Angelika Graswald

[RWVBWL]

Hiya DesertFox,
Suuure, points noted.

But where's the diamond?
That pic I posted was uploaded on April 1st, 2015...

From what I recall,
Vinny had told 1 of his best gal pals a week or 2 before his death
that he did not think the relationship was gonna last.

And I also seem to recall watching Angelika's video interrogation,
I think it was on the 48 Hours show, where she talks with the therapist, err detective,
and says they were arguing the night before Vinny's death,
but made up by cuddling.

Cuddling.

I can dig it.
It's 1 of my favorite ways that I mention ****^^^
when I converse with cute chicks and gal pals around the beaches of L.A...

Bein an old dude, 1 who's still,
according to some of my gal pals, still runnin' wild,
well I luv me some old Devo, like this-ie here:
Pink PussyCat

Laughed when I heard Angelika mention that her and Vinny made up by cuddling.
You do know that Angelika wrote in her Diary that she wanted Vinny dead, because of their cuddling,
right?

 

[anglolawyer]

I haven't bought my partner a diamond ring either. So? So I'm a skinflint (she's not into jewellery fortunately). Randy, for my part, I'm happy to concede motive. I still don't buy this case.

 

[Samson]

Hiya DesertFox,
Suuure, points noted.

But where's the diamond?
That pic I posted was uploaded on April 1st, 2015...

From what I recall,
Vinny had told 1 of his best gal pals a week or 2 before his death
that he did not think the relationship was gonna last.

And I also seem to recall watching Angelika's video interrogation,
I think it was on the 48 Hours show, where she talks with the therapist, err detective,
and says they were arguing the night before Vinny's death,
but made up by cuddling.

Cuddling.

I can dig it.
It's 1 of my favorite ways that I mention ****^^^
when I converse with cute chicks and gal pals around the beaches of L.A...

Bein an old dude, 1 who's still,
according to some of my gal pals, still runnin' wild,
well I luv me some old Devo, like this-ie here:
Pink PussyCat

Laughed when I heard Angelika mention that her and Vinny made up by cuddling.
You do know that Angelika wrote in her Diary that she wanted Vinny dead, because of their cuddling,
right?

RWL, This case is a little ripper. It has time to run, particularly if orange jump suit becomes subsumed into American iconography.
I am now intrigued to find over the coming years if you, or me, or Anglolawyer will changeour views.
Oh Amanda, you sure created entrenched positions.
No you did not, you created nothing, but we have a lot to think about as your case progresses through ECHR and history and popular culture.
Angelika, whither from here?

 

[anglolawyer]

RWL, This case is a little ripper. It has time to run, particularly if orange jump suit becomes subsumed into American iconography.
I am now intrigued to find over the coming years if you, or me, or Anglolawyer will changeour views.
Oh Amanda, you sure created entrenched positions.
No you did not, you created nothing, but we have a lot to think about as your case progresses through ECHR and history and popular culture.
Angelika, whither from here?

And maybe Randy will change our views, Samson, or the trial will. we still need to know more about what the eye-witness(es) actually saw. If the case is based only on the 'confession' I don't a conviction here but who knows? The state of New York (or New Jersey) thinks otherwise.

 

[Samson]

And maybe Randy will change our views, Samson, or the trial will. we still need to know more about what the eye-witness(es) actually saw. If the case is based only on the 'confession' I don't a conviction here but who knows? The state of New York (or New Jersey) thinks otherwise.

No greater friend to true justice could be imagined than RWV,
I now realise how speedily my views become intractable in these cases, that is part of my education....
It is an intriguing journey, in fact I think you are a trailblazer for promoting the principle of open minds, but I wonder if you can honour that in the breach. Your work on Dewani was sensational, though with hind sight just common sense (that happened to elude the family and the people) and so it goes on.
This post probably wanders off topic, I look forward to RWV expanding further.
I just wonder if Angelika told truth all the way, in the sense, she really did.

euphoric was her term, it was not led in interrogation.

That just means she had very conflicted feelings as events completely beyond her control unfolded.

Over to you RWVBWL and others....

 

[anglolawyer]

No greater friend to true justice could be imagined than RWV,
I now realise how speedily my views become intractable in these cases, that is part of my education....
It is an intriguing journey, in fact I think you are a trailblazer for promoting the principle of open minds, but I wonder if you can honour that in the breach. Your work on Dewani was sensational, though with hind sight just common sense (that happened to elude the family and the people) and so it goes on.
This post probably wanders off topic, I look forward to RWV expanding further.
I just wonder if Angelika told truth all the way, in the sense, she really did.

euphoric was her term, it was not led in interrogation.

That just means she had very conflicted feelings as events completely beyond her control unfolded.

Over to you RWVBWL and others....

Well thanks. It's my day job to look for weaknesses in my own cases as well as those of my opponents' and I try hard not to mind being shown to be wrong in public. We should all strive in that direction when discussing these cases IMO.

If there is a witness who saw her paddling away when he was trying to reach her, or withdrawing her paddle or something that might slightly incline me to Randy's view but, even then, such conduct would not necessarily be criminal or even unjustified if she thought he would put her in danger. I have a strong feeling this case will be based almost solely on the 'confession' and should that be ruled admissible (excessive length, no lawyer) it will be thrown out before it reaches the jury.

 

[anglolawyer]

Graswald can speak to the media

says judge

On Wednesday, the District Attorney's Office learned Graswald would be meeting Thursday with people from ABC. Prosecutors then filed papers asking Judge Robert Freehill to order Graswald and Portale to stop making out-of-court statements, to protect the integrity of the process.

…
Freehill said he wouldn't gag Graswald, but Portale is barred from being there to steer the conversation.
"She has a right to sit down with a reporter and speak," Freehill said, but he added a caution. "Ms. Graswald must understand, she's damaging her own case, to a point. You've got to be careful what you say."

 

[whoanellie]

says judge

Thanks for the info

 

[RWVBWL]

Greetings Ya'all!
been awhile since I posted here about the "accident" that took the life on Vinny Viafore.

So to get the conversation fired up again,
I wanna share a lil' convo I had with a fellow kayaker,
ok?

After adding 5 gallons of water,
his entire boat is that much lower and closer to the surface.

Look at his boat profile again:

If his boat has so much water that the drain hole is under the water line, so the water is coming through it in a continuous stream, that means the back of the cockpit rim is submerged as well, unless the bow is sticking way up in the air.

If the drain hole is not submerged, but is very close to the water line, that means the back of the cockpit rim is close to the water as well. And the boat is that much heavier, so it can't ride up on the waves anymore.

This means any tiny tiny ripple would lap right into the cockpit.

Hmmmm.
This quote above, well it get's me thinkin', visualizin'!
That recent ABC 20/20 show did have some good footage,
I'd just do different, better, more realistic tests, ya know?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/york-kayak-murder-case-timeline-events-mysterious-death/story?id=34973210


Let's have a look at how low the stern on Vinny's kayak is
as another experienced kayaker paddles a similar kayak away from Bannerman Island, ok?
From ABC's 20/20 show, linked above:

There will be, and already has been, water goin' over the stern. Look at the pic.
If the drain-age plug is removed, by "accident" or by "malicious premeditated intent",
water is now going to enter in thru that open hole, even if the water is calm, and flat, no wind.

Because the stern, like Vinny's kayak, or low like on my 15' Cobra Tourer,
well it will always get some water going over it.

It happens as you paddle, pulling, thrusting, propelling the kayak forward.
Tail sinks a bit, bow rises. More so if you paddle HARD.

Dang,
that drain-age plug hole, near the stern handle,
looks like, if unscrewed + opened, it is already gonna start taking IN water.
In the calm winds, + tiny ripples of waves that dude is paddling in.
And the dude is not paddling very hard.
Agree?

Heck,
as I and this K1 kayaker, well since we just do not agree,
that if the drain-age hole of Vinny's kayak was at or was now under the water line, that what Angelika did by previously removing Vinny's drain-age plug, that it did or it did not, contribute to his kayak taking on water and sinking, which helped contribute to his death, well let us see how fast water might flow thru that open drain-age hole, ok?

Dang!!!
Water can flow pretty fast thru that 1/2"(?) hole!

I don't know,
but, ah, in strong winds and high waves,
15 minutes or sounds about right, for Vinny's yak to start sinkin',
1/2 or 2/3rds of the way back across The Hudson River.
Like it did.

All because Angelika removed his drain-age plug,
allowing water to enter thru that drainage hole and help it to sink.

But hey,
what do I know, right?
See ya, RW

 

[Desert Fox]

Um, RW, being that I have watched both sides of that discussion, I think you are being very selective in what you have chosen to post in order to make your argument look good. Cherry picking like that does not really look good on your part.

 

[RWVBWL]

Hiya DesertFox,
Nice rebuttal!


Gotta bail,
but ah, before I do so,
what do you think of the fact that recently prosecutors apparently got a court order
for Angelika to give them a DNA sample?

It looks like,
from what I've read, that maybe Vinny might have been having an affair, and that his relationship with Angelika was possibly not gonna work out, as he wrote his gal pal Amanda just a coupla weeks before his "accident". Heck, maybe Vinny Viafore was gettin' tired of Angelika smackin' him in public. Don't know what I am writin' about?

From CBS:
Vincent Viafore's friend, Sheri Parte, says Graswald could violently turn on him when she was drunk.

"She would smack him so hard across his face and -- and he would just look at her and be like ... he would not get mad.
And she'd do it again and she'd do it again," she explained.

Just two weeks before his kayak capsized,
Amanda Hoysradt says Viafore texted her, expressing some doubts about his relationship with Graswald.

"You know, he didn't think it was gonna work," she said.

Link:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/interrogation-video-raises-key-questions-in-new-york-kayak-murder-case/


Don'tcha too wonder about this new development,
why Angelika had to recently give a DNA sample?

Link:
http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/...d-gave-dna-swab-after-court-hearing/75642116/

See ya next time, I gotta bail,
RW

 

[Desert Fox]

What his specific argument is that they are both, to be extremely blunt, amateurs at kayaking. They both would have little understanding of the possible dangers on the environment and were likely under the effects of alcohol.

His boat has been also called dangerous by other kayakers and he did not have the specific equipment required for dangerous conditions and neither did she.

Her ability to create such a situation seems to be bizarre.

 

[RWVBWL]

Hiya DesertFox,
You do know that Vinny used to own a Stingray powerboat, don'tcha?
Here's what kinda boat these are:
http://www.stingrayboats.com/

Some folks think that VV had no water skills when dealing with the Hudson River. I'd betcha a dude like Vinny who owned and used a Stingray on the Hudson knew a lil bit about those currents and tidal surges that our bro mentions.

Betcha VV would know how to deal with currents and wind waves more so than the average Joe who went into Dick's and bought a coupla kayaks, a coupla kayak paddles, a coupla life jackets to paddle on The Hudson River.

Oh wait a sec, Vinny was not wearing a life jacket when he had his "accident"
But according to Angelika, Vinny made her wear her lifejacket that day, right?

So where was his life jacket? Vinny did not purchase 1 when he bought the 2 kayaks, the 2 paddles? Her lifejacket?

The kayaks were kept in the living room, behind the couch,
as far as I have seen from a photo on Instagram. You can see at least 1 paddle, Angelika's, inside VV's blue yak:

Where was her lifejacket stored at, kept that day before she put it on?
Was it stored in the cockpit of her kayak? In his cargo compartment?

Why did Vinny tell her to wear it,
because he checked the weather, and knew that conditions when they left or came back might get windy?

From viewing the Instagram pix,
the 1st time I see a shot of their blue + red kayaks is 1 posted on May 11, 2014:
https://www.instagram.com/p/n4kKbPqIkg/?taken-by=angelikas_eye

Heck, if these 2 were novice kayakers, well it sure seems like Angelika picked it up fast, for in another Instagram posting, this on June 14, 2014, she is sitting with her knees propped up, drinking a Modelo beer, while out on the waters of The Hudson River:
https://www.instagram.com/p/o_6j9VKIrF/?taken-by=angelikas_eye


I hope that the Detectives can find out when + where,
the kayaks, paddles and Angelika's lifejacket were bought and see if they can get a copy of the probable computerized cash register receipt. Why?

To answer this question:
Did Vinny also buy himself a life jacket?
Did Vinny own a lifejacket?
I betcha he did.

Where was it that day he told Angelika,
(according to her), to wear her lifejacket????


For if you watch that ABC 20/20 program, linked here again:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/york-kayak-murder-case-timeline-events-mysterious-death/story?id=34973210
well you will see Vinny and Angelika sitting in 2 beach chairs, from Dick's,

in the same blue and red colors as the kayak they each paddled in...

Vinny Viafore bought 2 beach chairs, 2 kayaks, 2 paddles, BUT only 1 life jacket?
Hmmmm.

I'll be online today for a bit,
in case ya wanna respond...
RW

 

[catsmate]

<snip>

That's a lot of 'maybes' and 'possiblys' allied to speculation and cherry picking.

 

[RWVBWL]

That's a lot of 'maybes' and 'possiblys' allied to speculation and cherry picking.

Hiya Catsmate,
I'm glad to be debating this "accident" here again on The JREF, err, I mean, The ISF!!! I like the style here...

That said,
I am a loooong time surfer, a surf photog, a kayaker. 1000's, maybe over a hundred, or 2 of 1000's of hours doin' this. I deal with surf, wind, swell, every day, all thru-out the day. In fact, right now, I am 20 feet way from the waters of The Pacific Ocean, and though the surf is small here on a certain beach in Los Angeles, the waves are waaay bigger than the waves which I know that VV and Angelika dealt with that Sunday evening.

You folks around the country, around the world,
who might not deal with waves every day, well ya might not understand what I try to tell ya.
No biggie, I'm here to help ya understand, ok?



Let us have a look once again of that ABC 20/20 show recently.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/york-kayak-murder-case-timeline-events-mysterious-death/story?id=34973210

Below,
here is screen-grab pic of Elizabeth Vargas,
talking with a dude with the last name of Wright.

See that little wave that is starting to ripple over the stern of his kayak,
the same model, and color blue,
that Vinny Viafore was paddling in back towards Plum Point when he had his "accident"?

That if he died, by "accident", Angelika Graswald stood to earn a cool quarter of a million dollars.
$250,000.00 in cold° hearted cash, as Vinny Viafore, shivering, gets cold, colder, and dies, freezin' cold in 48° snow-melted water when he slips under the waters of the river he grew up on, The Hudson River...


I play in the waters of The Pacific Ocean sometimes,
near this temperature.
I can feel it.

* * * * *

Look closely at the screen-grab pic above.

See the stern of that blue kayak?
That little wave is startin' to wash over it's stern, it's carrying handle, it's drain-age plug.

Guess what?
If that Wright dude has his drain-age plug removed,
well water is going to enter thru that hole.

And it will help to sink his kayak, by helping to sink the stern,
which will bring the cock-pit lower, allowing more water to then enter the cockpit area,
as water still, continuously enters that open drain-age hole.

* * * * *

See that 2nd lil' wave in the screen grab photo above?
It too is gonna break, so to say, and wash over the kayak stern,
and water will get in thru that open drain-age hole of that kayak.


Lets us see what that 2nd lil' wave did do,
ok?

Dang,
more water washing over the stern, and into that open hole in the kayak.
And that Wright dude, he don't even, apparently, know it!
Damn!!!

15, 20 minutes of this happening before Vinny Viafore capsized,
sank?

And you folks who argue Angelika's innocence do not see this???
Hmmmm.

My opinions, and 2¢ only,
Randy Wright
LAsurfpix.com

 

[quadraginta]

<snip>

To answer this question:
Did Vinny also buy himself a life jacket?
Did Vinny own a lifejacket?
I betcha he did.

<snip>

If he owned and was running a Stingray (or any other powerboat) then he most certainly owned at least one life jacket. Probably more unless he only took it out by himself, because he would have had to have one for every passenger on the boat.

 

[TomB]

If I go out in a boat/kayak without a lifejacket, there is only one person to blame: me. Even if my wife had hidden my life jacket, it would be my responsibility because I chose to knowingly go out without it. And there is no way I could unknowingly go out without it.

Likewise, the plug. He went out onto the water without it. Seems like something one would check. That check would have been his responsibility. Obviously, he didn't check. If he had, he may have still gone out, but he would have plugged it with something. I've improvised boat plugs for Jon boats before when they were forgotten. This would be even easier to compensate for as you don't need a completely water tight seal, just something that will deflect most of the water.

If the lack of plug contributed to his death, then Vinnie himself is largely responsible regardless of the actions of anyone else.

Even if Angelika DID remove the plug for some reason, you would have a hard time proving that it was done with the intent of causing his death.

Why would someone take out a life insurance policy with a girlfriend as a beneficiary? I don't know. But by this logic, just about every married person has a motive to kill their spouse. Likewise most married person has gripes, complaints and resentments about their spouse that they might talk about to their friends or in their diaries. I've listened to a lot of coworkers (mostly women) complain about their husbands in terms that would lead you to think they despised them. If you live with someone, congratualations! you have motive for murder!

To prove that this was a murder you have to PROVE that she took deliberate action to cause his death. The only thing I've seen that even resembles that is the possibility that a witness might have seen her push him in. But I'm not sure how reliable that is.

She may have done it, but the boat plug thing is a red herring as there are innocent explanations, and the responsibility for its absence ultimately lies with the victim. Same with the life jacket.

 

[Desert Fox]

I am getting a life insurance paying out to my roommate. . . We got a house together and if something happened, he would not be able to afford it.

 

[catsmate]

If I go out in a boat/kayak without a lifejacket, there is only one person to blame: me. Even if my wife had hidden my life jacket, it would be my responsibility because I chose to knowingly go out without it. And there is no way I could unknowingly go out without it.

Exactly.

Even if Angelika DID remove the plug for some reason, you would have a hard time proving that it was done with the intent of causing his death.

Also true.

Why would someone take out a life insurance policy with a girlfriend as a beneficiary? I don't know.

Well I did. She was also the listed beneficiary of my employer's death-in-service package. It's hardly uncommon especially if they're living together or otherwise have shared expenses that would be effected by the death of one party.

But by this logic, just about every married person has a motive to kill their spouse.

Well yes.

To prove that this was a murder you have to PROVE that she took deliberate action to cause his death. The only thing I've seen that even resembles that is the possibility that a witness might have seen her push him in. But I'm not sure how reliable that is.

Exactly. There's simply no evidence for any deliberate intent to cause death or injury.

She may have done it, but the boat plug thing is a red herring as there are innocent explanations, and the responsibility for its absence ultimately lies with the victim. Same with the life jacket.

I am getting a life insurance paying out to my roommate. . . We got a house together and if something happened, he would not be able to afford it.

A classic case of Insurable Interest.

 

[RWVBWL]

If I go out in a boat/kayak without a lifejacket, there is only one person to blame: me.

Hiya TomB,
You know somethin I've learned from surfing, plus kayaking, and also,
many years ago being out on Lake Mead as a kid with my long deceased Grandpa Eddie,
whom helped build that Hoover Dam?

It is that life jackets suck if you want to,
or need to go for a swim. Back to shore.

Ever go down to the beach and watch big waves hit the coastline and surfers come, paddle out to ride 'em? You know that bigger waves break farther off the shoreline, right? At some surfspot line-ups it's a good long paddle out there, or back in. Against currents, riptides, undertow, wind even, sometimes.

How many surfers wear life jackets?
See my current avatar? I don't have a life jacket on.
Your leash breaks, you gotta go for a swim...

Life jackets might be great for folks who don't swim too good,
or are far from shore, or don't have other gear to help themselves.
So they need to float around and wait for some help.

I have Vinny's yak in my quiver right now.
I've put some 41.53 miles of paddling on it so far, did some 28 odd miles yesterday,
I've been as far offshore as 1.68 miles off the Malibu coastline.
Waved hi to a coupla The Baywatch Lifeguard Boyz as they cruised by me as I was returning,
nearshore then, off Dukes in Malibu...

I have a life jacket, it's yellow, but faded,
so it's been re-colored, bright orange.
But I have not been using it recently.

My life jacket consists of Viper swim fins and my Ripcurl fullsuit,
which I'll finish completely putting on, up over my shoulders and then zip it up if the sheee-it hits the fan
and that yak sinks, and I can not bail it out.

Need a bailer? Use your dive knife to cut the top off a plastic water bottle, it will bail, slowly. Better yet, bring a larger 2liter bottle of soda or re-filled with your favorite bev and then if need be, cut that top 1/3 off, it will bail a kayak pretty fast, I'd betta faster than those lil pumps I've seen. Need a signal mirror? A CD or DVD works good if need be. Gorilla tape is better than duct tape, etc...

That yak that Vinny used is very stable, handles winds, swell, and rides breaking waves near shore pretty good. I have wave surfed it. On moving waves, not standing waves, err rapids breaking as water rushes downstream over some clump of rocks in some narrow creek or river...

Some dude I debate elsewhere read something on the Internet + thinks the seating area bulkhead on a Fusion 124 kayak will not allow water to come back up from the stern area, (were it usually collects), towards the middle of the yak, or ecks, even near the bow. He is wrong.

If you get enough water in there, as I did playing and doing some basic tests, nearshore, like riding moving, open faced waves again and again. A coupla times, on purpose, I went for it, riding waves for too long and too close to shore, so that in the shallow waters, the moving wave then crested over and broke, getting some water over and into the open un-skirted cock-pit.

Do this a few times, get enough water in the cock-pit and ya will notice as you paddle back out to catch another wave that this water, it can + indeed will definitely come forward from underneath the seat, and can also come forward from both sides of the seat bulkhead.

Heck, no kayaker wants water splashing forward, hanging up around the bow area, any boater knows this. Paddling a kayak with water splashing forward into the bow area sure would be a pain in the arse when dealing with winds and waves, I betcha. Make for slooow goin', paddlin' a kayak with its bow heavy...

My 2¢ only,
RW