What is wrong with what Steorn is doing?

They have been nice enough to create a presentation of the areas an unlimited source of energy could be used. Just as well they said such areas as public transport, otherwise people might not have thought to use it there.

http://www.steorn.net/media/downloads/steorn_potential_uses.pdf

I'm sure they must have forgotten a few. How about space craft, the moon base? Amusement Parks? Don't want to forget them. Hospitals, they might be able to use an endless supply of power. Submarines? Now that would be perfect. Blimps. The list goes on.
 
They have been nice enough to create a presentation of the areas an unlimited source of energy could be used. Just as well they said such areas as public transport, otherwise people might not have thought to use it there.

http://www.steorn.net/media/downloads/steorn_potential_uses.pdf

I'm sure they must have forgotten a few. How about space craft, the moon base? Amusement Parks? Don't want to forget them. Hospitals, they might be able to use an endless supply of power. Submarines? Now that would be perfect. Blimps. The list goes on.

Or they could hybrid the thing with the proposal of one of their top cheerleaders (it's a "he").... Gaby DeWilde, of the Nlds, the SailTrain. http://gabydewilde.googlepages.com/sailtrain

The discussion page is lovely. Maybe their PMM inventor is in this group of posters......

http://groups-beta.google.com/group...read/thread/cb8fb11d0b6b27c7/c6d79627cd54bc3b
 
The PMM guy - it is a "wind-up". He's also claimed that Philips is Steorn's manufacturing partner. He likes the attention I think.

Anyway the Steorn forum is an interesting study in "internet sociology". No real news for months so gradually degenerating into more wierd stuff - forbidden archeology, ufos, conspiracies. Fascinating that "believers" have more than one delusion!
 
a1trips

The PMM guy - it is a "wind-up". He's also claimed that Philips is Steorn's manufacturing partner. He likes the attention I think.

Anyway the Steorn forum is an interesting study in "internet sociology". No real news for months so gradually degenerating into more wierd stuff - forbidden archeology, ufos, conspiracies. Fascinating that "believers" have more than one delusion!

Yeah A1trips one said he would do the Randi challenge, but word are cheap, and this got him his 15 minutes. I have NO DOUBT at all he is lying thu his teeth.

The funny things is that the very few skeptics left are being banned one after the other, although it might be purely coincidental. BUT seeing how other scam/hoax/OU purveyor at a point or another try to silent dissent, I suspect (but cannot prove) a darker goal.

You can't imagine the sort of crap which pass as insightful in those forum.
Their perpetuum mobilum thread has passed waaaay beyond our patterson grimli thread in absurdity and length (mostly due to some "omnibus" guy trolling people around into answering him. he is very good at it). Most believer are on the hysterical side, with the classical flaw associated with deep belief ("X is great ! I believe it is true !", "you are close minded !!", "you are blind" "you stop progress." "You have an agenda and are paid by big oil/nergy concern"). Except a few which tried to maintain some physic standard of truth, and explain to believer the error of their ways, the physic professed on those forum (and Chemistry) is poor, below the level of what is taught to my 9 year old niece. And as already said above, you have the usual scam there too (Lutec, Denis lee, Mark Golde, Water car....) and the usual conspiracy theory.

Actually it remind me a lot of the 9/11 Nutter forum. My only reason now to go there is an egoistical and terribly evil one, similar to watching a train wreck : I am just freaking happy and relieved I do not belong to them (and can even mock them).

BTW if you are asking, I am (was) Quanten on the Steorn Forum.
 
Not a thing to report from the SteornFront.
They had their demo at the gallery on the 12th, causing little or no reaction in the press, and a couple of totally uninformative threads on their forum from believers who visited.
It's getting quiet over there. The believers far outnumber the skeptics, as is to be expected, but with the paucity of actual "news", they're devolving into "Last Poster Wins" threads......
 
December is not an easy month for breaking news. With Steorn preparing for a big splash, they will wait till the Xmas Warfare and YearEndMassacres calm down.

Steorn knows they got nothing, so they mustn't compete with anything. After all, they make the rules.
 
Every time I tune into "As The Steorn Turns", I have to feel the T'ai Chi is truly prophetic. The thread title keeps coming to mind with each new non-development. What is wrong with what Steorn is doing? What's not wrong... from a scientific perspective? (From a marketing perspective, it's sheer genius, as Gruz... points out.)

I'm on the WRONG side of the cable break in Taiwan, so I can't get all the bells and whistles working on some sites. I can't use text editor or quote wraps, here so excuse the "cosmetics" of this post.

Here's the link to the below comments (explanation immediately follows):
http://www.steorn.net/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=34891&page=9


QUOTE
Steorn CommentTime3 days ago permalinkquote
Folks,

Many thanks for all the input, it has been very useful. We will be announcing how we intend to get this to market on 11th Jan.

Thanks again,

Sean
CLOSE QUOTE

7 days ago, Sean posted asking forumites for ideas on how to get his products to market. Four days later he posted the above, stating that they would be announcing on Jan 11th. That would seem to me as though he already knew exactly what they were going to do, but that he wanted to throw out some more bait to the faithful. To just read and analyze the four hundred ideas offered would've taken longer than that! It's holiday week in Dublin, and the lads are known to stop for a pint or two, occasionally (per their own words), so it's not like they sat there analyzing ideas for four days!

I don't suppose I need to add (but I will) that this is long before the scientific jury has published any results.
 
Well, he wanted ideas about how to get his product to market, and evidently he's taking Kris Kristofferson's advice, "Nothing ain't worth nothin' if it ain't free."

Here's the grand marketing plan: Give It Away.

Either,
A) They've got nothing and they know it.
B) He's Martin Luther Effing Gandhi.
or maybe
C) I'm an idiot, they've got the greatest invention in the history of mankind, and we'll all be gliding to work on free energy very soon, watching the evil oil cartels go broke.

Steorn announces plans for widespread deployment of its free energy technology post-validation

Dublin, 11th January 2007: Steorn, the Irish technology development company, has today announced that its free energy technology will be made widely available to the development community immediately after the independent scientific validation process that is currently underway.

Under the terms of a modified general purpose licence and for a nominal fee, Steorn's intellectual property will be made available concurrently to all interested parties, from individual enthusiasts to larger research organisations. Steorn is taking this bold move to accelerate the deployment and acceptance of its technology for both humanitarian and commercial products.

Steorn's technology is based on the interaction of magnetic fields and allows the production of clean, free and constant energy. The technology can be applied to virtually all devices requiring energy, from cellular phones to cars.

Steorn placed an advertisement in The Economist in August 2006 to attract the attention of the world's leading scientists working in the field of experimental physics. It has now completed the selection of its jury of scientists who have embarked on the testing of the technology prior to publishing their results worldwide.

Sean McCarthy, CEO of Steorn, commented: "We have experienced enormous levels of interest in our free energy technology from the product development community.

"Experience tells us that opening up access to technology to all interested parties via the internet allows for rapid third party development. We believe that our technology can have a profound impact on people's lives and are confident that the delivery of our intellectual property via this type of online development and engineering support environment will lead to the rapid deployment of all kinds of different products."

When? Well, after the publishing of the results.
How much is "nominal"?

I'm beginning to suspect they have some kind of marginal OU result, and rather than admit that it's a possible anomaly, want to throw it out to the world and hope that this generation's Buckminster Fuller or Tesla can find a way to make the dog hunt. I cannot really believe they have anything positive, or they would not now be offering (someday, mind you) to put this knowledge in the public domain, as it were.
 
Nah, that's not "free", that's "nominal fee".

The gamble is that, as it's so clearly bonkers no single investor will pay a large sum for the information, many people (thousands? millions?) will pay the "nominal fee" for it out of curiosity's sake.

This is tantamount to an admission that what they've developed isn't actually worth anything to anyone other than some gullible laymen on the Internet.
 
Nah, that's not "free", that's "nominal fee".

The gamble is that, as it's so clearly bonkers no single investor will pay a large sum for the information, many people (thousands? millions?) will pay the "nominal fee" for it out of curiosity's sake.

This is tantamount to an admission that what they've developed isn't actually worth anything to anyone other than some gullible laymen on the Internet.

C,mon. This was the plan from the very beginning. It's the classic "looking for investors" scam in a fresh sheepskin.
 
Dublin, 11th January 2007: Steorn, the Irish technology development company, has today announced that its free energy technology will be made widely available to the development community immediately after the independent scientific validation process that is currently underway.
It's almost as if they already know what the "jury" is going to say.
 
I'm beginning to suspect they have some kind of marginal OU result, and rather than admit that it's a possible anomaly, want to throw it out to the world and hope that this generation's Buckminster Fuller or Tesla can find a way to make the dog hunt.
According to this, they've claimed 285% for a working machine. Hardly marginal.
 
I know I'm a new poster, so being skeptical, you'll probably be skeptical about what I have to say, but that's alright, I'm just interested in a lively discussion.

I like what steorn is doing, while some of you are very skeptical and are just hoping that the shoe will drop, I'm actually taking the "lets see" approach here.

The reason being is that from my point of view, steorn is doing a lot of things right, both in the PR department and in the Business department.

What I mean by this is that they do try to interact on some level with the audience, they invited certain people on the inside and exposed them to certain level of information, sure nothing real, but it shows a level of transparency you wouldn't quite expect from fraudsters, so if you're dealing with frauds (on the PR side), they're on a much higher level than previously witnessed in this field.

What's interesting to me is the money they are spending. The full page ad in the economist is expensive, we're not talking small change here. The money they spent on patents is also quite big, their office/lab sizes are big and they have let people walk through them and see the equipment (without seeing how it works of course, but just the size/hardware they've saw is no small change).

So, on the one hand they're spending a lot of money on this, they do have some back story (they didn't come out of nowhere) in technology and they are not just begging for investors left and right like all the other previous shams.

Some of you replied that they will be going for small investors as no serious company will invest in this (as it's not a really proven technology). But the thing is, it's not that easy getting that much money from small investors when everything is internet based and unproven. And they did mention that they will be giving the technology away (for free) for certain 3rd world projects, which can be a false claim, but again, it doesn't really match well with the fraud mind-think to me.

If they are frauds, they're the best ever in the OU field, putting to shame all previous fraudsters with their level of detail and personal financial expenses.

I'm actually positive on this, even if it comes out as nothing, at least it raised some discussion about alternative energy means, oil is the current poison of the world. The world would be a lot safer place if we had an easy alternative mean of creating energy.
 
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I know I'm a new poster, so being skeptical, you'll probably be skeptical about what I have to say, but that's alright, I'm just interested in a lively discussion.

Being sceptical about what you are going to say means looking for the evidence you are going to provide for what you are going to say.

I like what steorn is doing, while some of you are very skeptical and are just hoping that the shoe will drop, I'm actually taking the "lets see" approach here.

That's okay but, in the mean time, they have already done some things that can be criticised and which should make you suspicious of their intentions.

The reason being is that from my point of view, steorn is doing a lot of things right, both in the PR department and in the Business department.

What about in the science department?

What I mean by this is that they do try to interact on some level with the audience, they invited certain people on the inside and exposed them to certain level of information, sure nothing real, but it shows a level of transparency you wouldn't quite expect from fraudsters, so if you're dealing with frauds (on the PR side), they're on a much higher level than previously witnessed in this field.

And is this the way a scientific discovery should be handled in your opinion? What do you think of peer review, for instance?

What's interesting to me is the money they are spending. The full page ad in the economist is expensive, we're not talking small change here. The money they spent on patents is also quite big, their office/lab sizes are big and they have let people walk through them and see the equipment (without seeing how it works of course, but just the size/hardware they've saw is no small change).

This could mean that they are either naive in a scientific sense, or astute (or foolhardy?) in the business sense.

So, on the one hand they're spending a lot of money on this, they do have some back story (they didn't come out of nowhere) in technology and they are not just begging for investors left and right like all the other previous shams.

This is a puzzle, I agree. Why is a company with a long track record and technological expertise taking seriously a overunity device.

Some of you replied that they will be going for small investors as no serious company will invest in this (as it's not a really proven technology). But the thing is, it's not that easy getting that much money from small investors when everything is internet based and unproven. And they did mention that they will be giving the technology away (for free) for certain 3rd world projects, which can be a false claim, but again, it doesn't really match well with the fraud mind-think to me.

Perhaps they just need to do something different from the usual scam artists, in order to look legitimate. Perhaps they miscalculated.

If they are frauds, they're the best ever in the OU field, putting to shame all previous fraudsters with their level of detail and personal financial expenses.

Everyone needs a different angle to get the edge. The point is, something is wrong. It might not yet be totally clear what the "wrong" is, but something is definitely wrong.
Or there is going to be a "paradigm shift" in physics. :nope:

I'm actually positive on this, even if it comes out as nothing, at least it raised some discussion about alternative energy means, oil is the current poison of the world. The world would be a lot safer place if we had an easy alternative mean of creating energy.

There is a difference between open-mindedness and gullibility ;)

regards,
BJ
 
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BJ:
I think there's a sort of different angle going on here (assuming that any of this is even true). If you have a product that is working, even if you don't understand how it works and you're a commercial entity, you're not going to bother with peer review, you'd want your technology on the market as soon as possible.

This happens A LOT in medicine, you have a lot of drugs out there that work without the known background as to what is causing them to have the effect. Sure, physics is a lot more straight forward than chemistry and our understanding of it is probably better defined than chemistry, but the same business principles hold.

But still, if they think they have a 285% over unity device and they want to get it to market as soon as possible, the way they are moving this forward seems to fit what we've been seeing. Of course, this can lead to fraud (lets face it, there's a lot of fraud in business), but I find the way they're doing it interesting and I guess others as well.

I won't be an investor in such a thing, but I would buy a shelf product after reading technical specification from reputable publication.

Frankly, I don't even believe this sort of technology should apply for the prize. If it does work, it's probably by some as yet unexplained (or unconsidered) principle.
 
I think there's a sort of different angle going on here (assuming that any of this is even true). If you have a product that is working, even if you don't understand how it works and you're a commercial entity, you're not going to bother with peer review, you'd want your technology on the market as soon as possible.
Then why advertise for a people to test it in a business publication? If they already know it is working, and they claim that it is, why not just sell the damn things? If it really does work, every person in the western hemisphere will want one by the end of the week...

This happens A LOT in medicine, you have a lot of drugs out there that work without the known background as to what is causing them to have the effect.
And they are tested by scientists who didn't respond to a full page ad in the Economist. They went though a proper double blind test. They had to prove that they were both safe and effective, not just to the government, but to themselves. Lawsuits suck...

Sure, physics is a lot more straight forward than chemistry and our understanding of it is probably better defined than chemistry, but the same business principles hold.
Actually, chemistry is a specialized branch of physics...just don't tell that to any chemists. :)

No one is debating about business. This is about the scientific approach they are taking, as well as the moral approach. They are making an outrageous claim here.

What they are claiming will re-write every physics textbook. It will immediately put every energy company out of business. It will make anyone who holds any stock in their company instant millionaires, possibly even billionaires. If it works.

And yet they seem to be taking a total PR approach to things. They are in no hurry to get their product to market. They are more concerned with convincing people that they have a magic technology that no one else has than they are with commercializing it. That is why it smells like a scam.

But still, if they think they have a 285% over unity device and they want to get it to market as soon as possible, the way they are moving this forward seems to fit what we've been seeing.
Not at all. If a pharmaceutical company had a cure for AIDS, they wouldn't be advertising in a non-scientific publication for scientists to test it. You only do that if you want people that have a lot of money to think you have a cure for AIDS.

Of course, this can lead to fraud (lets face it, there's a lot of fraud in business), but I find the way they're doing it interesting and I guess others as well.
Sure, it is interesting. Immoral, but interesting.

I won't be an investor in such a thing, but I would buy a shelf product after reading technical specification from reputable publication.
As would I. Funny thing is though, they haven't made one yet. Nor has any reputable publication of ANY kind seen it. In fact, no one who hasn't signed a NDA has seen it.

Frankly, I don't even believe this sort of technology should apply for the prize. If it does work, it's probably by some as yet unexplained (or unconsidered) principle.
The prize is irrelevant here. One million USD is chump change to what even the smallest investor in Steorn will make if it works.

In general, over unity devices should be considered paranormal because they violate the known and accepted laws of physics.

I get the feeling that you aren't understanding the impact of what they are claiming. If they really have invented an over unity device, then this is the most important event in human history. Period.
 

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