Trump and NFL boycott

[phiwum]

There are certainly enough bad cops and bad police departments to justify Kaepernick's wearing of the socks to make a statement. Travis deals in hyperbole, unfortunately.

But it's good to get the conversation back to what it should be - this is a protest about police behavior and the powers that refuse to recognize that it's a problem.... and their knee-jerk supporters. Pence and Trump tried to turn it into an issue of patriotism, support of our men in arms, and flag-waving.

"I know some good cops" is sort of the flip side of "good people on both sides". Do we really want to or worse yet, have to live in a society that defines a "good cop" as the one who didn't shoot Mumbles on his way home yesterday.

It is kinda funny and kinda sad that Mumbles is the only African American we can identify on this forum. I sure hope there are more.

Just to be clear, I'm not of African descent, recently speaking and as far as I know.

 

[phiwum]

I think that so-called divide is, at this point, almost completely fabricated.

There was some truth to it years ago, probably more like more than half a century, but since the advent of movies, radio, national media outlets like giant newspaper companies and news agencies like AP, UPI, and Reuters, TV, and last but not least the Internet/WWW, that divergence has been nearly eliminated by the homogenizing effect of media.

The "rural" voters may like to think of themselves as somehow intrinsically different from there suburban and urban counterparts, but they really aren't. It's just a myth they cherish, like wearing Stetsons and cowboy boots.

It's also one that the GOP likes to encourage, as part of their Us vs.Them philosophy of electioneering. They probably don't like being reminded that Democrats have done more for farmers and less populated regions of the country than the Republicans ever even thought about doing*. (Ref; New Deal, etc., etc..)

(* - Which assumes that they ever thought about it to begin with, an unlikely circumstance at best.)

Kinda off topic but I disagree. My brother's rural life is different than my suburban life.

Yes, we have access to the same information, but his life is different than mine. He has different interests

 

[LSSBB]

I particularly like the Harding one.

Me too. I need an LOL on this Friday morn.

 

[BrooklynBaby]

Kaepernick is the new Civil Rights Hero of the Left, joining Trayvon Martin and Mike Brown. It's sad all you have is people like this to put up on the Progressive Mount Rushmore. Why can't the left find real heroes instead of creating them with fake news and lies? There are so many bullets flying in Chicago that Rahm Emanuel is throwing in the towel. The only solution is for police to get the bad guys, but lefties don't like the police so the drug gangs win big and fake news will pretend he wants to spend more time with his family or some other such nonsense.

 

[Belz...]

Faced with a demotion as quarterback, he opted for a lateral "promotion" to celebrity activist.

The fiend!

 

[Belz...]

My comment had nothing to do with Travis' claim. It was a response to acbytesla's statement about "problem cops".

Not Travis' claim.

Acbytesla's statement was in response to Travis'.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Kaepernick is the new Civil Rights Hero of the Left, joining Trayvon Martin and Mike Brown. It's sad all you have is people like this to put up on the Progressive Mount Rushmore. Why can't the left find real heroes instead of creating them with fake news and lies? There are so many bullets flying in Chicago that Rahm Emanuel is throwing in the towel. The only solution is for police to get the bad guys, but lefties don't like the police so the drug gangs win big and fake news will pretend he wants to spend more time with his family or some other such nonsense.

Found the problem. You think the left regards them as heores? They just think they are people that didn't warrant getting shot.

 

[Ziggurat]

I think that so-called divide is, at this point, almost completely fabricated.

There was some truth to it years ago, probably more like more than half a century, but since the advent of movies, radio, national media outlets like giant newspaper companies and news agencies like AP, UPI, and Reuters, TV, and last but not least the Internet/WWW, that divergence has been nearly eliminated by the homogenizing effect of media.

The "rural" voters may like to think of themselves as somehow intrinsically different from there suburban and urban counterparts, but they really aren't. It's just a myth they cherish, like wearing Stetsons and cowboy boots.

It's also one that the GOP likes to encourage, as part of their Us vs.Them philosophy of electioneering. They probably don't like being reminded that Democrats have done more for farmers and less populated regions of the country than the Republicans ever even thought about doing*. (Ref; New Deal, etc., etc..)

(* - Which assumes that they ever thought about it to begin with, an unlikely circumstance at best.)

This is amazingly tone deaf.

First off, media conveys information, it doesn't determine lifestyle. There's a whole lot more to lifestyle than what TV shows you watch.

Second, media primarily transmit information about the lifestyles of the urban and suburban. Which means people living in rural areas are bombarded with depictions of urban and suburban life, but the reverse is not true. There isn't much depiction of rural lifestyle in the media, and it isn't consumed much by people living in urban and suburban settings. So most people living in urban and suburban settings don't actually know much about life in rural America.

Third, the condescension here is dialed up to 11. And it's quite ironic too: you're accusing people you don't know anything about of being ignorant.

 

[Mumbles]

Kaepernick is the new Civil Rights Hero of the Left, joining Trayvon Martin and Mike Brown. It's sad all you have is people like this to put up on the Progressive Mount Rushmore. Why can't the left find real heroes instead of creating them with fake news and lies? There are so many bullets flying in Chicago that Rahm Emanuel is throwing in the towel. The only solution is for police to get the bad guys, but lefties don't like the police so the drug gangs win big and fake news will pretend he wants to spend more time with his family or some other such nonsense.

Um...Rahm Emmanuel, same guy who covered up the Laquan McDonald shooting until after he was reelected, who took money from public schools, and basically ended up forcing kids to walk unescorted through terrirory of various rival gangs?

Same guy who closed mental health facilities and community centers, in order to help with police academies and IIRC jails (also, Obama's library location is turning into quite a controversy, from what I've heard, due to funding of land and location)? Who saw murders increase against US records? Who did next to nothing to help reform a PD that, among other rather recent scandals, held people in unlisted sites and ran a "wire a car battery to his testicles" torture room? The guy that has people marching in the streets demanding better schools, better policing, and yes, less gang violence as well?

That's the guy you like? But you're mad at Kaepernick for...kneeling instead of standing as per a flag code that is routinely violated anyway, and donating to various charities? And Trayvon Martin and Mike Brown...who were victims more than heroes anyway (and in Martin's case, clearly doing nothing wrong and don't even bother arguing that with me anybody I am not interested in your black brute racist fantasies)

ETA: and that's the stuff I've heard, from people who live there, while I'm in on the east coast.

I mean, okay, if that's how you want to be, then you do you, but I get the feeling you'd be one of the people cheering on Bull Conner, Lester Maddox, and George Wallace back in the day. You know, the guy who cheers police, even when they're clearly acting as the bad guys, on video, broadcast to the world.

But that's just me.

 

[BrooklynBaby]

Found the problem. You think the left regards them as heores? They just think they are people that didn't warrant getting shot.

They both were the cause of their own deaths according to a jury, Eric Holder, and the crime scene evidence and witnesses. The lies about what happened will never stop because the left will never admit they are wrong. Just like the Amanda Knox case, if you subtract all of the lies and just look at the evidence, what actually happened is right there for all to see. You just have to be willing to look at the facts objectively.

 

[acbytesla]

And I wasn't referring to any particular incident, as I am quite certain you are aware.

You asked if I saw those things as if I was an on site eyewitness and did nothing.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

It is kinda funny and kinda sad that Mumbles is the only African American we can identify on this forum. I sure hope there are more.

Just to be clear, I'm not of African descent, recently speaking and as far as I know.

Why would they want to hang out at this forum? Every time I post a comment from Kanye West, Candace Owens, Sheriff David Clarke, Ben Carson, Herman Cain, Larry Elder, Tiger Woods, et al, they are immediately smeared, disparaged and bad-mouthed. Unless they happen to be an ex-football player turned shoe salesman -- Al Bundy excluded, of course.

 

[theprestige]

Do you think that poll is more informative then their market research?

I'm pretty sure market research *is* polls and surveys.

Any idea of the sampling?

None.

I'm betting with my own money, about $16,000 that Nike knows exactly what they are doing. Nike has good financials. The stock dropped 3 percent yesterday and is up a half a point today. My guess is it will be back where it was in a couple of weeks maybe sooner.

I don't think anyone is saying Nike is in financial trouble over this. I was mostly just highlighting the contrast between the gushing praise for the new campaign, and the immediate drop in favorability reported on the announcement of the new campaign.

I've seen the ad. There is NOTHING controversial about it other than it features Kapernick. It also features the one handed Seahawk Shaqueem Griffin, a wrestler without legs, Serena Williams and LeBron James in front of the school he donated money to.

Let's take a step back. I don't think anyone is saying the ad itself is controversial. The decision to include Kaepernick is kinda controversial. The drop in favorability followed the announcement that K would be in the campaign. That's the part that seems to have turned people off, not the content of the ad itself.

I think it's more than reasonable to question the risk Nike is taking. But their market is not limited to the US. It's reasonable to conclude that 80 percent of the market won't be impressed or discouraged.

I agree that it's reasonable to question the risk Nike is taking. But I'm not even doing that. I think the risk is probably negligible, especially in the long term. I agree it's reasonable to conclude that the market will mostly not be "impressed or discouraged".

But, again, there's a contrast between saying this campaign probably won't move the needle much either way for 80% of the market, and saying that the ad campaign is a stroke of marketing genius.

 

[BobTheCoward]

They both were the cause of their own deaths according to a jury, Eric Holder, and the crime scene evidence and witnesses. The lies about what happened will never stop because the left will never admit they are wrong. Just like the Amanda Knox case, if you subtract all of the lies and just look at the evidence, what actually happened is right there for all to see. You just have to be willing to look at the facts objectively.

This complete change of argument. Should I read this as a concession on the argument that they are not viewed as heroes?

 

[Mumbles]

It is kinda funny and kinda sad that Mumbles is the only African American we can identify on this forum. I sure hope there are more.

Just to be clear, I'm not of African descent, recently speaking and as far as I know.

He's not, really

They both were the cause of their own deaths according to a jury, Eric Holder, and the crime scene evidence and witnesses. The lies about what happened will never stop because the left will never admit they are wrong. Just like the Amanda Knox case, if you subtract all of the lies and just look at the evidence, what actually happened is right there for all to see. You just have to be willing to look at the facts objectively.

On Martin - I wildly disagree with the public statements from the one juror in the Trayvon Martin case, but I will note that even "Maddie" (another juror) said repeatedly that Zimmerman was a murderer who skated by due to the specifics of the law. I'll also note that the prosecutors did an awful job here, and that Zimmerman's version of events was both laughably racist, and completely impossible. And Zimmerman has gone on to many more violent, abusive, and brazenly racist acts, so I see no reason to view him as anything but a human dumpster fire. But the heroes there were (and are) Martin's parents, not Martin himself.

On Brown: Regardless of what Brown himself did, the prosecutor (who was recently tossed out of office, and then went to Oregon and gave a speech so racist that an entire county's staff of attorneys walked out on him) was brazen in his desire to throw the case, the police response to the shooting was to outright attack the community they were supposed to protect, and the DoJ found a long history of racism in that department. I stand by my description that the PD there was specifically targeting black people to drain them of their money - ie. they were a white supremacist PD.

And in any case, did you somehow miss the fact that Kaepernick was not killed? Or the existence of, among others, Barack and Michelle Obama, Serena Williams, Oprah Winfrey, Beyonce Knowles, Lebron James, and Maxine Waters? Do you know anything about progressive Americans, or black Americans, at all?

Because it really seems like you don't.

ETA: Since I forgot to mention this: "Kaepernick and his drug gangs"? I wish people would stop calling these things "dog whistles" when it's a plainly spoken and perfectly obvious racist stereotype. 'The president just called MLK the N-word, is that a code?" Only if you consider the english language itself to be a "code", and you don't.

 

[Mumbles]

You asked if I saw those things as if I was an on site eyewitness and did nothing.

Yeah, I thought you were discussing being an eyewitness as well, until I recognized the John T. Williams murder. (for those who don't know, he's the Native American whittler who was wrongly shot in the back by a cop. The cop didn't identify himself, Williams was hard of hearing and so may not have even heard the cop who got out of his car and yelled after he walked past.)

 

[acbytesla]

I'm pretty sure market research *is* polls and surveys.

The point is that Nike's market research is not a one day poll, but years of customer data. The depth of research is likely to be significantly better.

But, again, there's a contrast between saying this campaign probably won't move the needle much either way for 80% of the market, and saying that the ad campaign is a stroke of marketing genius.

Yes there is. Nike had double digit growth last year despite seeing more competition. But Nike has been in danger of being too corporate, too establishment and not cool. Are they going to lose market share from under 40 whites because of the Kap commercial ? Unlikely. But with it they don't get outflanked appealing to African-Americans by other anti-establishment brands.

 

[Disbelief]

It's a bit surprising to see Nike and the NFL join Kaepernick and the drug gangs against the American Flag, fallen heroes and Vets, law enforcement, and the safety of our citizens. I'll only be watching the Cowboys this year, and I've been a big NFL fan for a long time. That way I can root against whatever team of kneelers they are playing.

Do you patrol the stands for fans who sit during the anthem? Keep their hats on? Talk during the anthem? Drunken slobs who wander to get beer during the anthem? Are those all attacks on the flag, fallen heroes and vets?

Did you email Jerry Jones and express your outrage at him for wearing his hat during the playing of the anthem at practice?

 

[autumn1971]

Do you patrol the stands for fans who sit during the anthem? Keep their hats on? Talk during the anthem? Drunken slobs who wander to get beer during the anthem? Are those all attacks on the flag, fallen heroes and vets?

Did you email Jerry Jones and express your outrage at him for wearing his hat during the playing of the anthem at practice?

If it’s white people, they’re just being respectful in a different way. Those darkies, on the other hand, with their pernicious and “subversive” actual issues, git ‘em!

 

[acbytesla]

Yeah, I thought you were discussing being an eyewitness as well, until I recognized the John T. Williams murder. (for those who don't know, he's the Native American whittler who was wrongly shot in the back by a cop. The cop didn't identify himself, Williams was hard of hearing and so may not have even heard the cop who got out of his car and yelled after he walked past.)

The cop was in uniform and I am pretty sure Williams turned around when the officer yelled at him and he wasn't shot in the back. But it was beyond a stupid stop and interaction. The cop did EVERYTHING wrong.

At about 4:15 p.m. on August 30, 2010, Birk was driving his patrol car and saw Williams near Boren Avenue and Howell Street. The dashboard camera of Birk's patrol car showed Williams walk "through the crosswalk, hunched over (with) something in his hands, then disappear(ing) offscreen". Birk emerged from his patrol car with his pistol drawn. Birk yelled, "Hey", "Hey… Hey!", "Put the knife down", "Put the knife down. Put the knife down!" Less than 5 seconds after the first "Hey", the sound of gunshots was recorded on the camera. Williams had been holding a "scrap of wood" and "a single-blade pocketknife". Officers who arrived on the scene after the shooting and nearby witnesses later observed that the knife Williams was carrying was closed.[4]