Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

[acbytesla]

This is what happens to some when they watch porn - and that can lead to escalation.

True.

But that is true about EVERYTHING. It's what happens when we go through life. We are exposed to new things. And not just sex. About everything. Food, sports, crafts, art. You name it.

 

[theprestige]

Let's go through this point by point: #4,411 (you never replied).

There was nothing to reply to? I asked you why you put such faith in Gabby Bertin's authority. Your post did an excellent job of explaining why you put such faith in her authority.

Unfortunately, none of the reasons you highlighted in that post are reasons that I would put any faith in her authority. So, having read that post, I'm standing fast on my first point: She's a politician, so by default I don't trust anything she says. The fact that her status in this matter arises from her being a political appointee in this matter doesn't mitigate that.

Let's move on to the next point.

 

[Poem]

You are so funny. You keep strawmanning everyone else. That all we keep doing is expressing our beliefs. You're not wrong about that. But you refuse to acknowledge is that is what you're doing. It is your belief that porn is a disgrace. Which you are entitled to have. But it is still your belief. Not ours.

Maintaining it's me against everyone is a fantasy- and I have presented lots of evidence.

You describe porn as misogynistic.

I said there was lots of it.

But that too is an opinion you have that we don't share.

Anyone suggesting there isn't lots of misogynistic porn out there is...well, out of touch.

At least not how I understand what that term means.
Misogyny is the hatred of, aversion to, or ingrained prejudice against women. I absolutely do not hate women.

Haven't said you or anyone else here is misogynistic.

And while I'm sure I have some ideas about women that are based on stereotypes, and therefore somewhat prejudicial. I also believe that women are individuals with their own unique personal perspectives about everything and everyone. And trust me, there are many women that watch porn.

Never said women don't watch porn.

 

[Poem]

There was nothing to reply to? I asked you why you put such faith in Gabby Bertin's authority. Your post did an excellent job of explaining why you put such faith in her authority.

Unfortunately, none of the reasons you highlighted in that post are reasons that I would put any faith in her authority. So, having read that post, I'm standing fast on my first point: She's a politician, so by default I don't trust anything she says. The fact that her status in this matter arises from her being a political appointee in this matter doesn't mitigate that.

Let's move on to the next point.

No, let's not move on. You have made this about an individual but my post pointed out that that is not the case.

Now deal with what I actually wrote.

 

[Poem]

True.

But that is true about EVERYTHING. It's what happens when we go through life. We are exposed to new things. And not just sex. About everything. Food, sports, crafts, art. You name it.

It's what can happen when one watches porn with actors of legal age who are presenting as underage...which is a point you have been resisting.

 

[Lithrael]

The current situation is that the porn that was described in your quotation is illegal, it is prosecuted when cases can be made, people go to prison. I can't think how clearer as a society we can be that we find such porn not only wrong but abhorrent.

(...) Zero children are involved in that type of porn. What specifically is the concern?

Simulated CSAM is illegal largely because it is indistinguishable or difficult to distinguish from real CSAM and so it causes all the same problems as real CSAM except the original abuse, from forcing law enforcement to spend time investigating it to the negative effects on the people that have to look at it during an investigation, etc etc. And when they go to prosecute someone for a CSAM posession case they very understandably want to include any fake CSAM as part of the offending collection.

Bearing in mind that simulated CSAM, the abhorrent stuff that people can go to prison for, which Darat was talking about, is not the same thing as typical roleplay porn featuring e.g. a 23 year old performer in pigtails - which may be illegal to publish in some jurisdictions, but generally does not send you to prison.

The goal is to continue to push the boundary isn't it?

No. The default for anything people may do should almost always be 'legal' unless and until clear demonstrable harm can be shown.

(for example I don't think that should be the case for selling health supplements - as it currently is in the US -but that's a debate for another thread)

 

[acbytesla]

Maintaining it's me against everyone is a fantasy- and I have presented lots of evidence.

I didn't say it is you against everyone. I know for a fact that there are people that share your perspective. But I also know for a fact that a great many people that don't.

I said there was lots of it.

"Lots" is true. But it is a tiny percentage of what is out there.

Anyone suggesting there isn't lots of misogynistic porn out there is...well, out of touch.

I repeat, there is "lots." But it is a tiny percentage of what is out there

Haven't said you are anyone else here is misogynistic.

Well then I don't understand what the hell you're saying. I agree, there is some porn I find distasteful. But I get that many well adjusted men and women might like it. Who am I to judge?

Your posts said we all know that porn is a disgrace. That didn't limit it. You said porn is misogynistic. But then again didn't limit it.

Never said women don't watch porn.

You've left me lost. What's your point?

 

[acbytesla]

It's what can happen when one watches porn with actors of legal age who are presenting as underage...which is a point you have been resisting.

It might. But I don't think that is typical.

 

[theprestige]

No, let's not move on. You have made this about an individual but my post pointed out that that is not the case.

Now deal with what I actually wrote.

I have dealt with what you already wrote. You made it about an individual. You held up this individual politician as an authority. That she has the backing of other politicians doesn't change my view at all. It's just not a convincing argument, to me.

I suggested we move on because I don't want to see you waste a lot of time and effort trying to argue that I should find her political support a more convincing argument for her being an authority on these matters. You should try to find some other line of attack, that is more effective.

 

[arthwollipot]

Won't encourage fathers and mothers to stay together and bring their children up. On the contrary, Porn says - who gives a f.... - just go and sh... whoever you want.

It is what evolutionary biology has made normal right? Is it not ideal that a child's parents are there for their children?

Is it? Have you demonstrated that? Are there not societies across the world where children are raised by the community, rather than specifically by their parents? What alternative family arrangements have you considered?

 

[arthwollipot]

Are you going to responds to #5,066

Do I respond to posts from a hundred posts ago? Not usually. If I wanted to respond to it, I would have. Keep up.

 

[arthwollipot]

Stop trying to be socratic.

And stop trying to use the crudest possible language in order to shock. It makes you sound like a child.

 

[arthwollipot]

No you haven't. I am asking what about sex (the act itself) merits the reaction of accusing one's partner of straying?

I've answered this several times already, but if you insist I am happy to do so again.

If the agreement between the partners in a relationship includes a stipulation to not have sex with other people - and a lot do, even if it is not explicitly specified - then one partner having sex with a different person is a betrayal of the other person's trust.

 

[arthwollipot]

This is what happens to some when they watch porn - and that can lead to escalation.

You have not demonstrated this to be the case.

 

[arthwollipot]

It's what can happen when one watches porn with actors of legal age who are presenting as underage...which is a point you have been resisting.

Is it? You have not demonstrated that.

 

[Helen]

I very much doubt that porn can turn someone into a paedophile, or indeed change anyone's sexual orientation. If that were true, then conversion therapy would work. It would still be utterly abhorrent, but it would work.

 

[Poem]

Please address the following:

I hold a nihilist perspective. Not that it matters. The key words in the definition of nihilism is intrinsic and objective meaning.
There is no purpose beyond what any of us subjectively attribute to it.I value life very much. But that is totally subjective.


Nonsense. It is tremendously liberating. Once one understands that the universe doesn't care about us individually and that actual meaning comes from within, we are able to stop searching outside of ourselves for it.
We can then decide for ourselves what has meaning and what doesn't. We don't require others to assign the meaning of life to us.

What moral and social beliefs I accept are personally subjective. As is everyone's.

That gives the green light (philosophically speaking at least) for an adult and a child to subjectively define sex as without meaning thus justifying their decision to engage in it.

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Again, you continue with non sequitors. None of those things necessarily objectively follow the other. Humans like many other primates are not naturally monogamous. Still, that doesn't matter. Many societies still promote monogamy.

Interesting comparison. Bonobos are primates who's only sexual taboo is that of mother and son.
Your post was in response to my:

Not following you within the context of what I have been asking. What about sex makes a relationship so? Nothing? If sex is nothing special, then humanity is objectively sexually free and no one should dare mention monogamy.

You are clearly doubling down on the belief that sex is defined subjectively. I suggest that such nihilistic views underpin the social crisis we are in.

 

[Poem]

According to:

What moral and social beliefs I accept are personally subjective. As is everyone's.

acbytesla will cmiiw - but the upshot of such an ideology is that anybody, if they so which, can define sex to have no moral consequence and then proceed to engage in such an act with a minor.

 

[Darat]

Good point. Especially given that earlier versions of

According to:

acbytesla will cmiiw - but the upshot of such an ideology is that anybody, if they so which, can define sex to have no moral consequence and then proceed to engage in such an act with a minor.

Any sign of those objective morals yet?

 

[Poem]

Good point. Especially given that earlier versions of

Any sign of those objective morals yet?

Objective morality would be possible either from a Creator (though some demonstration of reasoning would be sort) or from a universally acknowledged human authority. I know of the existence of neither - but the possibility is there....I guess.