Will The GOP Pick up Ted Kennedy's Seat?

[Brainster]

Not related to this specific race, but in general...Pundits are saying that numbers of voters are upset that the Democrats have not made everything sweetness and light in one year, and so they are now going to vote for Republican candidates....
Representatives of the very party that created the conditions that they are upset about.

Perhaps my son has a point about intelligence tests for voters....

How could anybody think that liberals are a bunch of elitist snobs?

 

[ProbeX]

ProbeX I'd say that analysis is only accurate if the fallout/damage from the health care bill would be minor. If the GOP believes that it will be a hugely detrimental problem, costing massive amounts of money, or even lives, I think they would want to still stand against it, on principle.

I'm not saying that it will turn out that way. I'm just saying, it's not always so easy as just turn around and walk away and let them hang themselves. They may believe it could be bad for everyone, not just the Democrats. They may be actually looking out for everyone. I know that's hard to accept to some on the left, but I suspect if we looked at some things that were done by the Bush's or Reagan, I'm sure there were Democrats against them on principle; where the idea of letting said thing happen so it would hurt the GOP wasn't even on the table. It was more important to stop the terrible action that was forthcoming.

You make a good point: not everyone in the GOP believes the bill would merely create a minor fallout. While there are nay-sayers who are merely party-line objectors, there are some who honestly believe this bill will somehow be majorly detrimental, although admittedly I'm not sure how. If single payer or even public option were still likely, then I could understand this attitude a little better. Single payer makes me a little nervous too, as a Moderate.

You're right: both sides of the aisle have their party-line objectors. And I find it pretty entertaining to watch Dems accusing Pubs of not being patriotic/ respecting our Dem president, while the Pubs cry about government intrusion, when a few short years ago each party acted just the opposite

 

[ProbeX]

How could anybody think that liberals are a bunch of elitist snobs?

... except that people on the Right often say similarly ridiculous things about the Left (Pot meet kettle / Kettle meet pot). Gotta love party politics

 

[Brainster]

... except that people on the Right often say similarly ridiculous things about the Left (Pot meet kettle / Kettle meet pot). Gotta love party politics

I don't object to the partisanship, just the bit about how the voters are too dumb to be allowed to vote. That smacks of elitism, and you won't find any conservatives suggesting it.

 

[mortimer]

Not related to this specific race, but in general...Pundits are saying that numbers of voters are upset that the Democrats have not made everything sweetness and light in one year, and so they are now going to vote for Republican candidates....
Representatives of the very party that created the conditions that they are upset about.

Perhaps my son has a point about intelligence tests for voters....

One year? The Dems have been in control of Congress for 3 years.

 

[Brainster]

Intrade is now 64-38 Brown. Quite a turnaround in just a couple days.

72-28 now. Don't let the door hit you on the way out, Martha!

 

[theprestige]

Not related to this specific race, but in general...Pundits are saying that numbers of voters are upset that the Democrats have not made everything sweetness and light in one year, and so they are now going to vote for Republican candidates....
Representatives of the very party that created the conditions that they are upset about.

Perhaps my son has a point about intelligence tests for voters....

It's funny, but back in July I didn't hear how long it would take to bring Hope and Change, when Obama was all set to get sweeping health care reform passed before August '09.

I didn't hear a lot about how much higher the unemployment rate was going to go, and for how long, back when Obama's policies were supposed to bring the unemployment rate down by the end of last year.

It's not that voters stupidly believed Obama would fix the world in one short year. It's that Obama stupidly set out, publically, to accomplish more than a year's worth of stuff in one short year. And then made a dog's breakfast of it.

 

[mortimer]

72-28 now. Don't let the door hit you on the way out, Martha!

If I were a betting man, I'd probably take Coakley at those odds.

 

[Just thinking]

However, you're not (as you suggested) ... too wise, no doubt.

 

[mhaze]

Sheeeshh....what to do, what to do...

Me, I like to side with the underdog.....

 

[Puppycow]

72-28 now. Don't let the door hit you on the way out, Martha!

Wow.

Even PPP, a democratic pollster shows a lead for Brown.
The Daily Kos poll is a tie.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...ssachusetts_senate_special_election-1144.html

I really wasn't paying much attention to this race because I thought it was a foregone conclusion. When I finally notice it looks like the dem is about to lose. What did she do? Was it the remark about Curt Schilling?

 

[MattusMaximus]

Paraphrasing this method of thinking and acting:

Yeah, Chumpie, you got it? You gotta git and you gotta pay up for this here health care.

We figgur it's real good for you to pay like we tells you too.

And you know, we got ways, you know.

We got different ways to get it to happen.

Yes, indeed. That's going to make a lot of friends and allies.

Remember the Minnesota Senate race, mhaze? People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

 

[MattusMaximus]

You make a good point: not everyone in the GOP believes the bill would merely create a minor fallout. While there are nay-sayers who are merely party-line objectors, there are some who honestly believe this bill will somehow be majorly detrimental, although admittedly I'm not sure how. If single payer or even public option were still likely, then I could understand this attitude a little better. Single payer makes me a little nervous too, as a Moderate.

You're right: both sides of the aisle have their party-line objectors. And I find it pretty entertaining to watch Dems accusing Pubs of not being patriotic/ respecting our Dem president, while the Pubs cry about government intrusion, when a few short years ago each party acted just the opposite

I think hypocrisy is a requirement for politics

 

[MattusMaximus]

Wow.

Even PPP, a democratic pollster shows a lead for Brown.
The Daily Kos poll is a tie.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...ssachusetts_senate_special_election-1144.html

I really wasn't paying much attention to this race because I thought it was a foregone conclusion. When I finally notice it looks like the dem is about to lose. What did she do? Was it the remark about Curt Schilling?

It seems to me that she got sloppy, assumed that she would be a shoe-in for the Senate seat, and didn't go out to really work for it. Meanwhile, her opponent just busted his ass going all over the state with a populist message. He barnstormed the state, and it wasn't until some polls came out early last week that showed he was gaining on her that she clued in and started to campaign seriously. It seems as if he's had the momentum ever since then.

It'll all come down to turnout tomorrow. I can easily see this thing going the route of the MN Senate race last year - get ready for some more headaches on that front, folks.

I certainly hope that I'm wrong about this, because I'd really like to see the loser accept defeat gracefully, but then... ugh

 

[MattusMaximus]

72-28 now. Don't let the door hit you on the way out, Martha!

Was she ever in?

 

[MattusMaximus]

Not related to this specific race, but in general...Pundits are saying that numbers of voters are upset that the Democrats have not made everything sweetness and light in one year, and so they are now going to vote for Republican candidates....
Representatives of the very party that created the conditions that they are upset about.

Oh, teh irony!

Perhaps my son has a point about intelligence tests for voters....

Oh please, I have to second Brainster's comments. Talk like that only feeds the meme that liberals are "elitists". Knock it off, please.

People are pissed off about the state of things, and I can't blame them - yes it's true that fixing problems like the country has now will take time, and yes I think we're on the way to getting those problems fixed, but it's human nature to be impatient & anxious under these sort of conditions. And when things are like this the party in power is, like it or not, going to get the shaft. It happened to Bush and the GOP after Katrina and the Iraq War dragged on and on and on, and it's happening to the Dems now.

"Whose fault the mess is" hardly matters, as illogical as that sounds. People don't care about the blame game, they care about results and getting things fixed. Any political party in power that forgets that places itself in peril.

What this all shows is nothing inherently good or bad about Republicans or Democrats, though there are those partisans who will spin it one way or the other. All it really shows is that when you're in power, people expect things to get done, and if that doesn't happen... bye, bye.

If the Dems try to point at the GOP with the same message that you've written above, they're screwing themselves. What they need to do is buckle down and govern, take credit for what goes right and take blame for what goes wrong, because they are in charge.

Likewise, if the GOP fools themselves into thinking that these recent election results indicate that they're somehow the best party for fixing the country's problems, they're also screwing themselves. It's easy to bitch that the people in power aren't doing the job, but it's much harder to actually come up with workable solutions.

 

[novice skeptic]

It seems to me that she got sloppy, assumed that she would be a shoe-in for the Senate seat, and didn't go out to really work for it. Meanwhile, her opponent just busted his ass going all over the state with a populist message. He barnstormed the state, and it wasn't until some polls came out early last week that showed he was gaining on her that she clued in and started to campaign seriously. It seems as if he's had the momentum ever since then.

It'll all come down to turnout tomorrow. I can easily see this thing going the route of the MN Senate race last year - get ready for some more headaches on that front, folks.

I certainly hope that I'm wrong about this, because I'd really like to see the loser accept defeat gracefully, but then... ugh

Pretty much it to a T. She refused to do interviews. He appeared on every radio station on the dial every day, including sport radio several times. He was on the top afternoon drive time talk station pretty much every day.

Also, he called for debates and her camp tried to get out of them. Their plan was: just don't do anything stupid and this is an easy win. She did agree to a couple of debates but wanted the 3rd libertarian party candidate (whose name is Kennedy) there too, thinking that he'd pull votes from Brown's right.

She came off as arrogant, an insider, machine politician. He came off as "new" (even though he's been in the state legislature awhile) and a regular guy.

In her defense, she really is no worse a candidate than the state has had for any number of offices that still get elected despite their crappiness. I think this was just a perfect storm for Brown. A not very good Dem candidate, the state changing the rules to rig the game for an interim senator (after rigging it the other way when a Repub governor was in charge), fear of Obama care, jitters about the economy, etc.

She ran a horrible campaign, but it would be a mistake for Dems to not learn other lessons if things go wrong for them tomorrow.

 

[MattusMaximus]

In her defense, she really is no worse a candidate than the state has had for any number of offices that still get elected despite their crappiness. I think this was just a perfect storm for Brown. A not very good Dem candidate, the state changing the rules to rig the game for an interim senator (after rigging it the other way when a Repub governor was in charge), fear of Obama care, jitters about the economy, etc.

Agreed, on that front I think the GOP got really lucky here. The thing is it seems they had the presence of mind to see the opportunity and go for it.

She ran a horrible campaign, but it would be a mistake for Dems to not learn other lessons if things go wrong for them tomorrow.

Exactly. And on that note I think it'd be a mistake for the GOP to necessarily make this out to be bigger than it really is. I mean, it's big in terms of the makeup of the Senate, but to start assuming that people are just going to be falling in love with the GOP now... did I mention hubris somewhere upthread?

 

[corplinx]

A rational person with a modicum of human decency, should just write in a vote for Obama or Ted Kennedy if they wish to vote but don't wish to vote for Brown.

Coakley tried to keep innocent people in prison for woo notions.

Btw, "Help Democratic GOTV in Massachusetts!" and the link is http://my.barackobama.com/CoakleyN2N ??? Skeptical Teacher?

 

[Puppycow]

If Brown is elected, I'm sure he'll be certified with the same alacrity that Al Franken was.

ETA: Whoever it is, it would normally take a while to certify the election anyway, right? Senators elected in early November take office in late January normally, so it takes a couple months anyway. The health care vote would presumably be over by then.