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Transwomen are not women - X (XY?)

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dann said:
Then don't make them multi-user if that's the problem.
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I've nothing against the sort of single-user unisex builds I've been seeing more and more often in newly constructed spaces such as restaurants. My favorite Detroit-style pizza joint and my favorite NYC-style pizza joint both have such facilities. (Three each, IIRC.)
 
lionking said:
Behind a firewall. Never mind, I will buy it anyway.
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I read it no problem. One point is that happily transitioned were also interviewed, which shows that it sometimes appears safe for this medical and surgical intervention. Of course this is with a short longitudinal study.

Sometimes safe seems a dangerous model.
 
Rolfe said:
Some of you are dangerous monsters ans we can't tell which by lookig at you. Decent men stay out of women's single-sex spaces so women can spot the indecent ones and deal with them. Any man who wants and campaigns to share women's private spaces is an instant red flag.
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It is obvious that you aren't actually talking about private spaces, but about collective single-sex spaces for women only. I can't imagine that "women's single-sex spaces" will put a stop to any kind of rape. It's not as if bathrooms are the only places where women (or men) get raped or as if "women's single-sex spaces" will somehow put a stop to rape, so the focus on them seems to be a weird obsession.

Does anybody know if same-sex nude saunas (also not private, obviously), the only kind in Germany, I think, lead to more rapes? I don't see why they would. Members of both sexes seemed to feel safe and secure in the ones I've visited. I didn't notice any trans people, but it's difficult to tell which men like to wear women's clothes and vice versa when they're all nude, and it didn't occur to me to ask.
 
theprestige said:
Unisex bathrooms won't solve the problem, which is (some) males wanting everything females have.

You're not going to make unisex sports, or unisex prisons. So why bother with something like unisex bathrooms, which women don't even want anyway?

Once you concede that transgender identity does not create a right to transcend sex segregation, then segregating things like bathrooms becomes a non-issue. The solution there is the same as in other cases of sex-segregated spaces and categories: The males go with the males, and the females go with the females.

You're trying to solve a problem nobody actually has, while ignoring the problem people are actually trying to solve.
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You said it better than me. Exactly. The Sacred AGP Trans don't want to break down the barriers between the sexes, they want to reinforce them, but with them on the women's side.

Be as trans as you want to be. Wear what you like, do whatever you want with your body, but have the decency to respect the intimate spaces of the sex you aren't. Nobody can change sex.
 
dann said:
It is obvious that you aren't actually talking about private spaces, but about collective single-sex spaces for women only. I can't imagine that "women's single-sex spaces" will put a stop to any kind of rape. It's not as if bathrooms are the only places where women (or men) get raped or as if "women's single-sex spaces" will somehow put a stop to rape, so the focus on them seems to be a weird obsession.

Does anybody know if same-sex nude saunas (also not private, obviously), the only kind in Germany, I think, lead to more rapes? I don't see why they would. Members of both sexes seemed to feel safe and secure in the ones I've visited. I didn't notice any trans people, but it's difficult to tell which men like to wear women's clothes and vice versa when they're all nude, and it didn't occur to me to ask.
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This is simply offensive. You can get raped other places, so let's make it easier for it to happen to you in the bathroom isn't the great idea you think it is. We police the communal areas in our bathrooms, they are extremely important as regards minimising the chance of a male getting at us when we are in a vulnerable position.

Also, it's not only about rape, which is thankfully rare. It's about modesty. Human females do not want to be in an intimate situation, and that includes toileting, in company with a male they do not consent to be with them in that situation.

Why are you so keen to get access to women's intimate spaces, dann?
 
Matthew Best said:
That's a completely different article which, as I pointed out, is NOT a book review.

The one I linked to IS a book review. It's not behind a paywall in the UK, but maybe being somewhere else causes a problem. If so, here is an archive link to the thing I'm trying to show you:

https://archive.ph/8b1d3
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Sorry, my mistake. I've got too many tabs open at once. Thanks.
 
Rolfe said:
I listen to people who work in law enforcement and the judicial system.
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Suppose we wanted to persuade architects to stop putting these single-user toilets into new builds in hipster pizza places and whatnot. Are there any crime stats which should prove persuasive, in the event that they haven't already heard of this supposedly well-known phenomenon?
 
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You'd have to ask the right people. When these people tell me this is a danger, I don't tend to say, unless you can show me the statistics then it's fine to build such facilities. There aren't that many at the moment, so the evidence tends to be anecdotal. It happens. How often is it OK for it to happen that you want to build more chances for it to happen?
 
Rolfe said:
So easy to bug with hidden cameras
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You don't think a woman could hide a camera in a public bathroom?

, and unless the doors open out of a very well-frequented spot, other dangers as well.
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A similar problem may exist in any spot that isn't well frequented. I don't think public bathrooms are particular in that respect.

If men are allowed in the space outside the doors of these single-user facilities, someone will loiter until he sees a lone woman go in, force his way in before she can lock the door, and lock the two of them in that conveniently lockable and contained space. It's a well-known modus operandi.
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Or someone will loiter until he sees a lone woman unlocking her car in the car park. Or unlocking the door of her home. Or ...
Why are you so obsessed with the doors of these single-user facilities? Do you think that someone can't loiter outside the door of a multiple-user women-only facility until he sees a lone woman go in?

This also removes the women-only communal space that is so useful to and valued by women.
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The vast majority of women in countries where single-user facilities have become the norm don't seem to have a problem with them being uni-sex. They seem to be valued by women as well as by men. Why wouldn't they be? People of all sexes need them. A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do when he's gotta do it, and women aren't any different in this respect.
 
d4m10n said:
Suppose we wanted to persuade architects to stop putting these single-user toilets into new builds in hipster pizza places and whatnot. Are there any crime stats which should prove persuasive, in the event that they haven't already heard of this supposedly well-known phenomenon?
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I can assure you that it's not a hipster thing in my country. It's everywhere.
 
Women do not hide cameras in public bathrooms, funnily enough.

I have had it with this tone-deaf and insensitive attitude from men who will never be in that danger. Particularly with the ones who say, well what about the women who do these bad things (that only men do). I've said it all before, in this very thread, as have several other female posters. I refer you to my previous answers on the subject, and to theirs.

Goodnight.
 
Rolfe said:
This is simply offensive. You can get raped other places, so let's make it easier for it to happen to you in the bathroom isn't the great idea you think it is. We police the communal areas in our bathrooms, they are extremely important as regards minimising the chance of a male getting at us when we are in a vulnerable position.

Also, it's not only about rape, which is thankfully rare. It's about modesty. Human females do not want to be in an intimate situation, and that includes toileting, in company with a male they do not consent to be with them in that situation.

Why are you so keen to get access to women's intimate spaces, dann?
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Why do you think that I'm keen to get access to women's intimate spaces, Rolfe?
 
Your midnight check-in on the petition reports 81,533 signatures, so 122 new signatures today. Very quiet indeed.

The new magic number is 284.1.
 
dann said:
Why do you think that I'm keen to get access to women's intimate spaces, Rolfe?
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Because you're advocating policies that would allow you to do exactly that. Specifically, you're endorsing self-ID, which would allow you to enter women's intimate spaces any time you wanted, simply by saying you wanted access.

You'd have to use the proper code phrase, of course: "I identify as a woman today, now let me in."

That's it! Any man can do it, any time they want, no questions asked. That's the self-ID access policy.

If you're not actually endorsing self-ID, now is the time to say so. If you think that's a bad policy, now is the time to say so.
 
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