What is paranormal in Homeopathy

[Ossai]

Dr. MAS

I am facing great difficulty in educating you about the scientific explanation of homeopathy.

Because there is no effect of homeopathy beyond placebo. If there were an effect, then you could explain it.

The most obvious reason is, I have no idea to whom I am discussing. What is your level of education whether you can understand basic laws of chemistry or not?

Why should that be a hindrance when it’s apparent you don’t understand basic chemistry.

It is too logical that when you have not studied biochemistry then how can I coach you?

It has been pointed out numerous times that there is a wide variety of degrees and professions on this board. All you are doing is stalling.

I want to explain to members, but they are raising questions and questions but not replying my basic eligibility demand.

Lie.

Dr. MAS lying for Allah.
I think pmckean got it when he called

It's Magic God Juice!

.

Ossai

 

[Mojo]

If there were an effect, then you could explain it.

If there was any real effect, just demonstrating it exists would be enough, even without an explanation of how. Dr. MAS (and the others) have the cart before the horse. Explaining how something could possibly work does not establish that it does work. The fact that he seems to be concentrating on explanations rather than evidence should tell us something about how strong he really thinks the case for homeopathy is.

 

[Rolfe]

If there was any real effect, just demonstrating it exists would be enough, even without an explanation of how. Dr. MAS (and the others) have the cart before the horse. Explaining how something could possibly work does not establish that it does work. The fact that he seems to be concentrating on explanations rather than evidence should tell us something about how strong he really thinks the case for homeopathy is.

I think he's concentrating on the explanations because he thinks the fact that "it works" is so self-evident it can be taken for granted.

This is the real problem with the "true believer" situation. They will not under any circumstances give any thought to the possibility that they might be mistaken. We just get back to Kumar, and it not being possible to dismiss all this mass.... existing.... crap. It is not possible that so many people could be so foolish as to be mistaken, end of argument.

We've seen how blindly they try to rationalise themselves out of the hole they're in from the failure of the controlled trials. Hey, controlled trials are not applicable to homoeopathy! We're told that this is like demanding that his claimed trip to the moon must be done in an aeroplane. No, it's simply the only way we know that you can confirm that you've actually been to the moon. But we can go round that all year, and not get anywhere. They know it works. Explanations of how easy it is to convince oneself that a useless treatment has an effect, and how often it's happened in the past, fall on deaf ears.

So all we can do is address each suggested mode of action as it is presented to us.

Rolfe.

 

[steenkh]

This is the real problem with the "true believer" situation. They will not under any circumstances give any thought to the possibility that they might be mistaken.

And yet, they are usually quick to accuse others of not being open-minded!

 

[Jeff Corey]

I'm not sure that Dr. Mas is the sort of true believer Kumar is. Dr. Mas' arrogance and condescending posts hint at crass manipulation of his followers, whereas Kumar seems to be miseducated as to basic scientific facts.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

I'm not sure that Dr. Mas is the sort of true believer Kumar is. Dr. Mas' arrogance and condescending posts hint at crass manipulation of his followers, whereas Kumar seems to be miseducated as to basic scientific facts.

I think that a lot of them suffer from being big fish in their small pond. Satisfying an over-estimated view of their own abilities seems to drive a lot of woos. They literally cannot conceive just what a tiny minority view they hold, corollary of which is that vast numbers of relative non-experts outside the world of woo know more about both their alleged field of expertise and the larger world of scientific knowledge around it.

What they cannot comprehend is that many of us who have looked at homeopathy from the outside understand its basic principles a damn sight better than they do. They suffer from a very severe case of inability to see the wood for the trees: so embedded are they in their myriad arbitrary rules and ad hoc explanations they float in a mass of poorly collated minutiae, whereas as we look at them from the outside and cut away the fripperies to see the nonsense that lies at the core.

 

[Rolfe]

I'm not sure that Dr. Mas is the sort of true believer Kumar is. Dr. Mas' arrogance and condescending posts hint at crass manipulation of his followers, whereas Kumar seems to be miseducated as to basic scientific facts.

Mmm, that's a possibility for the agenda. Perhaps he thought he could bamboozle us into thinking he had an argument, the way he bamboozled his mates into thinking the photo-frame-in-a-bottle was inexplicable. And then use that to boost his popularity and prestige back home.

Now he sees that he may not be able to prestidigitate his arguments, he stalls.

Rolfe.

 

[Mojo]

I am facing great difficulty in educating you about the scientific explanation of homeopathy. The most obvious reason is, I have no idea to whom I am discussing. What is your level of education whether you can understand basic laws of chemistry or not? It is too logical that when you have not studied biochemistry then how can I coach you?

Dr. MAS, several other people have already posted their qualifications; I'll add my BSc. in chemistry and biochemistry. If you have the qualifications that you claim to have, I assume that you must have learned to read somewhere along the way. Why, then, do you appear to be totally unable to understand what has been posted?

I want to explain to members

Your behaviour so far suggests strongly that this statement of yours is untrue. Why are you so reluctant to post your proof of homeopathy? Is it because you realise that it doesn't really work at all?

 

[Rolfe]

They literally cannot conceive just what a tiny minority view they hold, ....

I think they have problems comprehending relative numerical sizes right across the board. One of the biggest problems is their inability to understand the sort of orders of magnitude involved in all these dilution factors, and the size of molecules and atoms. They seem to think that a molecule might be about the same size as a grain of sand, and that Loch Ness probably has about the same amount of water as my hypothetical container the size of the solar system.

By the way, your letter is in the Veterinary Times today. What will you say if John Saxton himself takes you up on it?

Worst case of Emperor's New Clothes I ever saw.

Rolfe.

 

[patchbunny]

Dear Members,

I am facing great difficulty in educating you about the scientific explanation of homeopathy. The most obvious reason is, I have no idea to whom I am discussing.

Huh. And here I thought it was because you were not answering any of the questions you were asked.

What is your level of education whether you can understand basic laws of chemistry or not? It is too logical that when you have not studied biochemistry then how can I coach you?

No, that's called teaching. It's the process by which ideas and concepts are passed from a teacher (who has knowledge of a subject) to a student (who does not). Of course, since Rolfe and others in this forum have degrees in chemistry, it's more akin to having a bull session with other instructors in the teacher's lounge.

So fire away! Please answer some of the many, many, questions that you've been asked. We're all waiting.

--Patch

Ya know, I just had the odd thought. Do ya suppose Dr Mas is posting in all these colors so he can zoom in on his own posts as he scrolls about?

 

[Metullus]

Dear Members,

I am facing great difficulty in educating you about the scientific explanation of homeopathy. The most obvious reason is, I have no idea to whom I am discussing. What is your level of education whether you can understand basic laws of chemistry or not? It is too logical that when you have not studied biochemistry then how can I coach you?

I want to explain to members, but they are raising questions and questions but not replying my basic eligibility demand. I am feeling, I am standing among nursery class students who have denied that homeopathy can’t be explained thought scientific principles but these students are unable to understand basic science facts.

I again request you if any body is interested in understanding the scientific method, he or she should come and reveal his/her academic background so that I could teach him according to his/her educational status. I do not find anything wrong in this condition.

See, PMCkeen has left the forum, when I requested him to come forward with your real educational background. You know criticizing / or asking question is very easy but understanding a reply is quite difficult job. If you want to understand something you have to prove your academic background so that I could teach you accordingly.

Okay. Dr. MAS:

Not that it matters (the academic and intellectual qualifications of the various posters in this thread and in this forum should be obvious to even the thickest visitor just by reading their posts) but here are my academic qualifications:

BS Biology
BA History
BA Economics
MA History

Post-grad studies in Physics, Chemistry, & Anthropology

I can read and write in English, so language should not be a problem.

So...?

 

[drkitten]

And here are mine, in case you need more encouragement.

BSc Chemistry
BSc Biomedical Engineering
MSc Biophysics
MSc Mathematics
MEng Computer Science
Ph.D. Neurochemistry
Ph.D. Electrical Engineering
Ph.D. English Literature
MD Psychiatry
JD Admiralty Law
DDiv Apologetics


(Hey, he lies, I lie.....)

 

[alfaniner]

Maybe he's looking for a "High-energy scientist".

 

[Homeopath Syed]

Beware...!

It has been sometime that I read all the useless discussions among you people regarding homeopathy. Initially it looked intelligent as a specific test was asked....
"How can we differ between two homeopathic preparations..." Ofcourse I know answer...! but no use telling you..!

You cant tell the difference between any two vaccinies if prepared in identical career. Can you ?

Know something about "Epinephrine" ? or not .

Know somthing about the "Sensitivity of Biological Assay of human beings" ?

We will talk later......

 

[steenkh]

Maybe he's looking for a "High-energy scientist".

(the best jokes are insider jokes!)

 

[geni]

Re: Beware...!

It has been sometime that I read all the useless discussions among you people regarding homeopathy. Initially it looked intelligent as a specific test was asked....
"How can we differ between two homeopathic preparations..." Ofcourse I know answer...! but no use telling you..!

No the question was if you could tell the difference between a high potency homeopathic remedy and the stock solvent.

You cant tell the difference between any two vaccinies if prepared in identical career. Can you ?

Depends

Know something about "Epinephrine" ? or not .

It's a hormone and a neurotransmitter. It is responcible for flight/flight reaction.

Incerdently your sig is facturly incorrect. The shape of the earth has been know before 1AD.

 

[steenkh]

Re: Beware...!

"How can we differ between two homeopathic preparations..." Ofcourse I know answer...! but no use telling you..!

This gets better and better!
Another one who knows the answers but will not tell them!

You cant tell the difference between any two vaccinies if prepared in identical career. Can you ?

As a matter of fact, I am quite sure it can be done, if at some expense. But since I am neither a biologist or a chemist, I will leave it to others to give you an authoritative answer to this.

 

[Ashles]

Re: Beware...!

It has been sometime that I read all the useless discussions among you people regarding homeopathy. Initially it looked intelligent as a specific test was asked....
"How can we differ between two homeopathic preparations..." Ofcourse I know answer...! but no use telling you..!

You cant tell the difference between any two vaccinies if prepared in identical career. Can you ?

Know something about "Epinephrine" ? or not .

Know somthing about the "Sensitivity of Biological Assay of human beings" ?

We will talk later......

If you would like to explain your theories of the mechanisms behind homeopathy I (and others) would be interested to hear them.
I have set up this thread for you to do so.

Incidentally (as geni has pointed out) your sig is incorrect. Please click on the link in my sig for more information.

 

[Terry]

I am facing great difficulty in educating you about the scientific explanation of homeopathy. The most obvious reason is, I have no idea to whom I am discussing. What is your level of education whether you can understand basic laws of chemistry or not? It is too logical that when you have not studied biochemistry then how can I coach you?

I did A-level chemistry (got an A, too), and have an B.Sc. engineering degree from an institution where the emphasis was on engineering science rather than empirical practice. I believe I should be able to follow your explanation. Please go ahead and post it.

--Terry.

 

[Ashles]

Dr. MAS - I've set up a thread for you too so you can explain your theories to us in whatever level of detail you like.

Assume we are all experts in the required fields and take it from there.