Angelika Graswald

[RWVBWL]

Likewise, the plug. He went out onto the water without it. Seems like something one would check. That check would have been his responsibility. Obviously, he didn't check. If he had, he may have still gone out, but he would have plugged it with something. I've improvised boat plugs for Jon boats before when they were forgotten. This would be even easier to compensate for as you don't need a completely water tight seal, just something that will deflect most of the water.

If the lack of plug contributed to his death, then Vinnie himself is largely responsible regardless of the actions of anyone else.

Even if Angelika DID remove the plug for some reason, you would have a hard time proving that it was done with the intent of causing his death.

Greetings again TomB,
The drain-age plug has many intriguing questions.
Why did Angelika remove it?
Their kitty Rascal was playing with it?
Hmmmm.

Why is his paddle screw missing?
The kitty, again?

What about that missing gun that the cops asked Angelika about,
and then they found her Diary?

Oops, Upside my Head!
I'm getting sidetracked again!

About that drain-age plug, this article from ABC has some interesting info:
During the interrogation, Graswald told investigators that she had removed the drain plug from Viafore’s kayak days before they went out, and didn’t realize she hadn’t put it back until they were already out on the Hudson. When asked why she hadn’t brought the plug with her, she said, “I thought he had it,” and then later she said, “He didn't have it because I guess I had it.”

“We were already in the water. I’m like, ‘Yo, where’s your plug. Are you kidding me? I was mad at him,” she told investigators. “His boat starting to get lower in the water… because of the waves, because of the plug not being in there… [The kayak] started to fill up, and I knew that the plug wasn’t in there. I was like ‘oh this is not good.’”

Link:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/york-kayak...ation-video-reveals-details/story?id=33696436


For some reason,
this statement:
"‘Yo, where’s your plug."
seems like Angelika is havin'a conversation with Vinny. Out on the Hudson.

So all this time, as they loaded up the yaks, unloaded the yaks, carried them down to the shoreline at Plum Point, and then started on the paddle over to Bannerman Island, neither VV nor his girl knew the plug was missing?

This sure seems like fishy business to me.
I wrote earlier that I too have the same model of Vinny's yak now.
Heck, for those of you folks who don't get down to the beach much, here's a pic from yesterday off of Malibu Pier, the Baywatch lifeguard boyz are pullin' the inflatable back up to the pier, and I'm pointing to The Wall on Malibu Beach, where Gidget learned to surf waaay back in the late 1950's, I seem to recall.

A few hours ago, before it got dark, a bro of mine borrowed + paddled that blue yak I have,
Vinny's model of yak, out onto the Pacific. No wetsuit, no lifejacket, no skirt or thigh straps either,
just some boardshorts, and swim fins. But hey, him + I, we've surfed 15 - 20 ft waves together...

THAT drain-age plug is easily seen by the rear carrying handle, if 2 people carry the yak.
Especially seen, easily so, if left open. Wanna bet?


But 1 thing I have noticed, is that when I carry the yak solo, I grab ahold of it from near the open cock-pit seat, carry it sideways, as it ain't as heavy as the other 2 kayaks I sometimes paddle for pleasure or to look for sharks. Dude might not have noticed the plug missin' if his chick kept, ah, distractin' him...

Supposedly Vinny was paddling in front of Angelika, odd this, in strong winds and river waves.
Most dudes would wanna keep their eye on the weaker, less experienced paddler.

Angelika's Yo statement bothers me, for if she was watching his yak take on water,
she shoulda warned him, early on.

Remember that 911 call?
"Hold on, BABY!"

How easy would this convo have been:
"Hold on, Baby! Yo, where’s your plug."???
While they still coulda paddled back to Bannerman Island.
My 2¢ only,
RW

 

[RWVBWL]

Greeting ya'all,
I might sometimes get a lil bothered by Angelika's blame the kitty, herself or the victim,
in this case we discuss, ok? I think that she is full of ****. Like those crocodile tears she shed in that recent interview.

I can't stand this pic:
The If only I could have paddled harder, dammit... photo

Did you know that Angelika edited the photo,
adding the If only...dammit... caption?

Link:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...54959537435.2059051.1336719237&type=3&theater

Right next to April 22, click the word edited.


But what recently bothered me,
was watching that ABC 20/20 show, where Angelika says something like:
If only Vinny did not make me call 911, I coulda saved him.
Right.

And in another case I've discussed for years,
Some dude who left his DNA inside a young woman raped and knifed to death, I seem to recall this:
Rudy Guede - If only he had a cell phone with him, he woulda called 118. To save Miss Meredith Kercher.
Pfffft.

My opinions only.
RW

 

[Samson]

RW, you still have not attempted to explain why Angelika succeeded in her plan to kill Vinny, only to fall at the last fence, and accidentally explain how the plug went missing. A sensible murderess would blame Vinny for the plug debacle.

 

[quadraginta]

Hiya TomB,
You know somethin I've learned from surfing, plus kayaking, and also,
many years ago being out on Lake Mead as a kid with my long deceased Grandpa Eddie,
whom helped build that Hoover Dam?

It is that life jackets suck if you want to,
or need to go for a swim. Back to shore.

Ever go down to the beach and watch big waves hit the coastline and surfers come, paddle out to ride 'em? You know that bigger waves break farther off the shoreline, right? At some surfspot line-ups it's a good long paddle out there, or back in. Against currents, riptides, undertow, wind even, sometimes.

How many surfers wear life jackets?
See my current avatar? I don't have a life jacket on.
Your leash breaks, you gotta go for a swim...

Life jackets might be great for folks who don't swim too good,
or are far from shore, or don't have other gear to help themselves.
So they need to float around and wait for some help.

You seem to be suggesting that there isn't anything particularly unusual about the absence of a life jacket.

That's one circumstance we can take off the 'suspicious' list, i guess.

 

[Desert Fox]

You seem to be suggesting that there isn't anything particularly unusual about the absence of a life jacket.

That's one circumstance we can take off the 'suspicious' list, i guess.

Being that he decided not to wear one while she did possibly indicates that he was overconfident (or just male ego.)

 

[RWVBWL]

RW, you still have not attempted to explain why Angelika succeeded in her plan to kill Vinny, only to fall at the last fence, and accidentally explain how the plug went missing. A sensible murderess would blame Vinny for the plug debacle.

Hiya Samson,
Do I need to?
Of course I do not have all the answers.
Only Vinny Viafore and Angelika Graswald do.
And Vincent Viafore, well dead men tell no tales, right?


If I remove the drainage plug of your kayak and you go paddling, and water comes in thru the open drain-age hole, + your kayak gets heavier and more water-logged, starts to sink and you go into the water, and you die before help arrives, I have helped bring about your death, no?

Even if you had a skirt on, or thigh straps or a bailer in the kayak, or a VHF radio, + a life jacket on. If you die, I would be guilty of helping to cause the incident that brought about your death.

If I did this to your girl, your dude,
your son or daughter, brother or sister, wouldn't you agree?

It took a lil' while for the water to get in side that open drain-age hole.

It did not happen immediately.
It happened about 1/2 way or 2/3rds of the way back home.
And it did indeed happen.

As more water came in, the stern got lower and lower. At some point, water will have been continuously pouring in thru the open hole, just like turning on a hose...

 

[RWVBWL]

You know, Angels + Demons...

Interesting case.

I, bein' a dude who has gone to a coupla Christian churches for many years, yet also bein' a fan of old '70's + '80's Heavy Metal, well I dig Angelika's conversation with The Detectives about Angels + Demons. It's kinda, how do you say, enlightening? Speakin' of enlightening, I'm glad I finally gotta clue, + never did toss out my old heavy metal albums, ya know, get rid of those satanic messages, hahaha. Play Led Zep backwards, right!


* * * * *

Angelika apparently has a Demon side.
She kinda seems to easily get a lil' peeved, pissy, vindictive ya might say.
Have not you read what she did to her ex-husband?
Or what she was threatening to do to her old boyfriend Mike regarding the cat? B+E, theft.
I wonder if she ever smacked these 2 dudes, hmmmm.

Heck, she was already writing,
not speakin' of, but writing, that she wanted Vinny dead!

Because he wanted to invite a friend over "to play" with Angelika + him.
If Angelika really wrote that she wanted Vinny dead, all because he wanted a 3-some,
how would she feel if her Fiancè was talking of dumping her?

+

For some reason, I'd betcha that Angelika might get a lil' mad.
Mad enough to smack him for rejectin' her???

Opps, Angelika apparently already liked to do this,
for 1 of Vinny's best gal pals said in a NY Times article, I believe it is, that Angelika smacked her dude, again + again, in public Might it have been as hard as these chicks did?

Gettin' beee-itch-slapped in public,
in front of his gal pals, his bro-ettes, his friends?!?
"Hey ya'all, I'm in luv!"
Yikes!



Vinny's last chick has a Demon side,
she even told this to The Detectives.
I guess this too is what The Detectives wanted to hear,
for that's what she recently told the Vargas chick when Angelika was interviewed
and cried a coupla crocodile tears in prison. I told them what they wanted to hear, or some bull crap like that...

+

+

+

+

Vinny got to see Angelika's Demon side.

Watch the rest of the ABC 20/20 video,
http://abcnews.go.com/US/york-kayak-murder-case-timeline-events-mysterious-death/story?id=34973210
you'll hear Angelika tell us more about her Angels + Demons,
which 1 won the eternal battle of Good versus Evil and how it went out there on The River that Sunday evening.

Don'tcha just luv watching Angelika's head bob up+down, yes!
as she talks of being Euphoric???


If Angelika did want Vinny dead,
whatever she does decide to do, to Vinny Viafore,
well it has to be considered an "accident".
Like the police at 1st, believed, it was.
What do they say? Follow the $$$.

My opinions only,
RW

 

[RWVBWL]

Over Confident? Or just Female Ego?

You seem to be suggesting that there isn't anything particularly unusual about the absence of a life jacket.

That's one circumstance we can take off the 'suspicious' list, i guess.

Being that he decided not to wear one while she did possibly indicates that he was overconfident (or just male ego.)

It is kinda odd that in ALL the photographs of Angelika + Vinny out yakin',
even when Angelika was photographed with an open container of Modelo beer in hand on The Hudson in her own red kayak,

that she was not wearing a life jacket at any time.

Overconfident?

Or just female ego?

Heck,
in that Dammit pic I posted a screen grab of:

as Angelika paddles towards a storm front headin' her way,
she still ain't got a life jacket on!

Angelika's 1 Tough girl.

Can't cry in front of Vinny's mom as they search for his body,
but can cry crocodile tears for ABC 20/20 in the prison chapel,
after being locked up for many, many months.
Pfffft.

Link;
http://abc.go.com/shows/2020/listing/2015-11/06-2020-110615-mystery-on-the-hudson


My 2¢ only,
RW

 

[Samson]

RW, I finally watched all the 20/20. Angelika is one captivating personality I imagine you agree.

 

[RWVBWL]

I was mad at him.

RW, I finally watched all the 20/20. Angelika is one captivating personality I imagine you agree.

Hi Samson,
Angelika is an interesting gal, definitely.
I mean who goes into a police station and tells The Detectives that they do not want to see her demon side???

Esh,
we've learned that Angelika likes to drink, she even has been photographed drinking Modelo beer while in in her kayak on The Hudson River, without wearing a life jacket.

We've also learned that she had smacked Vinny Viafore in public before, again + again. I have wondered, in debate, if Angelika was an "angry drinker", ya know, a gal who after drinkin' gets easily pissed. Might her Demon side then come out?

Angelika + Vinny were drinking Modelo beers on that Sunday afternoon.
So I have wondered, in debate, what her mood was when out there on Bannerman Island?

This, from ABC News, linked below, helps gives me a clue:
During the interrogation, Graswald told investigators that she had removed the drain plug from Viafore’s kayak days before they went out, and didn’t realize she hadn’t put it back until they were already out on the Hudson. When asked why she hadn’t brought the plug with her, she said, “I thought he had it,” and then later she said, “He didn't have it because I guess I had it.”

“We were already in the water. I’m like, ‘Yo, where’s your plug. Are you kidding me? I was mad at him,” she told investigators. “His boat starting to get lower in the water… because of the waves, because of the plug not being in there… [The kayak] started to fill up, and I knew that the plug wasn’t in there. I was like ‘oh this is not good.’”

http://abcnews.go.com/US/york-kayak...ation-video-reveals-details/story?id=33696436


* * * * *

Now I don't know about you folks,
but shouldn't a gal be worried that her Fiancè does not have his drain-age plug installed?

Instead,
Angelika was, what did she say?
"I was mad at him."

Pfffft.
RW

 

[RWVBWL]

because of the waves, because of the plug not being in there...

Greetings ya'all,
Some of you know that I have and do paddle Vinny Viafore's model of kayak.
I have mentioned here, + elsehere, that the kayak paddles well in wind, wind waves/windchop + swell. Hardly any water ever gets into the cockpit, and I have been out in winds blowing upwards into the high teens and low 20 miles per hour range.

The bolded comment below, by Angelika, from an ABC report, bothers me.
For it states what I believe, BUT most folks overlook it, or simply dismiss it.

“We were already in the water. I’m like, ‘Yo, where’s your plug. Are you kidding me? I was mad at him,” she told investigators. “His boat starting to get lower in the water… because of the waves, because of the plug not being in there…
[The kayak] started to fill up, and I knew that the plug wasn’t in there. I was like ‘oh this is not good.’”

* * * * *

No where does Angelika say that the waves were sooo big
that the waves were coming up over the side wall of Vinny's kayak and into his cock-pit.

She instead says the "accident" was because of the waves,
+ the plug not being there.

Didn't Angelika remove that plug???

I'm starting to do some tests,
ya know, learning.

Yesterday with the surf here in Los Angeles really small,
I paddled out for a lil' while, rode a few waves in Vinny's yak.
My gal Melissa, who has also paddled Vinny's kayak, shot a few yak-pix.

I have also paddled into, busting thru, and over some larger waves, learning more.
Every surfer, err I'd betcha boaters + kayakers too, know that its a good idea to always have the front of your surfboard, err, bow of the boat or kayak, facing incoming waves.

It's more dangerous to have them hit you sideways, from broadside, ya might say.
So I did other tests, this time sitting sideways as waves approached me and went under and past me.
No problem...

Here's a shot of me starting to paddle into a lil' wave yesterday,
to ride it for a little while:

[SIZE="-5"]Photo:© Melissa Shirley[/SIZE]

Examine the photo.
Paddling quickly, I've just gotten up to speed as a little wave, what I'd visualize might be a kinda big wave out on The Hudson River, starts to build behind me and swell. See tons of water splashing into the open cock-pit? Or even a similar amount of water slpashing into the open cock-pit from say a 5 gallon Home Depot container like they used in the ABC 20/20 show, which I have linked to before?

In the 20/20 show, the paddling tests that they did, well it did not have any real waves. Duh!
Well, except for a few rippling waves, coming over the stern of the dude sittin' in Vinny's model of kayak, which I have pointed out in screen grab pix as the Vargas chick converses with that Wright dude.

Look at the pic Melissa shot of me again.
See the water covering the stern, it's carrying handle and drain-age hole?
The water is even around the back end of the cargo hatch.

That is what Angelika would have seen out there on The Hudson River
as water kept coming over Vinny's stern, the carrying handle, and that open drain-age hole.

For some reason Angelika apparently was not concerned about this,
instead she was mad at Vinny.

15 minutes of water coming over the stern of Vinny Viafore's kayak, and yep, I agree with her statement:
“His boat starting to get lower in the water… because of the waves, because of the plug not being in there…
[The kayak] started to fill up, and I knew that the plug wasn’t in there. I was like ‘oh this is not good.’”

My 2¢ only,
RW

 

[RWVBWL]

I knew that the plug wasn’t in there.

Angelika Graswald:
[The kayak] started to fill up, and I knew that the plug wasn’t in there. I was like ‘oh this is not good.’”


Odd statement.
"I knew that the plug wasn't in there"?

Didn't Vinny know the plug was not there?
Hmmmm.
RW

 

[Samson]

Angelika Graswald:
[The kayak] started to fill up, and I knew that the plug wasn’t in there. I was like ‘oh this is not good.’”


Odd statement.
"I knew that the plug wasn't in therion nse"?

Didn't Vinny know the plug was not there?
Hmmmm.
RW

I am perplexed by Anjelika's candour. The prosecution case is she murdered Vinnie by removing the plug. Mission accomplished.
In this context I am searching for a reason she would say she removed it, when Vinnie is dead and can't be a witness to this fact.

Are we dealing with the stupidity of criminals here? It does not seem plausible.

 

[RWVBWL]

Greetings ya'all!
Been awhile since I posted here, the debate seems to have gone stale. Elsewhere too.
Maybe this post will bring some life back into the discussion, even though it is about a dead man.

Below is a link to a video I shot on January 1st of this year, 2016.
Though I suck at editing video still, I'm learning, and you can now see some of what I know,
for I sometimes paddle the same kayak as did Vincent Viafore.

This vid was tough to edit,
for I had to try and synch 940 pix with live video, picture in picture style.
Rendering vidz is the hardest part though, for ya want it to be crystal clear,
like I shot it in HD.

Hopefully this vid,
shot on a day with calm winds and small surf,
will help some of you folks understand that you can and will sink if you have a hole in your kayak at or near the waterline...

Can the removal of the drain-age plug on a Fusion 124 kayak sink it or help sink it?

You decide.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7UYe-KSsII

 

[Lerxst]

A lifejacket would cover up the goods. Any photos taken before the event are hardly relevant unless you can prove that she either tampered with his lifejacket as well or she convinced him to not wear one. And guys, let's be honest, that's not hard to do.

 

[Desert Fox]

I wanted to add this:

I just got a old Perception Arc whitewater kayak. It is a sit in Kayak where all my previous kayak experience has been with sit on top kayaks.
It is also a flat bottom kayak with no keel and will basically not hold a straight line on its own. I got it for $80 and everything else has been far more.

Granted, I am likely less experienced than he was then but I took it out on the local lake (Beaver Dam Park, Gloucester VA).
Because I was not used to a kayak that will not hold a straight line, I kept having it spin around until I figured out what to do.
Every kayak I have also used has always had a keel so never been an issue in the past.
It was likely less than 15 minutes and the Kayak was half filled with water. In fact, I was worried that the Kayak actually leaked.

Ended up going back to the dock - the lake has a launch and draining all the water and there was a lot.
Likely many gallons / liters of water in total.

Went back into the water with it, worried that the hull of kayak was actually leaking but wanted to make sure.
Initial stayed close enough to the dock so that I could self rescue but soon went further out.
In fact, I went to the other end of the lake. Took the kayak out for almost 2 1/2 more hours and did not have the issue anymore.

When I got back, I drained it again. Other than a little bit of splash, maybe a couple of cups full (0.5 of a liter for non Americans),
there was almost no water. In fact, all of the water had come through the cockpit before. Yes, I had the rear plug in as well.

All this shows that it is very easy to get a lot of water into a kayak quickly with an inexperienced person.
PS: This all happened just today and I basically just got back.

 

[RWVBWL]

Desert Fox,
Greetings, been awhile since we discussed this interesting case here,
at The ISF, right? Hope all is well with ya!

You have made mention that you are nowadays paddling a 'Perception Arc' kayak, like the model type seen here:

Your kayak has a Rounded Hull bottom and has lots of bottom rocker, ah, curvature in it, right?

* * * * *

Any boater, hard core kayaker, or esh, even a surfer who kayaks like me, RW, can easily see the difference's in hull desgn when looking at photographs of the same model of kayak you paddle, when it's compared to the kayak that Vincent Viafore last paddled, a 'Fusion 124' kayak, with its V Shaped Hull, like the kayak seen here leaning on my old Dodge truck:

Heck,
here's another pic of Vincent Viafore's model of kayak, shows the side profile very well:

* * * * *

Not much rocker, er, curvature in the kayak that Viafore paddled,
it sure is pretty flat, right?

Funny thing is, most kayaks are built this way too.
Ever seen an outrigger kayak like they padde in Hawaii? There ain't nowwhere near the amount of rocker as in that kinda kayak as what yours 'Perception Arc' kayak has. Surely this is by design, for outrigger handle open ocean swells really well, as does, from what I can personally vouch for, Viafore's model of kayak, there is not a design defect...

Desert Fox,
How do your own un-scientific kayak paddling tests,
(done while paddling a kayak better suited for using in a narrow creek or running over rocks thru whitewater rapids, when compared to anyone elses tests done paddling Viafore's 'Fusion 124' model of kayak), help us interested folks further understand if what Angelika Graswald did by un-screwing and then removing the Drain-Age Pug from the stern of his kayak, would it cause his kayak to slowly fill with water, in say like 10 minutes or so, and sink, which caused Viafore to enter 46°water, resulting in his death, understand this case better?
See ya,
RW

 

[RWVBWL]

Desert Fox,
Care to share some thoughts for further discussion here on The ISF?
Have you ever paddled a 'Fusion 124' kayak into strong winds, busting thru choppy, white-capping open water little swells?

I have.

Or what about when paddling back towards shore,
with strong gusty winds now coming from the rear of the stern,
hitting you at, say, a 45° angle?

If you did paddle a low riding kayak in gusty winds hitting you at your stern area from an angle as you heading back towards home, well you would know what I know, that wind driven, open water little waves would constantly be awash over your stern area.

Like seen here below, in some of the video screen grabs from 1 of my un-scientific paddling tests while using the same model of kayak, the 'Fusion 124', as Vincent Viafore last paddled, this time I'm paddling around out there in 17 to 20+ mile an hour winds and little white capping open water waves are all about..

Folks,
keep your eye on that little black plug screwed in nice + tight on the back of the yak, ok?

300+ yards offshore, at The Buoy:



There's is plenty of winds and little open water waves out there, keep an eye out for that little black plug:



See the black Drain-Age Plug?


Where is the Drain-Age Pug now? Underwater? Yikes! Glad it's screwed in!!!



By the way, I did not sink out there, nor have water pour into the exposed seating area,
even though I did not have a skirt on, which some kayakers use as a covering to protect their wide open cock-pit seating area. Vincent Viafore's kayak, the 'Fusion 124' kayak, in my humble opinion, handles these kinda conditions very well.
RW

 

[Shiner]

By the way, I did not sink out there, nor have water pour into the exposed seating area,
even though I did not have a skirt on, which some kayakers use as a covering to protect their wide open cock-pit seating area. Vincent Viafore's kayak, the 'Fusion 124' kayak, in my humble opinion, handles these kinda conditions very well.

I've tried to battle through the bluster to see your point. I failed.

Have you taken that yak out in similar conditions with the plug removed? I have to assume, after the amount of time and effort you've put into these posts here, that the thought had occured.

If the answer is in your youtube clickbait, then I guess I shall remain ignorant. A simple paragraph would be more than sufficient.

TIA.

 

[RWVBWL]

Shiner,
Doing a random test paddling around in small waves
I've had the kayak, with the Drain-Age plug un-screwed, removed,
fill up with water and for all intents, it was gonna sink, if I had not right before then,
bailed out of it.

Pic:


Add a dude, like me, RW into this kayak, weighing some 190 lds +,
do you too think I was gonna be in water up to my neck if I had not bailed out?
I'm an old, longtime surfer, I kinda know a bit about waves, wind...

* * * * *

I've been discussing this case for awhile now with Desert Fox elsewhere,
but he is nowadays a no-show ever since I found video showing him similar choppy water conditions out on The Hudson River that is comparable to what I've been doing out here in paddling tests in windy, choppy open water waves in The Pacific.

So since he was the last poster here, many months ago,
well I'm trying to get him to come back out and play, so to say.

For Angelika Graswald will hopefully,
now that her attorney lost his important, last big case, well she'll get her day in Court soon.
(The Boy Scout leader apparently, IIRC, was convicted of touching 2 little boys in his care)
Still in jail, Angelika can't post bail, and her supporters are apparently not having any cookie sales to help her out...
Wonder why?
RW