ZEITGEIST, The Movie

[The Almond]

Incredible is the word you meant to use. We made fantastic leaps in every aspect of society, in the past 50 years. We've invented new artforms, communications devices, methods of transportation. We've made astonishing leaps in every scientific field, medicine. Western culture has gone on transformed our ideas on gender roles, sexuality, and other races. We engage in practices that would be scandalous to our great grandparents.

The lunar landing did not occur in a vacuum (insert Malcolm Kirkman joke here) It came on the back of extraordinary advances in technology and no how. And they did it with pencils and slide rulers.

Since the thread is dead, I thought I'd insert this interesting side note. On one of the Apollo flights, Buzz Aldrin used a star chart and an astrolabe to navigate the spacecraft after the computers failed. That guy was awesome.

 

[Jrps75]

For Grimlorn

I don't know if this is true. It could be pretty fake but it atleast sounds like enough to look into. Is that guy a credible source or is he some crazy guy that just asked for a picture with the guy and made the stuff up?

The guy you are referring to is Aaron Russo. He is definitely not a crazy guy that got into one picture with Rockefeller. He has made a documentary called America: Freedom to Fascism that is worth watching. You can watch it on Google videos or through the link on Wikipedia, which has information about Russo. He is a Hollywood director that has made some successful films and has been involved in politics for years.

 

[beachnut]

I can see why the lunar landings are so unbelievable.

We fought with swords for thousands of years. In the late 1800's and early 1900's we just developed cars that go like 10 to 15 miles an hour or something like that?

We went from that to flying hundreds of thousands of miles to the moon in like 70 years. Its a huge leap we made.

No, it was one small step for man...

 

[Viper Daimao]

for A man.

 

[beachnut]

for A man.

Is if fair to know the facts? You have studied well.

 

[beachnut]

The guy you are referring to is Aaron Russo. He is definitely not a crazy guy that got into one picture with Rockefeller. He has made a documentary called America: Freedom to Fascism that is worth watching. You can watch it on Google videos or through the link on Wikipedia, which has information about Russo. He is a Hollywood director that has made some successful films and has been involved in politics for years.

A woo movie. Wow. Funny how it is free to present lies about anything you want, and make money. The title should read Fraud: Free to lie In America (buyer beware).

The idiot has stopped paying taxes. Funny when a fool believes his own lies.

 

[Viper Daimao]

a comment on the tax law information presented in "Freedom to Fascism", from a George Washington Law Professor. Short version: everything Arron Russo says is wrong.

 

[Gravy]

The guy you are referring to is Aaron Russo. He is definitely not a crazy guy that got into one picture with Rockefeller. He has made a documentary called America: Freedom to Fascism that is worth watching. You can watch it on Google videos or through the link on Wikipedia, which has information about Russo. He is a Hollywood director that has made some successful films and has been involved in politics for years.

Correction: Russo is a paranoid nutjob. As for "Rockefeller," if it's "Nick" you're talking about, I suggest you look into his importance and what his relationship is to any famous Rockefeller.

 

[pandamonk]

Ok, from the documentary:

The FBI released a list of the 19 hijackers of 911. At least 6 of these men are still alive and have came forward. However, the list has not been revised...

At the pentagon, there was no evidence of a plane crash. (they claim that the entire plane vaporized by the burning of jet fuel and yet they managed to get DNA and fingerprint evidence from non-vaporized people. If metal, aluminium, steel, etc, simply vaporizes, then so must flesh). They also covered the lawn with dirt and gravel, hiding any forensic evidence. The films from nearby security cameras, which would have seen the event, were confiscated immediately, and have not been released. These would undoubtedly be proof of the planes impact, and yet they are not released. Over 80 videos are being withheld by the FBI, apparently.

Refutation of pancake theory, including talks with the structural engineer(Les Robertson), and construction manager(Frank A. Demartini) of WTCs who say it cope with impact of Boeing 707 hitting at any location, and could probably sustain multiple impacts. The 47 steel columns will only fail simultaneously if cut, usually at an angle. This is how demolition experts do it, and it is how the columns are shown after collapse. This could not happen to so many columns by coincidence. There was also molten steel up to 5 weeks after the collapse. For steel to be molten, it must be, minimum, 500 fahrenheit hotter than jet fuel, which was the main source of heat. There were also sub-basement explosions, apparently, before even the first plane hit.

Scrabblers fail 4 times in one day, to bring down hijacked plane, even with a 100% accuracy before this day.

There is lots more...

 

[Gravy]

Same old claims, pandamonk, and all are false. Zeitgeist is WAY behind the times in terms of what 9/11 nuttery to promote. See what we deal with every day over in this corner of the JREF forum?

 

[pandamonk]

There must obviously be a lot of proof against thsee, please provide me with some links...

 

[T.A.M.]

Ok, from the documentary:

The FBI released a list of the 19 hijackers of 911. At least 6 of these men are still alive and have came forward. However, the list has not been revised...

At the pentagon, there was no evidence of a plane crash. (they claim that the entire plane vaporized by the burning of jet fuel and yet they managed to get DNA and fingerprint evidence from non-vaporized people. If metal, aluminium, steel, etc, simply vaporizes, then so must flesh). They also covered the lawn with dirt and gravel, hiding any forensic evidence. The films from nearby security cameras, which would have seen the event, were confiscated immediately, and have not been released. These would undoubtedly be proof of the planes impact, and yet they are not released. Over 80 videos are being withheld by the FBI, apparently.

Refutation of pancake theory, including talks with the structural engineer(Les Robertson), and construction manager(Frank A. Demartini) of WTCs who say it cope with impact of Boeing 707 hitting at any location, and could probably sustain multiple impacts. The 47 steel columns will only fail simultaneously if cut, usually at an angle. This is how demolition experts do it, and it is how the columns are shown after collapse. This could not happen to so many columns by coincidence. There was also molten steel up to 5 weeks after the collapse. For steel to be molten, it must be, minimum, 500 fahrenheit hotter than jet fuel, which was the main source of heat. There were also sub-basement explosions, apparently, before even the first plane hit.

Scrabblers fail 4 times in one day, to bring down hijacked plane, even with a 100% accuracy before this day.

There is lots more...

the answers to all these questions, from reliable sources, can be found by going to the link in Gravy's signature, or by searching this site, or by going to 911myths.com

TAM

 

[Gravy]

There must obviously be a lot of proof against thsee, please provide me with some links...

Correct. You can use the forum search function and/or check the links in my signature.

 

[beachnut]

Ok, from the documentary:

The FBI released a list of the 19 hijackers of 911. At least 6 of these men are still alive and have came forward. However, the list has not been revised...

At the pentagon, there was no evidence of a plane crash. (they claim that the entire plane vaporized by the burning of jet fuel and yet they managed to get DNA and fingerprint evidence from non-vaporized people. If metal, aluminium, steel, etc, simply vaporizes, then so must flesh). They also covered the lawn with dirt and gravel, hiding any forensic evidence. The films from nearby security cameras, which would have seen the event, were confiscated immediately, and have not been released. These would undoubtedly be proof of the planes impact, and yet they are not released. Over 80 videos are being withheld by the FBI, apparently.

Refutation of pancake theory, including talks with the structural engineer(Les Robertson), and construction manager(Frank A. Demartini) of WTCs who say it cope with impact of Boeing 707 hitting at any location, and could probably sustain multiple impacts. The 47 steel columns will only fail simultaneously if cut, usually at an angle. This is how demolition experts do it, and it is how the columns are shown after collapse. This could not happen to so many columns by coincidence. There was also molten steel up to 5 weeks after the collapse. For steel to be molten, it must be, minimum, 500 fahrenheit hotter than jet fuel, which was the main source of heat. There were also sub-basement explosions, apparently, before even the first plane hit.

Scrabblers fail 4 times in one day, to bring down hijacked plane, even with a 100% accuracy before this day.

There is lots more...

Leslie Roberson has told everyone the planes their building was designed to withstand were slow moving planes. That makes the impacts on 9/11 7 to 11 times bigger than design. That is a big difference. The truth movement is based on lies.

 

[pandamonk]

Leslie Roberson has told everyone the planes their building was designed to withstand were slow moving planes. That makes the impacts on 9/11 7 to 11 times bigger than design. That is a big difference. The truth movement is based on lies.

There was a video on Zeitgeist, in which Les Roberson said that it was designed to cope with the impact of a Boeing 707. The 707, is only very slightly smaller than the 767 that hit. The 767 is slightky heavier, and the 707 is slightly faster.

 

[Gravy]

There was a video on Zeitgeist, in which Les Roberson said that it was designed to cope with the impact of a Boeing 707. The 707, is only very slightly smaller than the 767 that hit. The 767 is slightky heavier, and the 707 is slightly faster.

The Robertson calculation was assuming a slow-moving aircraft, lost in the fog, looking for an airport. Of course, the towers did withstand the impacts. More importantly, the WTC engineers lacked the ability to calculate the damage that the resulting fires would cause, so they did not attempt such calculations.

 

[pandamonk]

"Never before or after 911, has any steel building collapsed from fire."

 

[Unfit4Command]

"Never before or after 911, has any steel building collapsed from fire."

I watched part of the 9/11 section of the movie, once the claim that Flight 77 vaporized came up, I quit watching the movie.

Anyways, here are a few examples of steel framed structures fully collapsing or partially collapsing due to fire, along with a bit of information:

"As Frank Brannigan states in his Building Construction for the Fire Service text there are still some misconceptions that steel construction and steel buildings are safe when attacked by fire. This is as far from the truth as you can imagine."
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=148816

Three multi-storey buildings collapsed due to fire after burning less than two hours
http://www.ilo.org/encyclopedia/?doc&nd=857100058&nh=0&ssect=1

The Windsor Tower in Madrid, Spain suffered a major fire in 2005, this resulted in the failure of the steel frame on the upper floors of the building, only the concrete core remained standing.
http://www.arup.com/fire/feature.cfm?pageid=6150

The steel roof of a large exhibition hall quickly failed in a fire.
http://www.chipublib.org/004chicago/disasters/mccormick_fire.html

A toilet paper factory collapsed during a fire, “Intense heat buckled the steel girders holding the roof.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/hereford/worcs/6105942.stm

The steel frame of the Site and Sound Theater in Pennsylvania weakened and partially collapsed due to fire.
http://www.interfire.org/res_file/pdf/Tr-097.pdf

Debunking911.com takes some good excerpts from the report above and adds comments in []

“On the morning of January 28, 1997, in the Lancaster County, Pennsylvania township of Strasburg, a fire caused the collapse of the state-of-the-art, seven year old Sight and Sound Theater and resulted in structural damage to most of the connecting buildings.
The theater was a total loss, valued at over $15 million.

pg 6/74

The theater was built of steel rigid frame construction to allow for the large open space of the auditorium, unobstructed by columns... The interior finish in the auditorium was drywall.

The stage storage area, prop assembly building, and prop maintenance building were protected with a sprayed-on fire resistant coating on all structural steel. The plans called for the coating to meet a two-hour fire resistance assembly rating. The sprayed-on coating, which was susceptible to damage from the movement of theater equipment, was protected by attaching plywood coverings on the columns to a height of eight feet.

The walls of the storage area beneath the stage were layered drywall to provide a two-hour fire protection rating for the mezzanine offices [the WTC used drywall as fire protection in the central core] , and sprayed-on fire-resistant coatings on the structural
steel columns and ceiling bar joists supporting the stage floor.

pg 15/74

The two theater employees told the State Police Fire Investigator that when they first discovered the fire they noticed that the sprayed-on fire proofing had been knocked off the underside of the stage floor bar joists and support steel. The fire proofing was hanging on the wire mesh used to hold the coating to the overhead. The investigation revealed that the construction company's removal of the stage floor covering down to the corrugated decking involved striking the floor hard enough to knock off the sprayed-on protection, exposing the structural steel and bar-joists in the storage area. [The theater's spray-on fireproofing was newer and more modern than at the WTC, The theater was only seven years old. If striking the floor during renovations was enough to dislodge it imagine the impact of a 767]

pg 16/74

Temperatures of 1000° F can cause buckling and temperatures of 1500° F can cause steel to lose strength and collapse. When the heat and hot gases reached the stage ceiling they extended horizontally into the auditorium, causing the roof to fail all the way to the lobby fire wall. The fire also extended horizontally from the stage to the elevated hallway, causing the structural steel to fail and buckle in the prop assembly and prop maintenance buildings

pg 17/74

Once the heat of the fire caused the structural steel to fail in the storage area (aided by the damage to the sprayed-on fire protection during renovation), interior firefighting became too hazardous to continue. The truck crews ventilating the roof noted metal discoloration and buckling steel.

pg. 21/74

The two hour fire resistance-rated assembly in the storage area beneath the stage was damaged during the stage floor renovation, leaving the structural members unprotected from the ensuing fire.

pg. 26/74

Buildings constructed of steel should, in effect, be considered unprotected and capable of collapse from fire in as few as ten minutes. Fire resistant coatings sprayed onto structural steel are susceptible to damage from construction work.

The impact of fire and heat on structural steel members warrant extreme caution by firefighters.

pg. 36/74

Unless the steel members are cooled with high-volume hose streams, the fire's heat can rapidly cause steel to lose its strength and contribute to building collapse.
pg. 37/74
http://www.debunking911.com/firsttime.htm

In 1991, a fire erupted in One Meridian Plaza, though the building suffered no impact damage like any of the collapsed structures on 9/11, firefighters feared that the building may collapse and halted firefighting operations in the building.

“All interior firefighting efforts were halted after almost 11 hours of uninterrupted fire in the building. Consultation with a structural engineer and structural damage observed by units operating in the building led to the belief that there was a possibility of a pancake structural collapse of the fire damaged floors.”
http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/downloads/txt/publications/tr-049.txt

The failure of a single column in the Parker Building fire caused a global collapse of section of the building from floor 20 to the basement. Another column also failed later in the fire causing another local collapse. Also, both the iron and steel structures in the building were warped and weakened due to the fire that commonly exceeded temperatures of 1800 degrees F, and peaked around 2000 degrees.
http://ia310920.us.archive.org/3/items/effectoffirerepo00britrich/effectoffirerepo00britrich.pdf

“Chief Edward Croker of the New York Fire Department had long sought improvements in the building codes and factory laws, because of such early fires as the Parker Building. Three firemen were killed in a massive collapse within this 20-story fireproof building.”
http://www.firehouse.com/magazine/american/disasters.html

Part of the roof of a steel framed building in Virginia collapsed after burning very shortly, once the flames were extinguished, the school was said to be a total loss.
“At 10:47 p.m., ten minutes after being dispatched, fire ground units were notified that the roof of Dogwood Elementary School had collapsed on Side Three of the building.”
http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/downloads/pdf/publications/tr-135.pdf

On June 20th, 2007, a fire broke out in a furniture store and the roof quickly collapsed, killing nine firefighters.
“Capt. Ralph Linderman of the St. Andrews Fire Department said the blaze was the hottest he could recall in three decades of firefighting. "That fire bent steel like a wet noodle," he said...

Charleston Fire Capt. Jake Jenkins said the firefighters were spread out in teams when the roof - a steel truss system - collapsed. Other crews fought to get inside the building and rescue the fallen, but the conditions were too bad, he said.”
http://www.theeagle.com/stories/062007/nation_20070620021.php

A large portion of a steel deck roof collapsed in the fire of 205 West Jefferson Street.
http://www.fallschurchvfd.org/photos/photos.asp?event=42

A highway overpass with steel supports failed and collapsed in an intense fire.
“Engineers said the green steel frame of the I-580 overpass and the bolts holding the frame together began to melt and bend in the intense heat and that movement pulled the roadbed off its supports.”
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/29/BAGVOPHQU46.DTL

In 2005, a ship collided with The Mumbai High North platform causing a fire to breakout resulting in the platform completely collapsing.

“Location: Mumbai offshore, India
Fire Event: 27 July 2005
A vessel collided with the offshore Mumbai High North platform, 160 km west of the Mumbai coast, causing a major fire, completely destroying the platform and resulting in 11 deaths and 11 others missing.
Fire duration = 2 hours
Fire Damage: Complete collapse of the platform
Construction Type: Steel
Fire Resistance: No information available
Function: Oil and natural gas processing platform
Dimensions: 7 storeys”
http://www.mace.manchester.ac.uk/pr...ire/CaseStudy/HistoricFires/Other/default.htm

http://www.softwood.org/AITC_eVersion/EN/p3.htm

 

[Gorgonian]

Ok, from the documentary:

The FBI released a list of the 19 hijackers of 911. At least 6 of these men are still alive and have came forward. However, the list has not been revised...

http://www.911myths.com/html/still_alive.html

At the pentagon, there was no evidence of a plane crash. (they claim that the entire plane vaporized

strawman. There are many photos and videos of plane debris all over the pentagon lawn. A lot of the plane went into the pentagon as well.

They also covered the lawn with dirt and gravel, hiding any forensic evidence.

http://www.911myths.com/html/lawn_covered.html

The films from nearby security cameras, which would have seen the event, were confiscated immediately, and have not been released.

It should not be surprising that they were confiscated. This is what usually happens with possible evidence in a case like this. The "have not been released" part is just flat out incorrect.

Refutation of pancake theory, including talks with the structural engineer(Les Robertson), and construction manager(Frank A. Demartini) of WTCs who say it cope with impact of Boeing 707 hitting at any location

You should read the NIST report and see what the theory of why the towers collapsed actually is. Hint: it is not the pancake theory. This is simply another strawman.

, and could probably sustain multiple impacts.

Probably. They were only hit once. What did he say about getting hit by a plane and having the structural steel heated by fire for an hour after the fireproofing was knocked loose? Hint: guess why there was fireproofing in the first place.

The 47 steel columns will only fail simultaneously if cut, usually at an angle.

Simultaneously is a very precise word.

This is how demolition experts do it, and it is how the columns are shown after collapse.

The cuts you are talking about were made during clean-up. Here is a good explanation http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm

There was also molten steel up to 5 weeks after the collapse. For steel to be molten, it must be, minimum, 500 fahrenheit hotter than jet fuel, which was the main source of heat. There were also sub-basement explosions, apparently, before even the first plane hit.

Molten metal and molten steel are not the same thing. They seem to be used interchangeably a lot. The explosions claim is quite dubious for many reasons (A-explsions does not equal explosives, B-how would someone in the basement know that an event was before the plane hit, etc.)

Scrabblers fail 4 times in one day, to bring down hijacked plane, even with a 100% accuracy before this day.

There is lots more...

I should really get back into Scrabble. I used to play all the time. I don't have the patience anymore.

By the way, your "lots more" is all trivial nonsense like what you have presented here. Fear not.

 

[T.A.M.]

"Never before or after 911, has any steel building collapsed from fire."

panda:

you have over 270 posts on this forum. All the things you are bringing up can be answered in the pages that Gravy has linked to in his signature, or from the web site...

www.911myths.com

Are you asking the questions (if so follow the links) are are you arguing the statements as truth?

the reason I am telling you this, is that ALL of these things have been discussed over and over here, and rather than rehash them, a guiding hand to the proper links is quicker and easier, and less stressful.

TAM