With a cease-fire like this, who needs war?

[a_unique_person]

The Age newspaper - who editors lothe israel in the first place - are not going to provide security for Israelis from Hamas, Al Aqsa, Islamic Jihad, Hizbollah and Fateh. MachsomWatch - the women's human rights group - is not going to provide security for Israelis from Hamas, Al Aqsa, Islamic Jihad, Hizbollah and Fateh. The Palestinian Authority - who's own Interior Minister admits the Palestinian Authority's security forces include many thugs and gangsters - is not going to provide security for Israelis from Hamas, Al Aqsa, Islamic Jihad, Hizbollah and Fateh.

Ergo a_u_p, Israel is the only one left to provide security for Israelis from Hamas, Al Aqsa, Islamic Jihad, Hizbollah and Fateh.

(courtesy of jwr.com)

You have once again proven you make assertions based on no evidence. Read the age and you will find journalists who agree with everything Dubya does and says.

Your constant refrain appears to be that because the Palestinians have problems with law and order, which they do, Israel is under no obligation to behave ethically. I don't believe that stands up.

 

[zenith-nadir]

You have once again proven you make assertions based on no evidence.

The Age is not know for being even-handed in their reporting of the conflict in the middle east...I was born at night a_u_p but I wasn't born last night.

Read the age and you will find journalists who agree with everything Dubya does and says.

"Dubya"?

Your constant refrain appears to be that because the Palestinians have problems with law and order, which they do, Israel is under no obligation to behave ethically. I don't believe that stands up.

It's a constant refrain because it's true. Most IDF soldiers prefer to be under fire than manning checkpoints, the Palestinians hate the checkpoints because they are a great hardship, I agree. But after 80 years of conflict the checkpoints are there because the Palestinians aren't going to weed out the bombers and the gunmen, and the Age newspaper isn't going to weed out the bombers and the gunmen, so the reponsibility falls onto Israel's lap to weed out the Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hizbollah, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades and Fateh bombers and gunmen.

 

[zenith-nadir]

Palestinians Take Over PM's Empty House - June 15, 2005

(Associated Press) - JERUSALEM - Dozens of Palestinian militants raided the vacation home of Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia on Wednesday, shooting in the air and demanding they be given jobs in the security forces, security officials said.

Qureia was not in the home in the West Bank town of Jericho at the time, the officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of repercussions. Although the militants shot in the air, forced their way past two guards and pushed open the door, no injuries or damage was reported.

The gunmen refused to leave. They stayed for about an hour, until security officers persuaded them to leave.

Israel Arrests Suspected Suicide Bombers - June 15, 2005

(Associated Press) - JERUSALEM - Israeli forces have arrested eight Palestinians, including four teenagers suspected of planning suicide bombings in Israel, security officials said Wednesday.

The suspects are affiliated with Fatah, the party of Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, and were based in the West Bank city of Nablus, the officials said on condition of anonymity due to the sensitive nature of the information. They said four of the suspects were under 18, including two who were 15.

One of the young men had already made a "martyr's video" explaining his actions, to be released after the attack, they said, and another admitted to interrogators that he was going to carry out a suicide attack.

Palestinian militant groups have often recruited youngsters to carry out attacks against Israel, taking advantage of their impressionability and hoping their age will allow them to slip through Israeli security checks when they are sent on suicide missions. Two 16-year-olds were the youngest Palestinians to carry out suicide attacks.

Israeli security officials say that despite the truce, they have foiled dozens of planned Palestinian attacks, including suicide bombings.

With a cease-fire like this, who needs war?

 

[Mycroft]

If you don't hear about it, it didn't happen.

AUP,

This thread is supposed to illustrate how the "cease fire" isn't being maintained by many Palestinian-Arab factions.

Is it your contention that because Palestinian-Arabs don't like checkpoints that it's okay for Palestinian-Arabs not to honor the cease fire and continue to kill Jews?

I can't imagine why else you would think a post about checkpoints is on-topic in this thread, but perhaps you can explain it to me.

 

[webfusion]

How do you figure?

*snip*
...Israel is under no obligation to behave ethically.

Of all the nations on this planet, that have to face terror daily, I would place Israel up against any country as an exemplary display of ethical and restrained behavior.

 

[zenith-nadir]

Palestinian rockets hit southern Israeli town- June 16th, 2005

JERUSALEM (AFP) - Two rockets fired by Palestinian militants based in nearby northern Gaza landed in the southern Israeli town of Sderot, hitting a fire engine and the grounds of a college.

A recently installed early warning system was activated allowing residents to take cover, an army spokeswoman told AFP.

The armed wing of Islamic Jihad movement, another radical movement which has its stronghold in Gaza, claimed responsibility for the attack....

With a cease-fire like this, who needs war?

 

[Mycroft]

That link doesn't seem to work, but this one does:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto..._mideast_afp/mideastunrestsderot_050616154625


I notice AUP has declined to repond to any comments directed at him.

 

[zenith-nadir]

I notice AUP has declined to repond to any comments directed at him.

I noticed just about everyone who has been taking the Palestinian side of the debate has abandoned the debate. I hope it is because they realize that I and others are not delegitimizing the Palestinian people or their rights, rather we are delegitimizing the use of terror organizations as foreign policy makers and as symbols of Palestinian nationalism.

The terror organizations are run by islamic fundamentalists who's goal is not a viable Palestinian state but the total destruction of Israel. They will continue on that path even if it destroys the Palestinian Authority and a Palestinian state. Hell, the islamic fundamentalists stormed the vacation home of Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia on Wednesday demanding they be given jobs with the Palestinian Security forces!!!....sound like a great way to impress your potential boss don't it?.....and that is the mindset of these freaks who are ruining it for everyone.

{edited to add}

PA: Israel sells us 'carcinogenic' juice - Jun. 15, 2005

By KHALED ABU TOAMEH AND HERB KEINON - Israel has been flooding the Palestinian market with carcinogenic juice and "suspicious" computers used by its Defense Ministry, the Palestinian Authority claimed Tuesday.

Such allegations, which were common under Yasser Arafat's rule, have resurfaced in recent weeks in the Palestinian media.

The latest charge was made by Dr. Youssef Abu Safiyeh, chairman of the PA's Environment Authority, who told Palestinian legislators in Ramallah that the PA security forces had recently seized a number of shipments from Israel that included canned juice containing a carcinogenic substance.

"These drinks are specifically produced for Palestinian consumers in the Gaza Strip," Abu Safiyeh said.

He also claimed that the Egyptian authorities last March intercepted two Israeli trucks carrying children's toys that included carcinogenic and radioactive substances. The trucks were seized at the Rafah border crossing, he added.

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by zenith-nadir
I noticed just about everyone who has been taking the Palestinian side of the debate has abandoned the debate. I hope it is because they realize that I and others are not delegitimizing the Palestinian people or their rights, rather we are delegitimizing the use of terror organizations as foreign policy makers and as symbols of Palestinian nationalism.

That's a valid point. I can't think of any pro-Israeli on these boards that doesn't want a viable Palestinian-Arab state capable of living in peace with Israel. As a group, we are supportive of Palestinian-Arab nationalistic ambitions, we just recognize the problems in trying to create it with a leadership composed of terrorists.

By contrast, those who seek to whitewash or deny the reality of continued Palestinian-Arab violence during this cease fire are essentially denying the rights of Israelis to live in peace, secure from terrorism.

There is nothing wrong with supporting both Israelis and Palestinian-Arabs on this issue.

 

[zenith-nadir]

PA: Settlers' wild pigs wreak havoc - Jun. 16, 2005

Only days after the Palestinian Authority accused Israel of flooding Palestinian markets with "carcinogenic" juice, the PA's official news agency, Wafa, claimed on Thursday that West Bank villagers were being attacked by wild pigs brought by Jewish settlers.

The agency quoted residents of the village of Hawarah, south of Nablus, as claiming that the wild pigs were brought by settlers in the area.

"These pigs are destroying our agricultural farms and terrorizing women and children," the villagers said.

OMFG....they know that pigs aren't kosher right?.....so what are jewish settlers doing with....uhhmmmm... nevermind

 

[webfusion]

Are you really boared?

This is a story that is exceedingly difficult to confirm --- a population of wild pigs (boars) introduced by the Jewish settlers may very well indeed be on the rampage in the West Bank, however, if the story is true (which I have a suspicion it is) the settlers might have unleashed a pandora's box of trouble by introducing a population of voracious and destructive (non-native) animals into this general area.
http://animal.discovery.com/news/afp/20031013/wildboars.html

• wild boars have such a fast breeding rate that their population can easily triple or quadruple in a single year.

Uh-Oh.

 

[webfusion]

bombs away...

Fascinating, to see the contortions of the Islamic Jihad in explaining why they are persisting in launching ballistic missiles at Israel.

Here is their most recent declaration:
The armed wing of Islamic Jihad movement, another radical movement which has its stronghold in Gaza, claimed responsibility for the attack as a response to Israel's arrest of six of its members in the West Bank since Wednesday night. "This was an answer to the Zionist aggression which is aimed especially at Islamic Jihad and our mudajedeen (holy warriors)."

OK, now let's see, who are these mudajedeen --- ???
Why exactly did the IDF decide to arrest these fellas?
Perhaps it would be best if the IDF just stopped all this foolishness in tracking down active and known terrorists and let these Palestinian maniacs just go ahead and operate unchallenged & unhindered in their evil plans to perpetrate atrocities willy-nilly?

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/588668.html
IDF arrests FOUR (according to some press reports)
Hey, but who's counting???


On the same topic ---
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/588229.html

• Meanwhile, last month, the Israeli Security Forces (Shin Bet) captured 8 Fatah members who were planning to launch a suicide attack (or several coordinated attacks) into Israel's population centers.
  The Shin Bet released for publication on Wednesday that a Fatah cell was nabbed in the vicinity of the West Bank city of Nablus approximately one month ago, shortly before it was to dispatch suicide bomber(s) to Israel.

Hokey-dokey, now, here's the logic of this:
Israel nabs terrorists (Arabic translation: "holy warriors") who are about to commit mass murder. The Palestinians then launch missiles at Israel and put out a press realease saying: "This was an answer to the Zionist aggression"

No laughing dog for this stuff. It is just insane.

=========================
{{{{{{ ETA: This just in from Israel Radio News:
"06:45 Senior Islamic Jihad militant arrested near Nablus (Israel Radio) }}}}}}

 

[Mycroft]

Re: bombs away...

The armed wing of Islamic Jihad movement, another radical movement which has its stronghold in Gaza, claimed responsibility for the attack as a response to Israel's arrest of six of its members in the West Bank since Wednesday night. "This was an answer to the Zionist aggression which is aimed especially at Islamic Jihad and our mudajedeen (holy warriors)."

The problem is that for most people, news from Israel is just background noise. More people killing each other? Nothing new. Why? Oh, they say it's retaliation for something...

Then the media is too lazy to place it in context. Islamic Jihad claims it's a response to something Isreal did, but anyone who's been following it knows they've been launching rockets for weeks now and that explanation makes no sense.

 

[blndrhed]

Palestine is still the issue

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3499.htm

 

[Mycroft]

Your post is off topic.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3499.htm

http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/Pilger_Pilfers_the_Truth.asp

 

[zenith-nadir]

a population of wild pigs (boars) introduced by the Jewish settlers may very well indeed be on the rampage in the West Bank,

And a population of wild pigs (boars) may have been introduced by Palestinian farmers....we'll never know. I just find it funny that zionists are responsible for everything from wild boars to Palestinian terrorism, (known on JREF as "resistance"), to radioactive toys to carcinogenic juice to "suspicious" computers...

Gunmen storm Dahlan's wife's hospital - Jun. 16, 2005

(JP) - Scores of unidentified gunmen in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday night went on the rampage inside a medical center run by Jalilah Dahlan, wife of Palestinian Authority Civil Affairs Minister Muhammad Dahlan, destroying furniture, computers and other equipment.

It's not clear if the attack on the medical center was linked to Muhammad Dahlan, although some Palestinians did not rule out the possibility that the attackers may have wanted to send him a warning.

"This attack reflects the state of anarchy and lawlessness, which endangers the lives of people," said Jalilah Dahlan. "About 70 gunmen raided the hospital, shooting into the air and destroying everything in their way."

The fact that they were carrying arms contradicts statements by PA officials that the fugitives in the city had been disarmed.

Trashing a Palestinian medical center...wow, such brave brave mudajedeen....In case anyone missed it there's not even a ceasefire BETWEEN PALESTINIANS !

 

[webfusion]

pong!

ZN, I liked your spinning globe. What's up with the pong avatar? BTW, you said that "we'll never know" about the source of those crazy pigs, but I'm sure gonna try getting to the bottom of that, using all my contacts in Israel to find out who is responsible (assuming the story is not a pure fabrication). I have a friend in the SPN (society for the protection of nature) who might have some info that sheds light on the story...

Mycroft, nice rebuttal to that garbage by Pilger. I knew about his "duckumentary" (as in: ducking the truth) but you jumped in there with a great posting that puts paid to the whole thing. Right you are --- off-topic.

Meanwhile, just a few hours ago, yet another blatant violation of the cease-fire:
16:25 (Jerusalem clock) Palestinians fire mortar shell at Gush Katif settlement (Army Radio Galei Zahal report)

 

[zenith-nadir]

Re: pong!

ZN, I liked your spinning globe. What's up with the pong avatar?

The globe has been freed from bondage and shall roam the virtual desert for 40 nanoseconds....

BTW, you said that "we'll never know" about the source of those crazy pigs, but I'm sure gonna try getting to the bottom of that, using all my contacts in Israel to find out who is responsible (assuming the story is not a pure fabrication). I have a friend in the SPN (society for the protection of nature) who might have some info that sheds light on the story...

I am actually very curious to hear if it is common for jewish settlers to; A) keep pigs and B) release them to terrorize Palestinians.

Meanwhile, just a few hours ago, yet another blatant violation of the cease-fire: 16:25 (Jerusalem clock) Palestinians fire mortar shell at Gush Katif settlement (Army Radio Galei Zahal report)

If Canada lobbed mortars and rockets at the USA it would be an act of war and a violation of any ceasefire. If France lobbed mortars and rockets at Spain it would be an act of war and a violation of any ceasefire. But somehow Palestinian terrorists lobbing mortars and rockets at Israel is "a period of calm"

 

[webfusion]

From Al-Qaida: just a suggestion -----

If there was ever any doubt of where these guys are coming from, here is the #2 leader of Al-Qaida urging the Palestinians to break the cease-fire totally and continue the jihad. Obviously, there will be plenty of people in Gaza and the West Bank who will more than happy to translate these words into violent deeds:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/589271.html

• Al-Zawahri denounced the U.S. concept of reform and said armed jihad is the only way to bring change in the Arab world.
  "The removal of the Crusader and Jewish invaders won't occur by peaceful demonstrations," he said in a brief clip aired on the pan-Arab network al-Jazeera. "Reform and expelling the invaders from the countries of Islam won't happen except through fighting for God's sake."
  
  Al-Zawahri, who is bin Laden's Egyptian deputy, was shown in the video sitting before a plain backdrop with an automatic weapon leaned next to him.

Meanwhile, the all-powerful United Nations has asked the Palestinian Authority to "do more to ensure all Palestinian factions keep alive a fragile cease-fire and end all violence," a senior UN official told the Security Council on Friday. Good luck with that!

 

[Elind]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/573010.html

I keep reading stories like this comming from Israel. Attacks, attempted attacks, people caught smuggling weapons for an attack...at what point do you decide that a "cease-fire" where one side hasn't ceased firing isn't a cease-fire?

Haven't we already had this discussion? I seem to recall some heated accusations about targetting children just recently.

Some people seemed to think it was never deliberate, just the will of Allah presumably, and therefore justifiable; or was the argument that since the US won't donate them smart weapons they had no choice? I can't remember. Getting confused. Got to sleep.