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Transwomen are not women - X (XY?)

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Another review of Hannah Barnes' book.

In 2000, the only clinical audit of patients ever carried out by Gids found that more than 25 per cent of referrals had spent time in care, compared with 0.67 per cent of the general population. Children referred to Gids were ten times more likely than the national average to have a registered sex offender as a parent, while 42 per cent had lost a parent through death or separation, and 70 per cent had more than five “associated features” such as anxiety, depression, abuse, self-harm, bullying, eating disorders or suicide attempts.

Ms Barnes chronicles how the transgender charity Mermaids put huge pressure on the clinic to refer children for drugs at a younger age and to recommend surgery, with one clinician saying they would be “absolutely attacked [by Mermaids] for just trying to stop and think with [children]”.
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Ah, but that's in the Telegraph, a notoriously extreme right-wing newspaper. As is the Sunday Times of course. Not a shred of credibility between them.

Clearly the book is a pack of lies, and Hannah Barnes will soon be dismissed from her job at Newsnight for fabricating her material.
 
Ziggurat said:
Why have you devolved into writing bad fanfic instead of presenting an actual argument?

Oh...
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Ah, see it's not fanfic. It's a literary device with which you're apparently unfamiliar. Someone else might be able to explain it to you.
 
I don't suppose there's any chance of LJ explaining what the connection is between us discussing what we've been discussing and the murder of a teenager by, apparently, two other teenagers.
 
Rolfe said:
I don't suppose there's any chance of LJ explaining what the connection is between us discussing what we've been discussing and the murder of a teenager by, apparently, two other teenagers.
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I have been a reluctant lurker in this thread. I have seen multiple reports of violent acts by those who claim to be transwomen (many of whom I suspect were trying to play the system).

Also in this thread I have seen reports of violence by women against women and children, used to point out that just as some transwomen are predators, so are some other women.

If those subjects are valid for this thread, then it is also relevant to point out that transpeople of both genders are subject to a disproportionate amount of violence due to their gender identity. This case is quite prominent, and the fact that Brianna Ghey's parents say that she had been subjected to bullying because of her gender.
 
I think we are at cross purposes here. I wasn't saying that the murder wasn't relevant to the thread. I was interrogating LJ's apparent implication that people discussing the matters we have been discussing here somehow caused or contributed to the murder happening.
 
jimbob said:
I have been a reluctant lurker in this thread. I have seen multiple reports of violent acts by those who claim to be transwomen (many of whom I suspect were trying to play the system).

Also in this thread I have seen reports of violence by women against women and children, used to point out that just as some transwomen are predators, so are some other women.

If those subjects are valid for this thread, then it is also relevant to point out that transpeople of both genders are subject to a disproportionate amount of violence due to their gender identity. This case is quite prominent, and the fact that Brianna Ghey's parents say that she had been subjected to bullying because of her gender.
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I don't think this was a claim that the subject is irrelevant to the thread.

Rather, it's addressing the implication that people disagreeing with philosophical views about sex and gender and political policies based on these (such that sex is a spectrum, everyone has an innate gender identity that is analogous to a sexual orientation, 'male' and 'female' should be re-defined as subjective identities, gender should replace sex in law and policy, and all these ideas should be inflicted on society coercively without debate) are somehow responsible for violence against trans people. This is a common ploy by activists who try to frame disagreement with ideas as hatred of people in order to suppress dissent without needing to produce any argument or evidence.
 
I know we will never make public life fully safe but at this point surely we can entertain the suggestion of "Just making public restrooms/changing rooms/etc safer" is maybe worth trying as it might be easier then (gestures broadly) all of this.

I can't put into words exactly (I'll sit down, think on it, and try later) but there's almost a hostility to the idea that a lot of this would go away and a lot of arguments would collapse if things were safer.
 
The least safe thing you can do as regards public toilets is to allow men to go into the women's ones.
 
JoeMorgue said:
I know we will never make public life fully safe but at this point surely we can entertain the suggestion of "Just making public restrooms/changing rooms/etc safer" is maybe worth trying as it might be easier then (gestures broadly) all of this.
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Safety is not the only concern.

Females are also worried about privacy and dignity if single-sex spaces are turned into mixed-sex spaces.

Safety has been used by some activists to try to reverse the burden of proof - "if you can't show an increased level of violence where the rules have changed, then everything must be fine", which ignores other impacts, and changes in behaviour caused by the rule changes.
 
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LondonJohn said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-64638653

I hope everyone here is starting to take a good long look at their viewpoint.
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What the hell are you talking about? There's nothing in that story about "their viewpoint". No motive for the killing has been offered. It might not have anything to do with the victim being transgender. But even assuming it was, what the hell does that have to do with this thread? Nobody here advocates violence. Everyone here agrees that violence is unacceptable.

And even in relation to public policy choices, since again, nobody here wants violence against transgender people to be legal, how is this case related to any policy choices under discussion? Again, we don't know the motive. We don't even really know the circumstances. So there's absolutely no way to say at this point that ANY public policy choices would have made any difference in this case.
 
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