Angelika Graswald

[Shiner]

Thanks for that. I'm a paddler myself. I wasn't in any doubt about the possibilities. Just wanted to know if the point had been proven.

I took an interest in this case when it happened and hit the news. I remember having a quick look at Google maps to locate the island and stretch of river this happened on.

Just looking at the satellite image was enough for me to see that the water can be rough there.

 

[Shiner]

Still in jail, Angelika can't post bail, and her supporters are apparently not having any cookie sales to help her out...
Wonder why?
RW

Could be something to do with this?

“All right, I’ll give you a f***ing statement,” Graswald told a detective in a video obtained by CBS crime program 48 Hours.

“What is it?” the detective asks.

“I wanted him dead and now he’s gone. And I’m OK with it.”

The confession came during an 11-hour interrogation. The video shows Graswald sitting with detectives in a small room around a wooden table. She is wearing a long dress and at breaks between interrogations she stops to practice yoga.

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-...d/news-story/5ea3cd8029f0f352ee79f9ea19d22501

 

[Desert Fox]

I will bet you after an 11 hour interrogation I would confess myself.

 

[Shiner]

I will bet you after an 11 hour interrogation I would confess myself.

Maybe true. But it isn't much of a defense, is it?

 

[Desert Fox]

Maybe true. But it isn't much of a defense, is it?

The judge has not yet decided if the confession was or was not coerced. If he is reading the science, there is a wide variety of literature that false confessions can easily be coerced.

After a long interrogation, a suspect will do just about anything to get out of that interrogation room. There used to be on the PBS website a frontline episode called the confessions.

 

[RWVBWL]

Hopscotch?

Supposedy, while being Interrogated,
Angelika said she might have had a miscarriage!

I once dated, was in luv with a gal, who had a miscarriage.
Ain't now way she was gonna do yoga, stretch out, or do hopscotch then.

Interesting read below, link here:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1512/28/ng.01.html

GRACE: Let`s take a look at her doing yoga again.
Liz, if you could pull that back up. Here she -- OK.
Alex Sanchez, Robin ******. You`re veteran defense attorneys.
This is from ABC`s "20-20."

What is she doing, ******?

ROBIN ******, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She`s grieving.Her lovely fiance has just died. They interrogated her for about 11 hours.

GRACE: She`s playing hopscotch.

* * * * *

Hopscotch?
After a miscarriage?
Hmmmm, ok.
Right.


Next thing ya know,
we will learn that Angelika told Detective Donnie DeQuarto that she thought,
when she 1st laid eyes on him, that he's cute.

Even told The Detective this,
before she might have had a miscarriage.
While grieving, her lovely fiance has just died,
and is lying somewhere underneath the cold 46° waters of the nearby Hudson River.

That sound about right,
Desert Fox?

My opinions only,
RW

 

[Samson]

A great case to follow.

!. I lock you on the balcony, turn around and she falls while climbing down.
2. Pussy is playing with the plug tied to the little cord, and Angelka takes it right out so van have more fun . Viafore never checks his gear and drowns.

Same deal, Gable and Angelique are causally detached from the events. These people are accused of MURDER for pity's sake, murder of a ship of fools.

 

[Metullus]

A great case to follow.

!. I lock you on the balcony, turn around and she falls while climbing down.
2. Pussy is playing with the plug tied to the little cord, and Angelka takes it right out so van have more fun . Viafore never checks his gear and drowns.

Same deal, Gable and Angelique are causally detached from the events. These people are accused of MURDER for pity's sake, murder of a ship of fools.

3. I disconnect the brake lines on your car. You never check, and drive off down the freeway and die in a horrible accident.

Same deal. I am causally detached from the events...

 

[Samson]

3. I disconnect the brake lines on your car. You never check, and drive off down the freeway and die in a horrible accident.

Same deal. I am causally detached from the events...

Wrong.
Your mechanic checks your brakes and you trust him.
You check your kayak equipment and you trust yourself.

Angelique could not think I want him dead when giving the plug to the cat to play with weeks earlier. Causal detachment.

 

[Shiner]

A great case to follow.

!. I lock you on the balcony, turn around and she falls while climbing down.
2. Pussy is playing with the plug tied to the little cord, and Angelka takes it right out so van have more fun . Viafore never checks his gear and drowns.

Same deal, Gable and Angelique are causally detached from the events. These people are accused of MURDER for pity's sake, murder of a ship of fools.

Do you discount the witness reports that she paddled away from him as he drowned?

Or the reports, again from witnesses, that she waited 20 minutes before calling 911, and then appeared to deliberately capsize her own craft ?

 

[Samson]

Do you discount the witness reports that she paddled away from him as he drowned?

Or the reports, again from witnesses, that she waited 20 minutes before calling 911, and then appeared to deliberately capsize her own craft ?

To be honest I partially support RW on the IA forum, because I see a few issues, and they need answering in detail. But not the cell phone and paddling away. She had a royal show of ending up dead herself out there if she tried to help Viafore, and this is reprising Tostee and what he did. Try being there before judging. A lot in these cases is ruled by hindsight, but you only get one stab at foresight.

Also kayaking looks a mugs game to me, but I imagine standing when the rescuers arrive is a rehearsal for falling off a log.

 

[Shiner]

To be honest I partially support RW on the IA forum, because I see a few issues, and they need answering in detail. But not the cell phone and paddling away. She had a royal show of ending up dead herself out there if she tried to help Viafore, and this is reprising Tostee and what he did. Try being there before judging. A lot in these cases is ruled by hindsight, but you only get one stab at foresight.

Also kayaking looks a mugs game to me, but I imagine standing when the rescuers arrive is a rehearsal for falling off a log.

That's a very confusing post. I don't know what the IA forum is.

I have no idea why you again mention the Tostee case.

WTF does your log quip mean?

I think you've admitted to having no knowledge of kayaking, yet you think your opinion on the likelihood of a successful rescue holds weight?

 

[Samson]

That's a very confusing post. I don't know what the IA forum is.

I have no idea why you again mention the Tostee case.

WTF does your log quip mean?

I think you've admitted to having no knowledge of kayaking, yet you think your opinion on the likelihood of a successful rescue holds weight?

Easy as falling off a log is the old saying, to which could be added easy as falling off a kayak in choppy waters when standing up.

The Tostee case is where this started, concept of murder by an act which had a completely different intent.

Act 1. Put her on the huge furnished balcony to chill out.
Act 2. Unscrew the plug attachment so pussy can bat the whole fixture all round the room for fun.

Neither act had homicidal intent.

In terms of what happened, I think she tried to stand up as the rescuers approached and fell over. It's that simple.

 

[Shiner]

Easy as falling off a log is the old saying, to which could be added easy as falling off a kayak in choppy waters when standing up.

The Tostee case is where this started, concept of murder by an act which had a completely different intent.

Act 1. Put her on the huge furnished balcony to chill out.
Act 2. Unscrew the plug attachment so pussy can bat the whole fixture all round the room for fun.

Neither act had homicidal intent.

In terms of what happened, I think she tried to stand up as the rescuers approached and fell over. It's that simple.

You think the rescuers turned up as she hung up from the 911 call? Why?

You keep mentioning a cat. Why?

Do you not imagine that spare parts are available for kayaks?

Can you not see the likelihood of her removing the plug and dropping it in the water while they were on the island, knowing there was one at home?

That's just one possible counter to your ridiculous notion that it was removed for a cat to play with.

Your early posts claim to be 50/50 with much suspicion of her story. You've obviously seen "evidence" to confirm your claim of innocence. Care to link it?

 

[Samson]

You think the rescuers turned up as she hung up from the 911 call? Why?

You keep mentioning a cat. Why?

Do you not imagine that spare parts are available for kayaks?

Can you not see the likelihood of her removing the plug and dropping it in the water while they were on the island, knowing there was one at home?

That's just one possible counter to your ridiculous notion that it was removed for a cat to play with.

Your early posts claim to be 50/50 with much suspicion of her story. You've obviously seen "evidence" to confirm your claim of innocence. Care to link it?

Actually there's a huge thread besides this one.

http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=3294

Always worth joining as different cases get discussed different times.

Basically Charlie Wilkes has an entrenched view of innocence, and there is alawyer1 as well, then RW for the prosecution as here.

There are plenty of links, and so on.

I don't think it is contested the plug was removed for the cat to play with, but I can't be sure. RW knows far more than me.

The long interrogations are quite common in getting people to say what the cops want. Jessey Miskelley from West Memphis 3 is a classic, as is Brendan Dassey and Teina Pora, But those three are 17 year old low smarts guys. Angelique is a more complex character.
It is possible she is glad he's dead but did not ever expect or hope him to be so.

 

[Shiner]

Actually there's a huge thread besides this one.

http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=3294

Always worth joining as different cases get discussed different times.

Basically Charlie Wilkes has an entrenched view of innocence, and there is alawyer1 as well, then RW for the prosecution as here.

There are plenty of links, and so on.

I don't think it is contested the plug was removed for the cat to play with, but I can't be sure. RW knows far more than me.

The long interrogations are quite common in getting people to say what the cops want. Jessey Miskelley from West Memphis 3 is a classic, as is Brendan Dassey and Teina Pora, But those three are 17 year old low smarts guys. Angelique is a more complex character.
It is possible she is glad he's dead but did not ever expect or hope him to be so.

Thanks for the link. I preempted your reply and found the thread myself. I just read a few pages. I didn't see anything to convince me one way or the other.

I agree that the confessions aren't conclusive, given the extraction methods.

I disagree with all the ill informed opinion though. Kayaks, and kayaking is a very simple topic. The pages and pages of people doubting and scoffing about the possibility of the bung plug hole allowing enough water to sink the craft is just mind numbing. Anyone who knows anything about paddle craft doesn't doubt it.

 

[Samson]

Thanks for the link. I preempted your reply and found the thread myself. I just read a few pages. I didn't see anything to convince me one way or the other.

I agree that the confessions aren't conclusive, given the extraction methods.

I disagree with all the ill informed opinion though. Kayaks, and kayaking is a very simple topic. The pages and pages of people doubting and scoffing about the possibility of the bung plug hole allowing enough water to sink the craft is just mind numbing. Anyone who knows anything about paddle craft doesn't doubt it.

You are right. There was an assumption of a craft with the plug hole sitting well above waterline taking casual water into a 3/4 inch orifice, and the impossibility of shipping enough through that hole to start sinking the craft, but RW tidied that up by pointing out once that hole was near waterline with cockpit water accruing there was a tipping point. As usual no one conceded the point and said Jees RW you were right all along. That's how life and the internet seems to work.

 

[RWVBWL]

As the waves do their thing, going up + down.

This happens:


Just a moment, frozen in time as I kayak paddle in winds 17 to 23+ mph, captured by 4 video cameras, showing better than any explaination will do, how water will constantly awash over the stern of a low riding kayak, with-out it flooding into the open cock-pit seating area as I go up + down in the open water wind waves.

Glad that my gal doesn't try to pull a fast 1 + sabotage my gear!
RW

 

[RWVBWL]

What 11 hour interrogation?

I will bet you after an 11 hour interrogation I would confess myself.

Desert Fox,
I wrote of this below, back in June of this year, elsewhere,
from reading the live Courtroom tweets that Nina Schutzman of The Poughkeepsie Journal reported from the Huntley Hearing. Add it to your files, ok?

She was read Miranda warning about a minute after entering interview room, about 3:24 p.m., DeQuarto saysAngelika was indeed read her Miranda Rights, heck, I even seem to recall watching some of this on CCTV either CBS or ABC News before.

Angelika Graswald was not interviewed by Detectives for 11 hours as she was at The Barracks. There were not 2 Detectives, 1 playing good cop, 1 bein' the bad cop, tag-teamin' her straight for 11 hours, yelling at her, nor even hitting her, ok? They apparently questioned her for 5 hours, even gave her some pizza(!) IIRC, Angelika was even video'd by CCTV playin' hop-scotch by herself...

Sure, Angelika was inside the Interrogation room for 11 hours. But she was not questioned straight for that long, just about 5 hours from what I recall reading back in June. She was, according to Detective DeQuarto, drawing, writing, stretching, doing yoga, even smoked some cigarettes.

DeQuarto
describes a drawing made by Graswald during the interview:
It says 'free,' picture of island with palm tree, sun shining and birds

 

[Shiner]

You are right. There was an assumption of a craft with the plug hole sitting well above waterline taking casual water into a 3/4 inch orifice, and the impossibility of shipping enough through that hole to start sinking the craft, but RW tidied that up by pointing out once that hole was near waterline with cockpit water accruing there was a tipping point. As usual no one conceded the point and said Jees RW you were right all along. That's how life and the internet seems to work.

I'm not sure if it was explained thoroughly here or not. So I'll have a go.

As RW showed, the kayak takes on a fair amount of water each time the back end goes underwater. The paddle was over a mile, which is a big paddle across current. . Not for an amatuer.

It was the melt, which means the river was running. It was windy. Any wind when you're kayaking is a PITA, unless it's on your back, and that's not very likely when you're crossing a river. Winds tend to gust along rivers
Lots of chop is a given. The stern submerging every few seconds as you're paddling across the current, hence chop ...... .

If the plug was removed before they paddled across, by the time they got to the island the kayak would have been noticably heavy. You would be aware that it was full of water and sort it out before returning.

It's my opinion that the plug was removed while they were on the island. Always was.
I haven't seen anything to change my opinion yet. I'm not even sure if the prosecution have suggested it because I haven't followed it. I made up my mind from a few news articles last year when it happened.

I've never been a life jacket wearer, but it just recently became law here. Apparently it's law in NY, so I agree with all that he takes some credit here too. I think if I was going to paddle a big icy river like that I'd wear one though. We don't really have icy rivers in Oz.