What is paranormal in Homeopathy
- Thread starter Dr. MAS
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Homeopath Syed
New Blood
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Beware
Ofcouse I know about Eliza...
The discussion is past it now .. we are ithe phase where we can use a human being for the test...
be with the pace
Ofcouse I know about Eliza...
The discussion is past it now .. we are ithe phase where we can use a human being for the test...
be with the pace
Rolfe
Adult human female
Re: Beware
You can use yourself.
Now if I were you, I'd do just that.
You're a homoeopath, right? So I expect you think you can "prove" remedies? At least some of them? So, it ought to be very easy for you. All you have to do is show by means of your experience of the expected proving symptoms whether what you have been given is the remedy of your choice, or the stock solvent/sugar pills. (Or remedy A of your choice rather than remedy B of your choice.) And do this often enough to show that you're not just a lucky guesser.
That way, you won't even have to share the million dollars with any helpers!
Go for it!
Rolfe.
You can use volunteer humans so long as they understand what the test is all about, agree to it, and you don't propose to do anything harmful to them.Homeopath Syed said:
You can use yourself.
Now if I were you, I'd do just that.
You're a homoeopath, right? So I expect you think you can "prove" remedies? At least some of them? So, it ought to be very easy for you. All you have to do is show by means of your experience of the expected proving symptoms whether what you have been given is the remedy of your choice, or the stock solvent/sugar pills. (Or remedy A of your choice rather than remedy B of your choice.) And do this often enough to show that you're not just a lucky guesser.
That way, you won't even have to share the million dollars with any helpers!
Go for it!
Rolfe.
Rolfe
Adult human female
Re: Beware
So, you know what you just posted back there was a total load of codswallop, right?
Rolfe.
No, dear. Enzyme Linked ImmunoSorbent Assay. E-L-I-S-A.Homeopath Syed said:
So, you know what you just posted back there was a total load of codswallop, right?
Rolfe.
Homeopath Syed
New Blood
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Beware
Fine...
I can do it by two manners...
1- I can produce a disease with a homeopathic medicine about which I can tell you in advance... later i will be able to antidote it ofcourse.
2- I can remove a disease say Rhinitis with homeopathic medicine and the person who has it may thank you all in the end.
What I need...
1 - For catagory 1: One young healthy person willing to go through the provings .. he may take all of the prize money ..as I need none... for the pain and suffering he will be experiencing for three weeks.
2- For catagory 2: One person with sneezings, fluent coryza and related problems. I note the symptoms without any pathological findings...and ask someone from you to get a particular medicine and tell you the dose...You bring it ...Administer it medicine ...only once. and the coryza would go away... with in 20 miniutes maximum.
Do you disagree ?
Fine...
I can do it by two manners...
1- I can produce a disease with a homeopathic medicine about which I can tell you in advance... later i will be able to antidote it ofcourse.
2- I can remove a disease say Rhinitis with homeopathic medicine and the person who has it may thank you all in the end.
What I need...
1 - For catagory 1: One young healthy person willing to go through the provings .. he may take all of the prize money ..as I need none... for the pain and suffering he will be experiencing for three weeks.
2- For catagory 2: One person with sneezings, fluent coryza and related problems. I note the symptoms without any pathological findings...and ask someone from you to get a particular medicine and tell you the dose...You bring it ...Administer it medicine ...only once. and the coryza would go away... with in 20 miniutes maximum.
Do you disagree ?
geni
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
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Re: Beware
It's not our descission. You need to apply by following the instructions linked to below:
http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html
Homeopath Syed said:
It's not our descission. You need to apply by following the instructions linked to below:
http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html
Homeopath Syed
New Blood
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Beware
Ok..its 12:30 Am here ..leaving ...
I ll be right back tomorrow morning at 06:00 AM GMT
by the way if any of the readers is having Rhinitis, diarrhoea, migrane, Spondylitis, hayfever - he may choose to present himself for this test... we can write a contract - legal ofcourse, my attorney would be glad to do it for me. All parties inclusive. and we go ahead.
Goodnight for now!
Ok..its 12:30 Am here ..leaving ...
I ll be right back tomorrow morning at 06:00 AM GMT
by the way if any of the readers is having Rhinitis, diarrhoea, migrane, Spondylitis, hayfever - he may choose to present himself for this test... we can write a contract - legal ofcourse, my attorney would be glad to do it for me. All parties inclusive. and we go ahead.
Goodnight for now!
Rolfe
Adult human female
Goodnight, Syed.
Just remember that you will have to be able to repeat what you are able to do often enough to show that you're not just guessing.
Say, you are given a preparation. You have to say whether it is the real remedy or the blank (or remedy A as opposed to remedy B). You do whatever you like, and you give your answer. So, you have a 50% chance of guessing right! The JREF isn't going to give you the money on a 50-50 guess! Someone would already have won it for correctly predicting whether a coin would come up heads or tails if it was that easy!
No, you have to get it right (for the preliminary trial) to a level of confidence of (I understand) 1 in 1,000.
This is not as hard as it sounds, and it doesn't mean you have to do anything like 1,000 tests. Probably 15 would do.
For the remedy proving (or making someone ill with it, which I think is much the same thing), that should be quite easy. Just do it yourself, then like I said nobody will be demanding a share of the money. State your remedy, that you can tell from the stock solvent or pills. Or state your two remedies, that you can distinguish one from the other. Fifteen times you are given either, at random, not knowing which. Fifteen times, you guess correctly.
YOU'VE PASSED!
Or if you want to use cures, again I can see a fairly simple way.
Find 15 volunteers, with illnesses you're sure you can cure. Dammit, I'll volunteer myself if you get that far! Decide which remedy is the right one for each person. Then ask that you be given either the right remedy, or the untreated solvent/sugar pills. Treat the patient. Decide whether you were given the real remedy according to whether the patient is better or not.
Get it right 15 times, YOU'VE PASSED!
OK, that's only the preliminary test, you'd have to do it again with a few more repetitions for the definite test for the million dollars. But you'd only need maybe 20 trials for that. Do either of the above, 20 times, get it right 20 times, and you're a dollar millionaire! Congratulations! (Even if you have to share it with your subjects, it's still a lot of loot.)
Actually, I think the suggestions of 15 and 20 subjects for the two phases might even be too demanding. If you can get it right every time it's probably a bit less than that. There are sure to be statisticians who will be able to keep you right on that one. I think 15 and 20 respectively actually allows you one or two mistakes.
So there you go. I can't speak for the JREF of course, but having followed a number of attempts at the prize, I'm pretty sure that if you put forward either of those protocols they'll find them acceptable.
See you in the "Million Dollar Challenge" forum area, if you like - that's where people often like to discuss a serious application while they're getting ready.
I wonder if Syed will last longer than Wellfed?
Rolfe.
Just remember that you will have to be able to repeat what you are able to do often enough to show that you're not just guessing.
Say, you are given a preparation. You have to say whether it is the real remedy or the blank (or remedy A as opposed to remedy B). You do whatever you like, and you give your answer. So, you have a 50% chance of guessing right! The JREF isn't going to give you the money on a 50-50 guess! Someone would already have won it for correctly predicting whether a coin would come up heads or tails if it was that easy!
No, you have to get it right (for the preliminary trial) to a level of confidence of (I understand) 1 in 1,000.
This is not as hard as it sounds, and it doesn't mean you have to do anything like 1,000 tests. Probably 15 would do.
For the remedy proving (or making someone ill with it, which I think is much the same thing), that should be quite easy. Just do it yourself, then like I said nobody will be demanding a share of the money. State your remedy, that you can tell from the stock solvent or pills. Or state your two remedies, that you can distinguish one from the other. Fifteen times you are given either, at random, not knowing which. Fifteen times, you guess correctly.
YOU'VE PASSED!
Or if you want to use cures, again I can see a fairly simple way.
Find 15 volunteers, with illnesses you're sure you can cure. Dammit, I'll volunteer myself if you get that far! Decide which remedy is the right one for each person. Then ask that you be given either the right remedy, or the untreated solvent/sugar pills. Treat the patient. Decide whether you were given the real remedy according to whether the patient is better or not.
Get it right 15 times, YOU'VE PASSED!
OK, that's only the preliminary test, you'd have to do it again with a few more repetitions for the definite test for the million dollars. But you'd only need maybe 20 trials for that. Do either of the above, 20 times, get it right 20 times, and you're a dollar millionaire! Congratulations! (Even if you have to share it with your subjects, it's still a lot of loot.)
Actually, I think the suggestions of 15 and 20 subjects for the two phases might even be too demanding. If you can get it right every time it's probably a bit less than that. There are sure to be statisticians who will be able to keep you right on that one. I think 15 and 20 respectively actually allows you one or two mistakes.
So there you go. I can't speak for the JREF of course, but having followed a number of attempts at the prize, I'm pretty sure that if you put forward either of those protocols they'll find them acceptable.
See you in the "Million Dollar Challenge" forum area, if you like - that's where people often like to discuss a serious application while they're getting ready.
I wonder if Syed will last longer than Wellfed?
Rolfe.
Tests involving infecting a person for three weeks sounds awkward.
How about getting rid of the human factor? Use lab mice... that's what they are for.
I propose something along the lines of infecting 100 mice with "a coryza ". Then have Syed make remedy. Give 50 mice the remedy and give the other 50 water. Syed claims a 20 minute cure. We can examine the mice after 30 minutes and if the 50 that drank Syeds formula are uninfected, while the remaing 50 are unchanged, we have a winner!
Of course if homeopathy could produce results EVER, then we wouldn't be having this discussion, it would be old news, and we would all be enjoying our new health.
How about getting rid of the human factor? Use lab mice... that's what they are for.
I propose something along the lines of infecting 100 mice with "a coryza ". Then have Syed make remedy. Give 50 mice the remedy and give the other 50 water. Syed claims a 20 minute cure. We can examine the mice after 30 minutes and if the 50 that drank Syeds formula are uninfected, while the remaing 50 are unchanged, we have a winner!
Of course if homeopathy could produce results EVER, then we wouldn't be having this discussion, it would be old news, and we would all be enjoying our new health.
Re: Beware
You can cure all “Spondylitis�
Does cure mean there are no more symptoms, the damage already done is reversed and the there will never be a further recurrence of the disease?
Homeopath Syed said:
You can cure all “Spondylitis�
Does cure mean there are no more symptoms, the damage already done is reversed and the there will never be a further recurrence of the disease?
Re: Beware
Because Dr. MAS said his homeopathic students were reading this forum, the information about the sensitivity of assays might be important to them. I think it would be polite of you to try to clear up this contradiction. Perhaps you are speaking about one specific assay? If so, maybe you could give your source or example. Or perhaps you have some more thoughts on this issue? It seems clear that in general your statement is incorrect.
Homeopath Syed, maybe the discussion about your ideas for the test has moved on, but this contradiction still remains.
Because Dr. MAS said his homeopathic students were reading this forum, the information about the sensitivity of assays might be important to them. I think it would be polite of you to try to clear up this contradiction. Perhaps you are speaking about one specific assay? If so, maybe you could give your source or example. Or perhaps you have some more thoughts on this issue? It seems clear that in general your statement is incorrect.
Badly Shaved Monkey
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
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Rolfe said:
I'll buy the doughnuts and take a notepad with me!
Badly Shaved Monkey
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
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Dr. MAS said:
Oh, go on then, let's play this game
O-levels 13: 12 Grade A and 1 Grade B
A-levels: Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Pure Maths, Applied Maths
All at Grade A
S-Levels: Biology 1; Chemistry 2 (oops, didn't do any revision!)
BA (Cambridge) Cell Biology, Developmental Biology; Neurobiology. 2.1 (OK, it's not a first, but Cambridge doesn't give those away easily unlike the institutions you claim to have attended)
VetMB (Cambridge). Graduated first in class and won all the prizes.
PhD (London).
I, along with others here, think that our qualifications give us the right to teach you a thing or two, you jumped up quack. I think you need to get over yourself and pay attention to what you are being told.
But, qualifications do not matter. Arguments are valid or bogus. So far you have shown yourself too frightened even to present them. Your crappy certificates prove nothing about your abilities. Your useless posts do.
You bore us, little man. Please try harder.
Badly Shaved Monkey
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
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Re: Beware
Your naivety would be (almost) charming if it wasn't leavened with such unwarranted arrogance.
If it is so easy, why haven't you won the $1M already?
Homeopath Syed said:
Your naivety would be (almost) charming if it wasn't leavened with such unwarranted arrogance.
If it is so easy, why haven't you won the $1M already?
Ladewig
I lost an avatar bet.
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I think the next generation of the Crackpot Index should give points to those who refuse to explain a theory until they are provided with detailed educational backgrounds.
. . . . . ... . . . . . . .
. . . . . ... . . . . . . .
Jeff Corey
New York Skeptic
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Ok, my degrees is BS, MS, and Piled Higher and Deeper.
Perpetual Notion
Critical Thinker
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Aww. He doesn't award any points for using pretty colors in your posts. I thought the use of firebrick and royal blue were among his most persuasive arguments.
Homeopath Syed
New Blood
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Beware
Flume...
I quote from an article by Hoskins of Harvard University..
" Epinephrine can readily be detected by biological assay in dilutions of 1:300,000,000. To state this fact in terms that can readily be visulised, to reduce an ounce of Epinephrine crystals to a dlilutoin mentioned, the contents of forty miles of water cart, each holding 625 gallons, and deployed 200 carts to the mile would be required".
A substance from pituitary gland is so potent that 5000 miles of such carts would be required to reduce an ounce to the undetectable point.
Now the matter of present lab level of detection....The point I wanted to bring home was that we cannot detect our 30th level of diliution <potency> throgh any of the labs. Its about 300 zeros after decimal. But the Biological Assay do responds to it.
Especially, When we get "idiosyncrasies" or sensitivity in a particular subject. Dr. Von Pirquet introduced the term ALLERGY that we now use for such definations.
**You dont want me to go over the definations of Allergy, Hypersensitivity, Hypersensibility, Anaphylaxis, Taraxy, Atopy ans Susceptibility** Do you ?
There is nothing that is an absolute inert for our bodies. Although I could be sensitive to one Spectrum of medicine an you from the other. May be I am more sensitive to the animal poisons in dilutoins and you from the minerals in dilution.
Therefore, the most easy way for us to meet the STUPID CHALLENGE is through Biological Assay of Human Being. We have done it earlier, we are doing it and we will do it again.
There is no need for concerns about the non-availibility of a subject for this cause. We always have a group willing to do it and learn about it. You can't get one... I ll get two.
------------------------------
The Test.
Catagory 1 : I will not be using minerals, animal poisons, or disease products for it. Only light plant poisons in dilutions of 1:1 trillionth of even more lean. My objective is not to induce a full fledged disease here. Just enough to get the desired responce form the immune.
Catagory 2 : I would rather choose Hayfever, Rhinitis and/or Coryza that is non-febrile in nature. because you wont need few days or hours to cure them...Just 20 mins ... and the Stupid Challenge would be Busted.
---------------------------------
My attorney is here... he is presently been breifed about this and he is Laughing at this Stupidity from A circle that was thought to be of wise people in form of a challenge. Ofcourse he has experienced the effectivity of Homeopathy upon his own Hayfever.
---------------------------------
PS. I have not come here to spend time with morons. So please dont waste any of mine or yours. We are knocking at the Door.
Just Beware !
Flume...
I quote from an article by Hoskins of Harvard University..
" Epinephrine can readily be detected by biological assay in dilutions of 1:300,000,000. To state this fact in terms that can readily be visulised, to reduce an ounce of Epinephrine crystals to a dlilutoin mentioned, the contents of forty miles of water cart, each holding 625 gallons, and deployed 200 carts to the mile would be required".
A substance from pituitary gland is so potent that 5000 miles of such carts would be required to reduce an ounce to the undetectable point.
Now the matter of present lab level of detection....The point I wanted to bring home was that we cannot detect our 30th level of diliution <potency> throgh any of the labs. Its about 300 zeros after decimal. But the Biological Assay do responds to it.
Especially, When we get "idiosyncrasies" or sensitivity in a particular subject. Dr. Von Pirquet introduced the term ALLERGY that we now use for such definations.
**You dont want me to go over the definations of Allergy, Hypersensitivity, Hypersensibility, Anaphylaxis, Taraxy, Atopy ans Susceptibility** Do you ?
There is nothing that is an absolute inert for our bodies. Although I could be sensitive to one Spectrum of medicine an you from the other. May be I am more sensitive to the animal poisons in dilutoins and you from the minerals in dilution.
Therefore, the most easy way for us to meet the STUPID CHALLENGE is through Biological Assay of Human Being. We have done it earlier, we are doing it and we will do it again.
There is no need for concerns about the non-availibility of a subject for this cause. We always have a group willing to do it and learn about it. You can't get one... I ll get two.
------------------------------
The Test.
Catagory 1 : I will not be using minerals, animal poisons, or disease products for it. Only light plant poisons in dilutions of 1:1 trillionth of even more lean. My objective is not to induce a full fledged disease here. Just enough to get the desired responce form the immune.
Catagory 2 : I would rather choose Hayfever, Rhinitis and/or Coryza that is non-febrile in nature. because you wont need few days or hours to cure them...Just 20 mins ... and the Stupid Challenge would be Busted.
---------------------------------
My attorney is here... he is presently been breifed about this and he is Laughing at this Stupidity from A circle that was thought to be of wise people in form of a challenge. Ofcourse he has experienced the effectivity of Homeopathy upon his own Hayfever.
---------------------------------
PS. I have not come here to spend time with morons. So please dont waste any of mine or yours. We are knocking at the Door.
Just Beware !
Homeopath Syed
New Blood
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2005
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- 22
Beware
PS.
I need a program in 10 hours.
Thanks
PS.
I need a program in 10 hours.
Thanks