Which starts me thinking about the phone call. Maybe it took a while to figure out how to maintain stability, and recover the phone from presumably a waterproof bag.
Angelika Graswald
- Thread starter anglolawyer
- Start date
RWVBWL
Master Poster
Hi AngloLawyer,
Yep,
Vinny definitely towers over her:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...13400497235.2133424.1336719237&type=3&theater
+
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202645064909221&set=a.10202644270729367&type=3&theater
Man,
that girl has some arms on her, let me tell ya.
That 2nd pic linked above, her arm looks like it could make a slap sting if she smacked a guy in public
while out on the town, ya know? Sitting side by side, she sure does not look that small next to him, right?
Maybe this case we are discussing,
it was an accident,
but maybe not.
Get the dude a little buzzed, err drunk, off a Modelo beer or 2,
push him outta his kayak, grab his paddle,
and keep away from him until hypo starts to set in,
make a BS call for help, jump outta your own kayak as help arrives,
to ah, ya know, make it look real...
For some reason that
(ooops, wrong case!)
that 2 inch abrasion on Vinny's left side bothers me.
I'd like to see a photo of it, and the bruises too.
I sometimes think of this case as I'm at the beach,
Too bad that
err those $250,000 seem to keep getting in the way.
Heck, I seem to recall reading that Angelika even told someone
what she was gonna do with some of the $$$$...
If folks wanna get a picture of the what relationship was like,
the Facebook page of Angelika's is still up.
I'm a sharing kinda guy,
here's links to her public video's, her cat, a few of Vinny, etc.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.3413400497235.2133424.1336719237&type=3
+
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=vb.1336719237&type=2
+
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1454959537435.2059051.1336719237&type=1
+
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10203997244754904.1336719237&type=3
Kinda gnary to see these,
read the uploading dates and/or times,
read the comments and their dates/times also,
and know that Vinny even posted some of these images too.
I guess it would be like if you were able to see some of the pix of Meredith Mercher and Miss Amanda Knox having fun together, too bad ILE had to fry the computers and lose all of those images, right?
Most all of the uploaded photo's from before Vinny death are of Angelika's cat,
it seems like only after his accident does she start posting pix of him on her page, daily.
Someone in the comments section of People also noted this...
This is gonna be an interesting case to follow and discuss,
especially because there is video of Angelika's police interrogation.
There is also a video of her cartwheel too,
https://www.facebook.com/lanzelika/videos/vb.1336719237/10204295188483311/?type=3&theater
that she uploaded less than a week after "The Accident"
as Vinny's body lies submerged somewhere near where Angelika left him...
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Just a couple of points....
I'm not a kayaker. But I have spent a lot of time on rivers in boats doing scientific field work. So I'll contribute a couple points.
First, River currents are different than ocean currents. In fact each river (or stretch of river) can be different. My point is that the opinions of those familiar with the particular waterway carry more weight.
Second, it does not surprise me at all that she would be unable to say where she had last seen him. I have anchored to make measurements, and looked up a couple minutes later and found myself a long way downstream (dragging the anchor). When you are focused on things in the water you don't notice your movement. Especially in a wide channel. It's landmarks on shore that give you reference for your position. If you aren't looking at them, you don't know where you are.
Third, if someone goes into the water, you probably wouldn't call 911 right away. There would probably be a few minutes of "You okay?" followed by laughing at failed attempts to get back into the boat because it's likely not immediately obvious that it's really a dangerous situation. I'm assuming that after falling in, he attempted to reboard his kayak. She might not have realized he was in trouble until he lost it and was unable to reach it again. So 20 minutes doesn't sound that unreasonable to me.
There are some things she should have done at that point, like throw him her life vest, but sometimes people don't think of the obvious in times of crisis.
As for some of the other things...the missing nut on the paddle for example. Would he not have noticed that? I think I would notice if my paddle was loose and likely to fall apart.
As for her deliberately going into the water...would that look different than if she got up on her knees (or stood) in an attempt to locate him and fell in? The same scene can be interpreted differently.
The yacht club people rescued her two minutes after she went into the water. That doesn't mean they could have been there two minutes after HE went into the water. It means that at some point someone at the club saw them having trouble, ran down to his boat, started it up, untied, and went out to get them. That didn't take two minutes. They may have decided they needed to help on their way ten minutes after he went into the water and it took ten minutes to get there.
Basically, the scenario is equally plausible depending on if you start from an assumption of murder or if you start from an assumption of accident.
I'm not a kayaker. But I have spent a lot of time on rivers in boats doing scientific field work. So I'll contribute a couple points.
First, River currents are different than ocean currents. In fact each river (or stretch of river) can be different. My point is that the opinions of those familiar with the particular waterway carry more weight.
Second, it does not surprise me at all that she would be unable to say where she had last seen him. I have anchored to make measurements, and looked up a couple minutes later and found myself a long way downstream (dragging the anchor). When you are focused on things in the water you don't notice your movement. Especially in a wide channel. It's landmarks on shore that give you reference for your position. If you aren't looking at them, you don't know where you are.
Third, if someone goes into the water, you probably wouldn't call 911 right away. There would probably be a few minutes of "You okay?" followed by laughing at failed attempts to get back into the boat because it's likely not immediately obvious that it's really a dangerous situation. I'm assuming that after falling in, he attempted to reboard his kayak. She might not have realized he was in trouble until he lost it and was unable to reach it again. So 20 minutes doesn't sound that unreasonable to me.
There are some things she should have done at that point, like throw him her life vest, but sometimes people don't think of the obvious in times of crisis.
As for some of the other things...the missing nut on the paddle for example. Would he not have noticed that? I think I would notice if my paddle was loose and likely to fall apart.
As for her deliberately going into the water...would that look different than if she got up on her knees (or stood) in an attempt to locate him and fell in? The same scene can be interpreted differently.
The yacht club people rescued her two minutes after she went into the water. That doesn't mean they could have been there two minutes after HE went into the water. It means that at some point someone at the club saw them having trouble, ran down to his boat, started it up, untied, and went out to get them. That didn't take two minutes. They may have decided they needed to help on their way ten minutes after he went into the water and it took ten minutes to get there.
Basically, the scenario is equally plausible depending on if you start from an assumption of murder or if you start from an assumption of accident.
RWVBWL
Master Poster
All I can say...
Good points all around, TomB
Nice post, I'll keep them in mind as I dig further into this intriguing case.
Hiya Samson,
I've surfed, wearing board shorts only before,
(doing research into that 1989 kayak attack that cost Tamara McAllister her life), in 54° waters to see what would happen to me mentally, and physically, ya know, how long could I stay out in the water without getting in trouble.
1 thing I recall is that my mind was 1000% percent alert.
The other was that I lasted quite a lot longer than I thought I could.
When Vinny went into the water,
unless he was swacked in the head by a paddle or hit his head on a rock,
which does not appear to be the case here which we discuss,
the cold water would have surely woke his arse up!
He would been trying to figure out a way outta the situation.
No way he just sat in the water holding on to the kayak and the seat flotation pad and not spoken with Angelika.
No way that he would not have told Angelika to call for help immediately once he knew he could not, in a very short amount of time, figured out that he could not get back into his kayak and empty it of water and safely paddle back to shore, wet, cold, but alive.
What did Angelika say?
We kept looking at each other?
Pfffft.
Why did it take soooo long to make a phone call?
Here's another interesting tid-bit of info:
Wes Gottlock, 70, whose West Windsor, New York, home overlooks the Hudson River, says he and his wife were looking toward Bannerman's Island on the night of Viafore's disappearance. It was from that island that Graswald has told investigators the pair pushed off into the night.
"All I can say is that we did see them on the island that evening, through our telescope from our house," Gottlock tells PEOPLE.
Orange County District Attorney David Hoovler said at a Thursday news conference that Graswald’s case will be presented to a grand jury. Gottlock tells PEOPLE he was called to testify before a grand jury convened for Graswald's case on Monday.
Link:
http://www.people.com/article/murder-charge-angelika-graswald-hard-to-believe-says-friend
* * *
I wonder what this witness saw that evening thru his telescope
and told the Grand Jury?
Hmmmm....
Good points all around, TomB
Nice post, I'll keep them in mind as I dig further into this intriguing case.
Hiya Samson,
I've surfed, wearing board shorts only before,
(doing research into that 1989 kayak attack that cost Tamara McAllister her life), in 54° waters to see what would happen to me mentally, and physically, ya know, how long could I stay out in the water without getting in trouble.
1 thing I recall is that my mind was 1000% percent alert.
The other was that I lasted quite a lot longer than I thought I could.
When Vinny went into the water,
unless he was swacked in the head by a paddle or hit his head on a rock,
which does not appear to be the case here which we discuss,
the cold water would have surely woke his arse up!
He would been trying to figure out a way outta the situation.
No way he just sat in the water holding on to the kayak and the seat flotation pad and not spoken with Angelika.
No way that he would not have told Angelika to call for help immediately once he knew he could not, in a very short amount of time, figured out that he could not get back into his kayak and empty it of water and safely paddle back to shore, wet, cold, but alive.
What did Angelika say?
We kept looking at each other?
Pfffft.
Why did it take soooo long to make a phone call?
Here's another interesting tid-bit of info:
Wes Gottlock, 70, whose West Windsor, New York, home overlooks the Hudson River, says he and his wife were looking toward Bannerman's Island on the night of Viafore's disappearance. It was from that island that Graswald has told investigators the pair pushed off into the night.
"All I can say is that we did see them on the island that evening, through our telescope from our house," Gottlock tells PEOPLE.
Orange County District Attorney David Hoovler said at a Thursday news conference that Graswald’s case will be presented to a grand jury. Gottlock tells PEOPLE he was called to testify before a grand jury convened for Graswald's case on Monday.
Link:
http://www.people.com/article/murder-charge-angelika-graswald-hard-to-believe-says-friend
* * *
I wonder what this witness saw that evening thru his telescope
and told the Grand Jury?
Hmmmm....
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Desert Fox
Philosopher
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2014
- Messages
- 6,147
If 40 degree water, he can have as little as 15 minutes
RWVBWL
Master Poster
Hi TomB,
I was real surprised to read of where Vinny's body was found after over a month adrift underwater.
Heck with the tide going low and heading down to sea when the "accident" occurred
I would have thought his body, if even ever found, would have been found many, many miles down river.
Not the case though:
The authorities said Mr. Viafore’s body was found on Saturday in the middle of the Hudson River, just south of Bannerman Island and near the United States Military Academy at West Point.
Sheriff Carl E. DuBois of Orange County said his deputies had been posted on the river, guarding the graduation ceremony that day at the academy, when they were flagged by boaters who spotted the body. The deputies secured the body until State Police troopers recovered it from the water.
Link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/27/n...ddle-away-as-fiance-died-prosecutors-say.html
RWVBWL
Master Poster
“He kept, like, watching me, and I kept watching him,”
Hiya AngloLawyer,
Yep, you're right, he is waay bigger than her!
Here's a link from The New York Times with a pic of them both together,
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/01/n...rowned-in-hudson-river-kayaking-accident.html
another article states that Angelika is 5 feet tall and Vinny 6 feet 2 inches.
Man,
she musta been sitting on a kids seat in that pic I linked to earlier today as they shared a cold beverage together!
And she had to have been on her tippy-toes too in the 1st photo
of them goin' for a smootch that I had linked!
Fooled me...
Hiya Samson,
When reading below of this TV interview with Angelika as she recounts her Fiancé's last moments,
I've gotta wonder, did Angelika make that 911 Call for HELP yet?
Have a read yourself too, if you have a moment:
She recounted his final moments to an interviewer for News 12 Westchester on April 23.
“I saw him struggling a little bit,” she said in a soft, halting cadence. “He was trying to figure out how to paddle the waves. And then I just saw him flip, right in front of me.”
Despite his muscular build, Ms. Graswald said she was powerless to keep him from drowning.
“He kept, like, watching me, and I kept watching him,” she said. She remembered calling out: “Just hold on, just hold on!”
“He said, ‘I don’t think I’m going to make it,’ ” Ms. Graswald continued. “I was like, ‘Pff, what are you talking about, you’re going to make it, of course.”
Link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/01/n...rowned-in-hudson-river-kayaking-accident.html
Hiya AngloLawyer,
Yep, you're right, he is waay bigger than her!
Here's a link from The New York Times with a pic of them both together,
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/01/n...rowned-in-hudson-river-kayaking-accident.html
another article states that Angelika is 5 feet tall and Vinny 6 feet 2 inches.
Man,
she musta been sitting on a kids seat in that pic I linked to earlier today as they shared a cold beverage together!
And she had to have been on her tippy-toes too in the 1st photo
of them goin' for a smootch that I had linked!
Fooled me...
Hiya Samson,
When reading below of this TV interview with Angelika as she recounts her Fiancé's last moments,
I've gotta wonder, did Angelika make that 911 Call for HELP yet?
Have a read yourself too, if you have a moment:
She recounted his final moments to an interviewer for News 12 Westchester on April 23.
“I saw him struggling a little bit,” she said in a soft, halting cadence. “He was trying to figure out how to paddle the waves. And then I just saw him flip, right in front of me.”
Despite his muscular build, Ms. Graswald said she was powerless to keep him from drowning.
“He kept, like, watching me, and I kept watching him,” she said. She remembered calling out: “Just hold on, just hold on!”
“He said, ‘I don’t think I’m going to make it,’ ” Ms. Graswald continued. “I was like, ‘Pff, what are you talking about, you’re going to make it, of course.”
Link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/01/n...rowned-in-hudson-river-kayaking-accident.html
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RWVBWL, you are making a case, and that is why these discussions are so helpful, when there are plausible alternative theories, only one of which can be right. In this case, I think we could have a half way house, where it was a genuine accident, and then Angelika froze with the realisation it was an opportunity.Hiya AngloLawyer,
Yep, you're right, he is waay bigger than her!
Here's a link from The New York Times with a pic of them both together,
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/01/n...rowned-in-hudson-river-kayaking-accident.html
another article states that Angelika is 5 feet tall and Vinny 6 feet 2 inches.
Man,
she musta been sitting on a kids seat in that pic I linked to earlier today as they shared a cold beverage together!
And she had to have been on her tippy-toes too in the 1st photo
of them goin' for a smootch that I had linked!
Fooled me...
Hiya Samson,
When reading below of this TV interview with Angelika as she recounts her Fiancé's last moments,
I've gotta wonder, did Angelika make that 911 Call for HELP yet?
Have a read yourself too, if you have a moment:
She recounted his final moments to an interviewer for News 12 Westchester on April 23.
“I saw him struggling a little bit,” she said in a soft, halting cadence. “He was trying to figure out how to paddle the waves. And then I just saw him flip, right in front of me.”
Despite his muscular build, Ms. Graswald said she was powerless to keep him from drowning.
“He kept, like, watching me, and I kept watching him,” she said. She remembered calling out: “Just hold on, just hold on!”
“He said, ‘I don’t think I’m going to make it,’ ” Ms. Graswald continued. “I was like, ‘Pff, what are you talking about, you’re going to make it, of course.”
Link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/01/n...rowned-in-hudson-river-kayaking-accident.html
But I wonder why she neglected to retain a lawyer, just like Amanda Knox.
Angelika's cartwheel is a beauty, if only we had that missing video of Amanda,s for a comparison. Why do these people with such great plans draw attention to themselves? Why not say to themselves, I think I need a lawyer? If I got one thing wrong I am toast.
RWVBWL
Master Poster
April Fools!
Greeting ya'all!
I'm learing a lot more about this case as I continue digging around.
Interesting stuff, ya might say!
Just for giggles with all you fellow Amanda Knox Cartwheel Thread participants here on The ISF,
who might also be getting interested in this intriguing case also,
have a look at a photo that photog Angelika posted onto her Instagram account,
on April Fools Day of this year, just a few weeks before Vinny is gonna have his "accident".
Classic!
Greeting ya'all!
I'm learing a lot more about this case as I continue digging around.
Interesting stuff, ya might say!
Just for giggles with all you fellow Amanda Knox Cartwheel Thread participants here on The ISF,
who might also be getting interested in this intriguing case also,
have a look at a photo that photog Angelika posted onto her Instagram account,
on April Fools Day of this year, just a few weeks before Vinny is gonna have his "accident".
Classic!
RWVBWL
Master Poster
For anyone interested,
it seems to me that Angelika was not really using FaceBook
to post and publicly display her photographs.
Her is her Angelikas_eye, Instagram account:
https://instagram.com/angelikas_eye/
Lots of nice images in there.
There's more, different photo's, artsy photo's, here:
Photo Art by Angelika's Eye
http://www.photosight.com/ownpage.php?authorID=2609
I like her work in this site, but it seems most or all of the images were photographed years ago. But I am more curious about her life and luv of Vinny Viafore...
I wondered if Angelika and/or Vinny shot pix on the day they last spent together.
I seem to recall Vinny wanting to do some shooting of his gal on the Island.
I just found out about another witness,
the wife of the guy I found earlier, who testified in front of The Grand Jury.
Here's some more info, makes mention of photo's from that afternoon:
Graswald began volunteering three years ago in the gardens on Bannerman Island, a landmark for its crumbling, castle-like 19th-century arsenal near the river's east shore, Bannerman Castle Trust executive director Neil Caplan said.
"She's a very nice person and a hard worker," he said. "We're all stunned."
"She was there with police, and they had asked her to walk around," he said. "It seemed they may have had some suspicions about her."
Barbara Gottlock, a friend of Graswald who did volunteer work with her, told NBC 4 New York Thursday that Graswald seemed to be "happy and in love" with her fiance.
"She never said anything in my presence negative about him," she said.
Gottlock said she and her husband, whose home overlooks the water, remember seeing Graswald and Viafore just as they pushed their kayaks into the water from Bannerman's Island.
"I could see a woman and a man out there, but I couldn't make out faces," Gottlock said. "We put two and two together and figured that's her. And then she sent a few pictures from the island before she left."
Link:
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...-Missing-New-York-Hudson-River-302204221.html
* * *
I'd luv to see any photographs from before they went into the water, when they did so, when they arrived on The Island, or when they left to head back to Plum Point.
Sounds like, if she was able to send pix to her friend and volunteer co-worker Barbara Gottlock, that Angelika had a smart phone, probably why it did not get frizzed out by wind waves as she finally made that 911 call for help. I'm curious about those few pix...
it seems to me that Angelika was not really using FaceBook
to post and publicly display her photographs.
Her is her Angelikas_eye, Instagram account:
https://instagram.com/angelikas_eye/
Lots of nice images in there.
There's more, different photo's, artsy photo's, here:
Photo Art by Angelika's Eye
http://www.photosight.com/ownpage.php?authorID=2609
I like her work in this site, but it seems most or all of the images were photographed years ago. But I am more curious about her life and luv of Vinny Viafore...
I wondered if Angelika and/or Vinny shot pix on the day they last spent together.
I seem to recall Vinny wanting to do some shooting of his gal on the Island.
I just found out about another witness,
the wife of the guy I found earlier, who testified in front of The Grand Jury.
Here's some more info, makes mention of photo's from that afternoon:
Graswald began volunteering three years ago in the gardens on Bannerman Island, a landmark for its crumbling, castle-like 19th-century arsenal near the river's east shore, Bannerman Castle Trust executive director Neil Caplan said.
"She's a very nice person and a hard worker," he said. "We're all stunned."
"She was there with police, and they had asked her to walk around," he said. "It seemed they may have had some suspicions about her."
Barbara Gottlock, a friend of Graswald who did volunteer work with her, told NBC 4 New York Thursday that Graswald seemed to be "happy and in love" with her fiance.
"She never said anything in my presence negative about him," she said.
Gottlock said she and her husband, whose home overlooks the water, remember seeing Graswald and Viafore just as they pushed their kayaks into the water from Bannerman's Island.
"I could see a woman and a man out there, but I couldn't make out faces," Gottlock said. "We put two and two together and figured that's her. And then she sent a few pictures from the island before she left."
Link:
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...-Missing-New-York-Hudson-River-302204221.html
* * *
I'd luv to see any photographs from before they went into the water, when they did so, when they arrived on The Island, or when they left to head back to Plum Point.
Sounds like, if she was able to send pix to her friend and volunteer co-worker Barbara Gottlock, that Angelika had a smart phone, probably why it did not get frizzed out by wind waves as she finally made that 911 call for help. I'm curious about those few pix...
RWVBWL
Master Poster
Gosh,
being an old poster from The Innocentisi
who argued in The Amanda Knox thread, well I'm trippin' a bit being a Guilter, ya know?
But hey,
the cases are different,
and wind, water and waves are involved,
yea!
Anyways,
that said, this Guilter sure likes The Witnesses
that I've watched so far in this brutally cold° "accident",
err murder investigation.
Watch the linked video,
and Meet The Gottlock's:
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...der-Angelika-Graswald-New-York-301826811.html
These folks did not come forward months or a year later,
like some of the pro-guilt "Super Witnesses" did in the Amanda Knox case.
Just sayin'...
RW
being an old poster from The Innocentisi
who argued in The Amanda Knox thread, well I'm trippin' a bit being a Guilter, ya know?
But hey,
the cases are different,
and wind, water and waves are involved,
yea!
Anyways,
that said, this Guilter sure likes The Witnesses
that I've watched so far in this brutally cold° "accident",
err murder investigation.
Watch the linked video,
and Meet The Gottlock's:
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...der-Angelika-Graswald-New-York-301826811.html
These folks did not come forward months or a year later,
like some of the pro-guilt "Super Witnesses" did in the Amanda Knox case.
Just sayin'...
RW
anglolawyer
Banned
Gosh,
being an old poster from The Innocentisi
who argued in The Amanda Knox thread, well I'm trippin' a bit being a Guilter, ya know?
But hey,
the cases are different,
and wind, water and waves are involved,
yea!
Anyways,
that said, this Guilter sure likes The Witnesses
that I've watched so far in this brutally cold° "accident",
err murder investigation.
Watch the linked video,
and Meet The Gottlock's:
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...der-Angelika-Graswald-New-York-301826811.html
These folks did not come forward months or a year later,
like some of the pro-guilt "Super Witnesses" did in the Amanda Knox case.
Just sayin'...
RW
Wow! Staggered by these new witnesses! Who prove .. errr, what exactly?
RWVBWL
Master Poster
Well,
as I ain't an expert,
I might suggest that they help prove whatever it is that occurred in the waters there?
Ya know, help with The Timeline like ah, ol' "Toto" kinda did in the AK case?
A telescope in the living room,
cool.
I luv using my Nikon 16 x 50 binoc's to watch the local waters,
and even kayakers paddlin' in strong winds and waves, sometimes nearly a mile off shore...
The witnesses saw Vinny and Angelika leave, she sent a few pix over then.
Maybe, again, I'm speculating, that they saw when the "accident" 1st started, I wonder how LE knew he fell into the water at 7:15, but Angelika did not call 911 until 7:40pm, which was obviously recorded then.
Random notes for ya, before I bail from bein' online.
His kayak was found near Plum Point.
She was spotted by a woman at The Yacht Club,
the guys on the workboat went out and got her.
From a good article by NewsWeek:
From her red kayak, she called the police, and then, she says, she wound up in the water too. At around 7:30 p.m., a woman at the Cornwall Yacht Club spotted Graswald, who was wearing a life jacket, and with two other members set out in the club’s work boat and rescued her. By the time they brought her ashore, emergency responders had arrived. Graswald told her rescuers Viafore was still missing, so the club members “turned around and went back out in the water,” says club commodore Jeff Schaak, in search for Viafore, who police later said was not wearing a life jacket. As the night dragged on, more boats joined the search. “There were helicopters and flashing lights all over Cornwall,” Seiz says.
Just after midnight, police found Viafore’s blue kayak in the Hudson near Plum Point Park, where the couple’s outing had started. But his body never turned up.
<snip>
Link:
http://www.newsweek.com/hobby-or-ho...appearance-turned-murder-investigation-332946
The sun set at 7:39pm that night, surely it was not pitch dark then...
I'm out, have a good one!
RW
as I ain't an expert,
I might suggest that they help prove whatever it is that occurred in the waters there?
Ya know, help with The Timeline like ah, ol' "Toto" kinda did in the AK case?
A telescope in the living room,
cool.
I luv using my Nikon 16 x 50 binoc's to watch the local waters,
and even kayakers paddlin' in strong winds and waves, sometimes nearly a mile off shore...
The witnesses saw Vinny and Angelika leave, she sent a few pix over then.
Maybe, again, I'm speculating, that they saw when the "accident" 1st started, I wonder how LE knew he fell into the water at 7:15, but Angelika did not call 911 until 7:40pm, which was obviously recorded then.
Random notes for ya, before I bail from bein' online.
His kayak was found near Plum Point.
She was spotted by a woman at The Yacht Club,
the guys on the workboat went out and got her.
From a good article by NewsWeek:
From her red kayak, she called the police, and then, she says, she wound up in the water too. At around 7:30 p.m., a woman at the Cornwall Yacht Club spotted Graswald, who was wearing a life jacket, and with two other members set out in the club’s work boat and rescued her. By the time they brought her ashore, emergency responders had arrived. Graswald told her rescuers Viafore was still missing, so the club members “turned around and went back out in the water,” says club commodore Jeff Schaak, in search for Viafore, who police later said was not wearing a life jacket. As the night dragged on, more boats joined the search. “There were helicopters and flashing lights all over Cornwall,” Seiz says.
Just after midnight, police found Viafore’s blue kayak in the Hudson near Plum Point Park, where the couple’s outing had started. But his body never turned up.
<snip>
Link:
http://www.newsweek.com/hobby-or-ho...appearance-turned-murder-investigation-332946
The sun set at 7:39pm that night, surely it was not pitch dark then...
I'm out, have a good one!
RW
anglolawyer
Banned
There is no suggestion that the Glossips stayed watching them as they floated away.
Whoah Gottlocks. Glossip is an American case where he is being executed in 2 weeks.
(Glossop was a character from PG Wodehouse lol)
anglolawyer
Banned
I knew it was wrong but couldn't be bothered to check
. Have it your way, then. Glotnicks.whoanellie
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2012
- Messages
- 1,471
\Gosh,
being an old poster from The Innocentisi
who argued in The Amanda Knox thread, well I'm trippin' a bit being a Guilter, ya know?
But hey,
the cases are different,
Biggest differences:
1) I believe it took much longer for Graswald to crack under interrogation
2) We actually have some video of the interrogation to look at
3) In this case there isn't an actual crime
Other than that its the same ever-changing theory of the crime, focus on alleged strange behavior, etc. We even have a cartwheel.
This doesn't really surprise me much at all. In rivers, currents are not uniform from shore to shore or top to bottom. It's been a while since limnology class and I'm not a hydrologist, but I believe around a bend, the current will be faster on the outside of the bend than the inside and surface current is often fast while current on the bottom is slow.
For illustration:
http://www.eoearth.org/view/article/155233/
Basically, once his body made it into one of these pockets of laminar flow, say on the bottom or the side of the channel, it's not going to go too far.
RWVBWL
Master Poster
Modelo
Greetings TomB,
Thanks for the explanation,
I can, bein' an experienced yaker,
dig and understand the differences from river yakin'
vs ocean yakin'.
Maybe a similar comparison would be like having a rip current
pulling hard out to sea, yet right next to it, it's all ok.
Swim sideways,
err Parallel to the Beach!
Vinny's body was found just down the way.
So how strong was the current, how high the waves???
That said though,
this Hudson River vid that Angelika posted,
from Wed. June 18, 2014, sure looks like fun!:
https://instagram.com/p/pZbuHIKIs2/
Press play on the link, you'll see some fun chop,
err waves I guess they call them back out there...
Kindergarten stuff for me,
come on, let's go play, err I mean, paddle, ok?
Yea!
You mentioned havin' your anchor dragged in a river,
I've too, on more than a few times,
but in the ocean though.
Heck,
I 1st started yakin' with an anchor system for my yak with 50 feet of 1'4" rope,
and the 1st time that system did not reach the bottom, well I went and bought 300 feet of 1/4" anchor rope.
I sometimes paddle well offshore,
over deep canyons where the botton is waaaay deeper than 300 feet,
so if I need ta take a nap, well I don't drop my regular anchor,
as it will not touch the bottom, I'll just bust out + use my parachute anchor instead.
Works great...
* * * * * *
Here's an interesting, but tragic story:
A girl and boy went out yakin' in separate kayaks,
conditions got gnarly, and both, yes, both of their kayaks capsized.
She was able to swim to safety, he did not. 1 of their paddles was recovered.
His body was recovered a few days later though:
http://www.click2houston.com/news/h...for-missing-kayaker-in-buffalo-bayou/35237778
In the case we discuss here in The ISF,
Vinny capsized, and lost his paddle,
but oddly, Angelika did not capsize. Nor did she lose her paddle.
But she was able to paddle over to, grasp and then secure Vinny's kayak paddle to her yak.
Once again, how strong was that wind, how big were the waves?
* * * * *
There was also a kayak accident that resulted in a death on The Hudson
after Vinny Viafore's "accident".
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...riend-kayak-accident-alcohol-played-role.html
In this situation, both were drinking.
But these 2,
a guy and his gal,
were paddling a double kayak, and so when it capsized,
both went in the water, but only she survived.
Same Hudson River,
but his body was found a coupla days later.
* * * * *
I find it odd that Angelika choose to wear a life jacket the day Vinny disappeared.
Yet in every single photo I can find of her, she is never wearing a lifejacket.
Hmmmm.
Both Vinny and Angelika were drinkin beers on that Sunday afternoon.
Vinny, when found, had a BAC of 0.066.
I wonder what her BAC was that evening?
Here's their cooler from that Sunday(*):
Modelo's!
Good beer,
I've luved drinking them since I met a lil' hottie named Estelle who liked to hang out at the old surfshop in DogTown that I used to run turned me on to them, a waaay better tastin' beer that Bud, PBR or Corona, in my humble surfer opinion!
Heck,
it appears, from this photograph below,
a photo shot on a previous kayaking paddle adventure,
that even Angelika luved the taste of a Modelo while out yakin', without her lifejacket on, of course!
I find it odd that she apparently drank some of those Modelo beers too,
but did not capsize.
And I find it extremely odd for a wingman to not throw out her own lifejacket to a her Fiancé
when he 1st said he did not think he was gonna make it!
Gosh,
I sooo wonder if Angelika had her cell phone out,
and had it placed between her legs and had already made that 911 call
for help and was told that help was on the way when Vinny was sayin' he was not gonna make it!
Or did she make the call for help when she knew he had no chance?
Heck, I seem to recall reading that Vinny was tossed into the water about 2/3's of the way back to Plum Point.
The place where they had originally departed from.
But when Angelika was spotted, and rescued,
she was down near the Cornwall Yacht Club,
quite a ways down from where Vinny shoulda been, near her.
Where, IIRC, his kayak was found hours later.
Swamped and barely afloat under the surface of the water, I'd imagine.
My 2¢ only,
RW
(*) - Link:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/interrogation-video-raises-key-questions-in-new-york-kayak-murder-case/
Greetings TomB,
Thanks for the explanation,
I can, bein' an experienced yaker,
dig and understand the differences from river yakin'
vs ocean yakin'.
Maybe a similar comparison would be like having a rip current
pulling hard out to sea, yet right next to it, it's all ok.
Swim sideways,
err Parallel to the Beach!
Vinny's body was found just down the way.
So how strong was the current, how high the waves???
That said though,
this Hudson River vid that Angelika posted,
from Wed. June 18, 2014, sure looks like fun!:
https://instagram.com/p/pZbuHIKIs2/
Press play on the link, you'll see some fun chop,
err waves I guess they call them back out there...
Kindergarten stuff for me,
come on, let's go play, err I mean, paddle, ok?
Yea!
You mentioned havin' your anchor dragged in a river,
I've too, on more than a few times,
but in the ocean though.
Heck,
I 1st started yakin' with an anchor system for my yak with 50 feet of 1'4" rope,
and the 1st time that system did not reach the bottom, well I went and bought 300 feet of 1/4" anchor rope.
I sometimes paddle well offshore,
over deep canyons where the botton is waaaay deeper than 300 feet,
so if I need ta take a nap, well I don't drop my regular anchor,
as it will not touch the bottom, I'll just bust out + use my parachute anchor instead.
Works great...
* * * * * *
Here's an interesting, but tragic story:
A girl and boy went out yakin' in separate kayaks,
conditions got gnarly, and both, yes, both of their kayaks capsized.
She was able to swim to safety, he did not. 1 of their paddles was recovered.
His body was recovered a few days later though:
http://www.click2houston.com/news/h...for-missing-kayaker-in-buffalo-bayou/35237778
In the case we discuss here in The ISF,
Vinny capsized, and lost his paddle,
but oddly, Angelika did not capsize. Nor did she lose her paddle.
But she was able to paddle over to, grasp and then secure Vinny's kayak paddle to her yak.
Once again, how strong was that wind, how big were the waves?
* * * * *
There was also a kayak accident that resulted in a death on The Hudson
after Vinny Viafore's "accident".
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...riend-kayak-accident-alcohol-played-role.html
In this situation, both were drinking.
But these 2,
a guy and his gal,
were paddling a double kayak, and so when it capsized,
both went in the water, but only she survived.
Same Hudson River,
but his body was found a coupla days later.
* * * * *
I find it odd that Angelika choose to wear a life jacket the day Vinny disappeared.
Yet in every single photo I can find of her, she is never wearing a lifejacket.
Hmmmm.
Both Vinny and Angelika were drinkin beers on that Sunday afternoon.
Vinny, when found, had a BAC of 0.066.
I wonder what her BAC was that evening?
Here's their cooler from that Sunday(*):
Modelo's!
Good beer,
I've luved drinking them since I met a lil' hottie named Estelle who liked to hang out at the old surfshop in DogTown that I used to run turned me on to them, a waaay better tastin' beer that Bud, PBR or Corona, in my humble surfer opinion!
Heck,
it appears, from this photograph below,
a photo shot on a previous kayaking paddle adventure,
that even Angelika luved the taste of a Modelo while out yakin', without her lifejacket on, of course!
I find it odd that she apparently drank some of those Modelo beers too,
but did not capsize.
And I find it extremely odd for a wingman to not throw out her own lifejacket to a her Fiancé
when he 1st said he did not think he was gonna make it!
Gosh,
I sooo wonder if Angelika had her cell phone out,
and had it placed between her legs and had already made that 911 call
for help and was told that help was on the way when Vinny was sayin' he was not gonna make it!
Or did she make the call for help when she knew he had no chance?
Heck, I seem to recall reading that Vinny was tossed into the water about 2/3's of the way back to Plum Point.
The place where they had originally departed from.
But when Angelika was spotted, and rescued,
she was down near the Cornwall Yacht Club,
quite a ways down from where Vinny shoulda been, near her.
Where, IIRC, his kayak was found hours later.
Swamped and barely afloat under the surface of the water, I'd imagine.
My 2¢ only,
RW
(*) - Link:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/interrogation-video-raises-key-questions-in-new-york-kayak-murder-case/
Last edited:
RWVBWL
Master Poster
Thank goodness for video interrogation(*)!
What else does Angelika and The Detective wanna talk about?
+
+
+
+
Hmmmm...
Now I ain't no Detective,
but it seems kinda odd to me, a surfer bachelor,
to see Angelika publicly postin' a pic of herself sharin' a coldie with a grinning dude on April 25th:
https://instagram.com/p/16JFqVKIq1/?taken-by=angelikas_eye
while her Fiancé is somewhere underwater in the nearby Hudson River.
Just for fun,
Let's see what this Instagram post from angelikas_eye says, ok?:
#somethingaboutthoseelephants #pink #elephant #love #HOPE #ilovebeer
Not a FIND VINNY! in the post.
Hmmmm.
I hate to tell ya this, Whoanellie,
but a Grand Jury in The State of New York says that yes, there was a crime committed.
A witness even testified in front of this Grand Jury.
And it will, most likely, be going to trial.
Right on, give Angelika her day in Court!
Guess what,
we ain't dealing with no PM Mignini here!
You do recall that PM Migi had the MOF over his head, right?
None of that here.
These cops are the good guys!
The cops that arrested Angelika did not do so right away.
They 1st thought it was an accident. But sometimes things do not add up.
Like here in this case we discuss.
Angelika's statements from when she was pulled outta the water did not jive with what she told Detectives,
who were just trying to find Vinny's body when they hit her up on Island,
and started questioning her, what was it,
some 10 days later?.
The cops did not harass her like they did AK to solve a horrible rape and murder
that was sending foreign college students fleeing back home
and tarnishing the reputation of this quint lil' Italian town.
Nope, Nope, + Nope!
How often was Angelika asked to stop by
err I mean the police station?
3 times? 2?, 1?
None?
Angelika was free to mourn,
err free to drink Elephant beer with grinnin' dudes,
hahahaha...
Hey Whoanellie!
Don't forget Angelika's April Fools post on her Instagram:
RW
(*) - Link:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/interrogation-video-raises-key-questions-in-new-york-kayak-murder-case/
Last edited: