What we mean when we talk about racism

[smartcooky]

You're the one hijacking a thread about racism demanding we talk about one anecdotal story of one person being called a racist because... hey who doesn't find themselves in the middle of an angry mob chanting racist slurs through no fault of their own every once in a while.

You're standing in the Arctic thrusting your hand into the only campfire for miles in any direction screaming about how we need to do more to prevent burns and will not talk about how anybody else is cold until we do.

Gold.... just pure gold!

 

[psionl0]

The commentators tend to agree that Goodes got far more booing aimed at him after this incident, and that his calling out a racist insult was the main reason for this.

At last! Somebody willing to talk about the actual facts instead of lying and saying that the crowd wasn't called racist just for booing.

You're the one hijacking a thread about racism demanding we talk about one anecdotal story of one person being called a racist because... hey who doesn't find themselves in the middle of an angry mob chanting racist slurs through no fault of their own every once in a while.

Case in point. The facts aren't interesting enough so let's make up some different facts.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Case in point. The facts aren't interesting enough so let's make up some different facts.

The only fact I'm interested in is why you seem to think talking one "over use of racism" incident to death is so goddamn bloody necessary or what it changes.

What point are you making? Fine this entire crowd was perfectly innocent of racism and evil librul lefties called them racist for no reason, drug them into the middle of the field at half time, gave them all blood eagles and danced around in their entrails laughing gleefully. Fine, whatever.

WHAT DOES THAT PROVE ABOUT RACISM? Answer the question.

 

[ponderingturtle]

No, I'm not lying to myself.

Yes you are

Why do you think I am?

Lots of studies that show people make up their mind and the come up with a reason for it, the bounty of evidence of unconscious bias being a real thing and influencing people with out their realizing it and so forth.

You are no perfect logical machine or vulcan and pretending otherwise isn't helpful.

 

[ponderingturtle]

There are some differences in those things. Not everything that is mean and hurts feelings is equal. Racism has been used to justify murder, genocide, slavery, and countless atrocities and injustices. Fat-shaming hasn't exactly had quite the same impact, historically or in current society. Hence calling someone fat may be mean but it's hardly on the level of calling them a [insert racial slur of choice].

Though of course it still has quite a death count when doctors care more about your weight than about the actual symptoms you have and choose to focus on that.

 

[ponderingturtle]

OK, so here's another question. In another thread a poster has said anyone who supports Trump is racist. But what if you had some other reason entirely to vote for Trump? Say you want to outlaw abortion and only will vote for candidates that promise to move in this direction. But you're also so far down on the racism scale you're almost colorblind, or maybe you are of minority heritage yourself. Are you still a racist?

Exactly like we treat all nazis as if they were bad people, but many of them were there for the politics not the racism and we need to recognise that they are fine people. Nazi party membership should not be seen as something to be ashamed of or anything like that just because of some bad elements in the leadership.

 

[wareyin]

At last! Somebody willing to talk about the actual facts instead of lying and saying that the crowd wasn't called racist just for booing.


Case in point. The facts aren't interesting enough so let's make up some different facts.

Speaking of making up facts to support your claim, you know you haven't supported the hilited, right? You've presented facts about the case which show racism in the crowd, which actually undermines your claim.

 

[jimbob]

The commentators tend to agree that Goodes got far more booing aimed at him after this incident, and that his calling out a racist insult was the main reason for this.

At last! Somebody willing to talk about the actual facts instead of lying and saying that the crowd wasn't called racist just for booing.

You're the one hijacking a thread about racism demanding we talk about one anecdotal story of one person being called a racist because... hey who doesn't find themselves in the middle of an angry mob chanting racist slurs through no fault of their own every once in a while.

Case in point. The facts aren't interesting enough so let's make up some different facts.

The highlighted. Goodes called out an incident of racial insults. He was then subjected to far more racist insults and booing. I'm willing to accept that maybe some of those booing him weren't intending it to be racist, but again, they were happy joining in on the side of those doing the racist insulting, so it's a distinction without a difference.

You're the one hijacking a thread about racism demanding we talk about one anecdotal story of one person being called a racist because... hey who doesn't find themselves in the middle of an angry mob chanting racist slurs through no fault of their own every once in a while.

You're standing in the Arctic thrusting your hand into the only campfire for miles in any direction screaming about how we need to do more to prevent burns and will not talk about how anybody else is cold until we do.

To make the analogy more accurate, it would be a campfire that had gone out and had frost forming on it.

 

[psionl0]

Speaking of making up facts to support your claim, you know you haven't supported the hilited, right? You've presented facts about the case which show racism in the crowd, which actually undermines your claim.

Are you still trying to say that it wasn't just booing? Get real!

This has been the subject of discussion for years. In fact, in July this year, Channel 10 ran a documentary called "The Final Quarter". You can see a review of this documentary at https://junkee.com/final-quarter-adam-goodes-doco/214569. If you can get access to 10play where you are, you can see a "sneak preview" of this documentary at https://10play.com.au/the-final-quarter which includes footage of the crowds booing at actual games.

If that doesn't satisfy you then google "Goodes booed" and you will find lots of other discussions about this. In not one of these web sites will you find the claim that the crowds were not just booing.

 

[wareyin]

Are you still trying to say that it wasn't just booing? Get real!

I assure you that I am agreeing with your original assessment, of which the 13 year old yelling racial insults was an integral part of the story. This, as you stated, is more than just booing.

I'm adding to that my experiences in stadiums and knowledge of fanbases in which a minority player (or coach) is seen to be "uppity". Whether it's being an anti-racism activist like Goodes, anti-police brutality like Kaepernick, or what have you, there is always more than just booing.

This has been the subject of discussion for years. In fact, in July this year, Channel 10 ran a documentary called "The Final Quarter". You can see a review of this documentary at https://junkee.com/final-quarter-adam-goodes-doco/214569. If you can get access to 10play where you are, you can see a "sneak preview" of this documentary at https://10play.com.au/the-final-quarter which includes footage of the crowds booing at actual games.

If that doesn't satisfy you then google "Goodes booed" and you will find lots of other discussions about this. In not one of these web sites will you find the claim that the crowds were not just booing.

Did you even read past the headline of your own link? He was booed for daring to be a proud Adnyamathanha and Narungga man. That's clearly “a painful reminder of the racism beating at the heart of Australia”, also from your link.

Do you ever get tired of disproving your own claims?

eta: Your article did quote a commentator known for wearing blackface (to mock another minority player known for his anti-racist stance) who claimed the booing wasn't racist, so you do have support from someone happy to commit racist acts on tv. I bet he also claimed his blackface act wasn't racist either?

 

[psionl0]

I'm adding to that my experiences in stadiums and knowledge of fanbases in which a minority player (or coach) is seen to be "uppity". Whether it's being an anti-racism activist like Goodes, anti-police brutality like Kaepernick, or what have you, there is always more than just booing.

Is this some sort of Custer's last stand? The reported facts don't say that the crowd did other than boo Goodes so you claim that your "experience" trumps the reported facts?

Did you even read past the headline of your own link? He was booed for daring to be a proud Adnyamathanha and Narungga man.

Exactly. He was booed. He wasn't booed and subject to racist taunts.

The reasons why have been discussed for years.

 

[jimbob]

Is this some sort of Custer's last stand? The reported facts don't say that the crowd did other than boo Goodes so you claim that your "experience" trumps the reported facts?


Exactly. He was booed. He wasn't booed and subject to racist taunts.

The reasons why have been discussed for years.

And the booing wasn't racist? It was just a coincidence that it got a lot worse after he complained about racist insults.

The AFL apologised to him and it was a very full apology, fully accepting that the booing was racially motivated and that they should have dealt with it.

Who is the one talking about fairy stories?

 

[mgidm86]

I may be buzzed now but I can tell you this with utter certainty: this is one idiotic thread.

 

[psionl0]

And the booing wasn't racist?

That was the claim. Anybody booing Goodes is a racist. (Why did it take so long to get back to this?)

Any number of arguments can be made to justify the booing or to justify calling booers "racist" but it is clearly because of Goodes race that the racist card is being played.

 

[wareyin]

That was the claim. Anybody booing Goodes is a racist. (Why did it take so long to get back to this?)

No, the claim was not that "anybody" booing Goode's was racist, no more than anyone made the claim here that the crowd egged the 13 year old girl into racial taunting of Goode's. You don't seem to understand your example very much.

The claim that the racially motivated booing (at least so far all your sources agree that it was racially motivated despite your claims otherwise) was racist.

Any number of arguments can be made to justify the booing or to justify calling booers "racist" but it is clearly because of Goodes race that the racist card is being played.

The racist booing is because of an anti-racism minority activist, and thus is clearly not racist? I don't think this tack is going to work better for you than the previous pretences that nobody knew about "ape" as a racial slur.

 

[wareyin]

Is this some sort of Custer's last stand? The reported facts don't say that the crowd did other than boo Goodes so you claim that your "experience" trumps the reported facts?


Exactly. He was booed. He wasn't booed and subject to racist taunts.

The reasons why have been discussed for years.

I don't know if it's your Little Bighorn, but you yourself provided evidence that the booing included racial taunting. Remember the 13 year old girl yelling along with the crowd? The one who had no idea that the word she repeated was a racial taunt?

 

[psionl0]

Remember the 13 year old girl yelling along with the crowd?

AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!

 

[wareyin]

AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!

I get it. It's frustrating when your own example disproves your claim. This is why we called theprestige on this claim. You guys want to pretend that people are called racist for merely disagreeing with someone of another color, but every single instance you can find demonstrates racist actions in addition to disagreement. You can't handwave away the racial taunts that were so integral to this situation that even you brought them up while claiming they weren't there.

 

[psionl0]

I get it.

No you don't. This is way too complicated for you. Discuss your fantasies with somebody else.

 

[wareyin]

No you don't. This is way too complicated for you. Discuss your fantasies with somebody else.

I'm not discussing my fantasies. I'm discussing your example, which proves your claim wrong.

Do you have a better example? Some sort of "people accused of being racist for simple disagreement" that doesn't include yelling racial insults and blackface wearing defenders?