What we mean when we talk about racism

[psionl0]

Except that the excuse for the girl is that she didn't realise (!) that it was a racial insult. This means that presumably she'd seen other people use it at Goodes. The alternative is that she'd see other people of Aboriginal descent being called apes and decided that Goodes was an appropriate target.

You are still making this up and it doesn't address a single word in the post that you quoted.

And if you want a fairy story, how about believing that a convicted paedophile is innocent, when there are multiple other accusations against him? And who happens to have been instrumental in covering up abuse by other Catholic clergy.

That strawman argument belongs in a different thread.

 

[sphenisc]

Keep digging, you're doing great! Who would have known that well known and long used racist invectives were racist? It's obviously the sensitivity of the people on the receiving end of the racial slurs that's the problem! [/sarcasm]

Well obviously it's the sensitivity of the people on the receiving end that's the problem. If they'd just spend more time on the ISF Science subforum they know the correct response is "Yes, I'm an ape! I share a common ancestor with chimps, gorillas and further back, orang-utans*. Notice how I possess, like them, an opposable thumb which can be wrapped across the other closed fingers thusly. And my retention of features relating to arboreality gives me the ability raise my forelimb to shoulder height and through the precisely controlled use of triceps and biceps bring my forementioned hand arrangement in to rapid contact with your teeth, which due to a million years or so of cooking are somewhat less robust than your other ape relatives'.
You might want to get that looked at by some other ape with binocular vision and a degree in dentistry."

But no, that never happens...instead the response is to based on psychosocial dynamics relating to esteem based on social status displays in populations that have grown way beyond their Dunbar number. If we weren't apes no-one would give a ****.

*Yes, I missed out gibbons. That's cos I ******* hate gibbons.

 

[jimbob]

You are still making this up and it doesn't address a single word in the post that you quoted.


That strawman argument belongs in a different thread.

I am not making up the fact that the girl was shouting racist insults. That didn't happen in a vacuum. It is not a fairy story to suggest that she either was actually aware it was a racial insult so she used it as intended, or that she'd heard others using it.

I was pointing out that your ideas of what is unlikely seem somewhat skewed, based on your assessments as to the guilt of a convicted paedophile with multiple other accusations that haven't been tested in court.

 

[psionl0]

It is not a fairy story to suggest that she either was actually aware it was a racial insult so she used it as intended, or that she'd heard others using it.

A fairy story is exactly what this is. It is pure speculation without an iota of evidence to back it up.

I was pointing out that your ideas of what is unlikely seem somewhat skewed, based on your assessments as to the guilt of a convicted paedophile with multiple other accusations that haven't been tested in court.

If you want to discuss this then do so in the proper thread. I have no intention of getting pinged for a rule 11 violation.

 

[wareyin]

A fairy story is exactly what this is. It is pure speculation without an iota of evidence to back it up.

The idea that a 13 year old shouting racist slurs either knows what they mean, or heard others using them is a fairy tale with no evidence?

Do you ever step back and read your posts before you post them? Did this actually seem like a reasonable position to take?

 

[jimbob]

It is not a fairy story to suggest that she either was actually aware it was a racial insult so she used it as intended, or that she'd heard others using it.

A fairy story is exactly what this is. It is pure speculation without an iota of evidence to back it up.

Well there is the evidence that she was using racist chants.

I'm morbidly intrigued as to your explanation as to why she chose a racist chant against a minority player if she had neither heard others chant at that player (the "she wasn't a racist option") or had heard such language directed at other non-white people (the "I'm really struggling to see how innocently making racist insults at non-whites isn't racist option").

But presumably, as neither of those have sufficient evidence for you, that means you have a more plausible scenario. Please state what it is. All I need is something that is more plausible than those two options.

 

[dann]

What Disney record was that? The only references I've ever heard about were Song of the South and the crows in Dumbo.

I didn't find my own Disney record, but I found a list of them online: Anders And Plader = Donald Duck Records.
They were produced by Metronome Records, a Danish company, from 1955 to 1957.
You have to scroll down a bit to get to the record I told you about, the one with the African cannibals: "Mickey og Fedtmule I Afrika" = Mickey and Goofy in Africa. It's record #9. I think I also had #23, Goofy as Firefighter, which wasn't racist at all. I didn't have #31, Goofy and the Indians, which may have been as racist as the one with the cannibals!

 

[luchog]

A fairy story is exactly what this is. It is pure speculation without an iota of evidence to back it up.

Have to agree. I know when I'm out at a match with me mates, we always yell out random words at the opposing team, shows them we mean business. Like last weekend, when our chants of "Tardigrade! Tardigrade! Tardigrade!" had them all fired up, let me tell ya.

Of course, there was that time that Jimmy nearly started a set to what with calling their big, simian-looking goalie a Pre-Raphaelite to his face, but we were able to calm the ape-man down by explaining that Jimmy wasn't too sure what the word meant, only that it sounded suitably insulting, and we all had a good chuckle afterwards.

 

[johnny karate]

Don't strain yourself. Cliff notes version: black and white guys using the n-word casually, in what appears to be an entirely non-racist way. That movie is well-known enough to be a commonly recognized example.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the N-word is used in Pulp Fiction by the white characters, which is problematic for your entire argument.

But seriously: add some melanin to your social group. You might be surprised that the White people in the twittersphere have it wrong.

Your claims to have unique insight into black culture is just a slightly more sophisticated version of the Some of My Best Friends Are Black argument, and of course reeks of the typical internet bragging used by people trying to claim authority on a subject with dubious anecdotal evidence.

 

[The Norseman]

Show us the source that you read that from.


Show us the source that you read that from.

Perhaps after you've answered my questions first.

 

[Minoosh]

OK, so here's another question. In another thread a poster has said anyone who supports Trump is racist. But what if you had some other reason entirely to vote for Trump? Say you want to outlaw abortion and only will vote for candidates that promise to move in this direction. But you're also so far down on the racism scale you're almost colorblind, or maybe you are of minority heritage yourself. Are you still a racist?

 

[psionl0]

Well there is the evidence that she was using racist chants.

I'm morbidly intrigued as to your explanation as to why she chose a racist chant against a minority player if she had neither heard others chant at that player (the "she wasn't a racist option") or had heard such language directed at other non-white people (the "I'm really struggling to see how innocently making racist insults at non-whites isn't racist option").

But presumably, as neither of those have sufficient evidence for you, that means you have a more plausible scenario. Please state what it is. All I need is something that is more plausible than those two options.

OK you got me. I can't hide the truth any more.

Yes, there is a reason why she chose that particular word. She had been attending racial vilification school for many years where she learned the most hurtful ways to deal with those who's skin colour was wrong. Prior to attending the match in question, she had a meeting with family, friends and others from the school where after much discussion, a short list of offensive words was prepared. Just prior to the Sydney Swans running on to the field, she and the others in her group held a vote and decided that "ape" would be the best word to use.

After all, spectators don't just yell the first thing that comes to mind in the heat of a game. It takes a life time of intense training to become an Australian Yobbo.

 

[psionl0]

Perhaps after you've answered my questions first.

What questions? All you did was post a couple of false statements. It's no wonder you can't quote a source.

 

[The Norseman]

What questions? All you did was post a couple of false statements. It's no wonder you can't quote a source.

I thought that you were arguing in good faith. I see that your obnoxious bombast isn't worth it. Have a day!

 

[psionl0]

 

[dann]

OK, so here's another question. In another thread a poster has said anyone who supports Trump is racist. But what if you had some other reason entirely to vote for Trump? Say you want to outlaw abortion and only will vote for candidates that promise to move in this direction. But you're also so far down on the racism scale you're almost colorblind, or maybe you are of minority heritage yourself. Are you still a racist?

'But what if you had some other reason entirely to vote for Hitler? Say you are maniacally obsessed with annexing the Sudetenland and only will vote for candidates that promise to move in this direction. But you're also so far down on the racism scale you can't see any difference between alleged Aryans and Jews, or maybe you are of minority heritage yourself. Are you still a racist?'


No, you are not a racist, but you are extremely good at ignoring racism.
A better question would be: 'Are you a real person? Do you actually exist or are you entirely imaginary, made up by somebody to prove some kind of point?'

 

[Kakstaj]

To me, the problem with calling someone an ape is if they do not look like an ape. If they do look like an ape, then I see no fuss. Why would I support a lie to appease the feelings of sensitive individuals? Why must social enforcers command me to lie?

 

[jimbob]

OK you got me. I can't hide the truth any more.

Yes, there is a reason why she chose that particular word. She had been attending racial vilification school for many years where she learned the most hurtful ways to deal with those who's skin colour was wrong. Prior to attending the match in question, she had a meeting with family, friends and others from the school where after much discussion, a short list of offensive words was prepared. Just prior to the Sydney Swans running on to the field, she and the others in her group held a vote and decided that "ape" would be the best word to use.

After all, spectators don't just yell the first thing that comes to mind in the heat of a game. It takes a life time of intense training to become an Australian Yobbo.

Do you really want to pick this hill to die on?

Strip out the sarcasm, and yes, she picked up that type of insult somewhere. Either from friends and family, and/or the football crowd.

Attempted mockery of the above position only works if you present a more plausible alternative. So far you have sarcastically agreed that my position is likely, which as you haven't given anything else, is telling.

 

[Vixen]

I didn't find my own Disney record, but I found a list of them online: Anders And Plader = Donald Duck Records.
They were produced by Metronome Records, a Danish company, from 1955 to 1957.
You have to scroll down a bit to get to the record I told you about, the one with the African cannibals: "Mickey og Fedtmule I Afrika" = Mickey and Goofy in Africa. It's record #9. I think I also had #23, Goofy as Firefighter, which wasn't racist at all. I didn't have #31, Goofy and the Indians, which may have been as racist as the one with the cannibals!

Here in Finland there was some mythical group known as the hottentotti and a card game known as Musta Pekka =['Black Peter']. However, there wasn't any sense of race hate.

 

[jimbob]

OK, so here's another question. In another thread a poster has said anyone who supports Trump is racist. But what if you had some other reason entirely to vote for Trump? Say you want to outlaw abortion and only will vote for candidates that promise to move in this direction. But you're also so far down on the racism scale you're almost colorblind, or maybe you are of minority heritage yourself. Are you still a racist?

That is why I have been very careful to say that one might not be racist, but are very happy having racist fellow travellers and don't think racist policies are a problem.
Anyone who says that the current Republican party aligns more with their views than the Democratic party, at best doesn't care about racist policies, or more likely, supports them.


It would be ridiculous to say of a hypothetical candidate,
"I like their transport policy, but do have a slight issue with their stance in favour of human sacrifice"

The racism is the, um, elephant in the polling booth.