaking as many as 900 times a year and flying over 2,000,000 miles, Dr. Hovind was sentenced to 10 years in federal prison for failure to withhold and pay employee taxes.

People have contacted our ministry with a variety of opinions, but ultimately offering support for how God has used CSE to build their faith.

Dr. Hovind’s paralegal for this case has written a lengthy article concerning the facts and outcome of all that has happened. If you are interested in reading this article, you can do so by going to www.penaltyprotester.com and looking on the right hand side of the page at the bottom of the menu and clicking on “Hovind Case.”
...
As I sat through the sentencing process for my mom and dad today, a flurry of emotions went through my soul including sadness and pain in seeing how this whole process could have been avoided, thinking about the money we needed to raise, knowing my kids will miss their grandpa, and knowing the big shoes I have to fill.
...
Yes, despite the circumstances, we look to a bright future here at CSE as we continue to produce and distribute creation material that will be used to train and equip Christians for the greatest opportunity ever - the opportunity for God to draw others to Himself through the work of CSE. There are still many who do not know the truth about creation. We feel that it is our responsibility to make this message available to all who will hear.

Please pray for me as I accept the challenge to lead CSE into this new season. I am excited, because I know God has things we cannot even imagine on the horizon. I am humbled, because as I said, these are big shoes to fill.

...So our ministry to churches, conferences, and public engagements will not change. I would encourage you to schedule in advance and sooner-vs-later since we have one less speaker on our team for the time being.

...I would like to assure you that I have personally met with the IRS and have been seeking their advice on the future direction of our ministry. ...

Many of you have asked what you can do to help and have already demonstrated your love and faithfulness to us by writing letters to the court and sending the money necessary to continue this work for God. Your love and concern overwhelms us with encouragement. And yes! There is much you can do to help.

First and most obvious, I ask that you pray.
...
Second, I would ask you to continue to write letters to Dr. Hovind and let him know how this ministry has impacted you or your church. This would be a great encouragement as he reflects on the past 18 years of ministry.

Third, I ask that you be a part of supporting this ministry.

–You can purchase material including books and DVDs from the ministry in order to strengthen your faith and the faith of others.

–You can copy the material and creation message and spread it to those who do not know or have not heard that the Creator made this world.

–You can give to the ministry. Obviously with the new frontier and financial obligations, we have financial needs. I would ask you to give generously to support the work as you feel led - be that as little as one dollar or more. If each person would be willing to take part in this ministry in just a small way, it would reap huge rewards.

If you do consider donating, or asking others to do the same, so that this work and this ministry can continue serving Jesus Christ our Creator and Redeemer, please send donations to the following:

Creation Science Evangelism
Attention: Legal Fund
29 Cummings Rd
Pensacola, Florida 32503

If you choose to donate online please click here. This link will take you to the donation section of our website.

I want to thank all of those who have prayed continually for this case and for these circumstances. God is in our midst, working in ways that we know not.

Eric Hovind
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You heard Eric, send his family more money because after tax evasion at their for-profit "ministry" they don't have enough money to buy Kent and Eric new motorcycles!

(I notice Eric forgot to mention about Kent's conviction of obstructing a federal agency and structuring bank withdrawals. Those are only 46 out of 58 counts he was convicted of.)
 
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jesus_freak said:
This is a lie! lets please stick to facts and truths.
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I can personally attest to this. His visit to the Menno Simons Center in Abbotsford in 1998 had a 'minimum donation' for admission. He walked away with half of the $14,000 kitty, plus travel and lodging expenses.

Be mindful: there *are* Christians who think the guy's a liar and a cheat, and this event is pretty high on their list of evidence that he just plain operates a scam. My friends were members of the MB community that hosted the event, over their protestations.

He followed up with a show in Chilliwack that was slightly larger. I estimate that his BC trip netted him about $25k. Not bad for five days' work.
 
jesus_freak said:
but after you get them you can copy them and return them for a full refund!
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But that would be stealing!

I have purchased many Hovind works for my library. On the back of the sleeve of his presentation, volume 1:

"ALL MATERIAL (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED) IS COPYRIGHT © 2005 CSE MINISTRY"

The only exceptions I can identify are excerpts he uses from other copywritten works.

The DVDs and other material explicitly state that it is illegal to use his materials for public performance, or to copy and distribute for free, or to sell copies.

Maybe there was a time ten years ago when he offered free copies of his powerpoint stack, but those days are long gone.
 
Way to much information

Dustin said:
What crimes are to be tried in federal court? Obviously his is one of the types?
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I am not a lawyer (IANAL), but I feel like elaborating on Questioninggeller's answer.

A federal crime is when someone brakes a federal law. Hovind didn't pay federal taxes, so he was tried in a US District Court Northern District of Florida. If he appeals, the appeal will be sent to the United States Court of Appeals, 11th Circuit.

If Hovind wanted to appeal the 11th Circuit's decision, he would then have to appeal to the US Supreme Court. Either court can turn-down the appeal.

An appeal is not a new trial. On appeal, the appellant has to argue, based on the trial record, that the judgement was wrong for whatever reason. Appellants cannot call new witnesses or introduce new evidence. The 11th circuit court is made-up of several judges (12 active judges and 5 senior judges) and three will be selected to hear the appeal.

Supreme Court appeals are similar, except they are often heard by the whole court. Argumentation in front of the court is limited to 30 minutes. It is unlikely that the US Supreme Court will hear the case. In 2004 8,882 cases were put on the docket, but only 91 were heard.

Many of Hovind's suporters claim that the 1st admendment excludes Hovind from paying taxes. The argument is that paying taxes would impeare someone from practicing their religion. However, the 16th admendment to the constitution specifically gives the federal government the ability to tax an individual's income.

[quote16th Admendment to the US Constitution]The Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apointment from the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.[/quote]If you ask me, that's pretty clear.
 
I was thinking that maybe we could compile a playlist for Hovind to put on a CD so that he can while away the hours..

Jailhouse Rock
Birmingham Jail
Midnight Special
San Quentin
Folsom Prison
I fought the Law and the law won
The Old Triangle
The Men Behind the Wire


and so on...
 
HappyDance said:
Umm, I don't get it. The link is to a blog entry about autism and "non-excretors of mercury". Nice clip of Mr. Randi, though.

* I did have to take out the link so I could quote the post.
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:eek: AAARGH!!!

I did a stupid with my cut and paste! So sorry. Fortunately there were brighter folks with the proper link who posted the correct link!

Time to hide.

:boxedin:
 
simon dalton said:
So you don't use public hospitals or schools. You don't use roads or drink water from a tap.

You have an obligation as a citizen to pay your taxes. It is part of living as a society.
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None of those services are funded by income taxes. So this is irrellevant.

True, but the point is they both extort people - one with a gun, the other by lying to people about a false god.
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Lying to people about a false god isn't illegal.
 
Tony said:
None of those services are funded by income taxes. So this is irrellevant.
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Depends on your jurisdiction; in some areas, they are.

And, to be honest, I don't see why it matters. In most of the United States, schools are funded not by income tax, but by property tax. Why is not paying the income tax that you are legally obliged to pay acceptable while not paying property tax unacceptable?
 
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