What if Nazism wasn't anti-Semitic?

[aggle-rithm]

German scientists did detonate a nuclear bomb in the Fall of 1944 near the Baltic Sea without the help of Jewish physicists and again in March 1945 in central Germany.

No, they didn't.

 

[aggle-rithm]

If National Socialism was never anti-Semitic then the Jews would never have declared war on Germany when Hitler came to power. They never declared war on Mussolini when he came to power in Italy.

Thanks for that...you're hilarious!

 

[aggle-rithm]

I think Hitler's prejudice against the Slavs was a much bigger factor in his defeat than that against the Jews. The Jews weren't numerous enough to be a big threat, but the Slavs ended up swarming all over Germany like ants on a cheeseburger.

Of course, if Hitler didn't have such a low opinion of the Slavs, he probably never would have considered invading the Baltic states. His conquests might have been limited to Czechoslavakia and Poland (and, of course, any countries that stood in his way).

 

[Sledge]

No, they didn't.

Yes they did. It was launched from their moon base.

 

[Thunder]

If National Socialism was never anti-Semitic then the Jews would never have declared war on Germany when Hitler came to power. They never declared war on Mussolini when he came to power in Italy.

The Jews, were not a state. Hence they could not declare war on anyone.

All they did was try to organize a boycott of German goods. Big deal. The world continued to buy lots of German goods up until 1938.

Here is the Nazi Hindenburg in NJ

here it is flying over NYC

some boycott, huh?

 

[quarky]

If the KKK weren't racist and anti-Semitic, they'd have members in congress.

 

[Pardalis]

If the KKK weren't racist and anti-Semitic, they'd have members in congress.

They wouldn't be the KKK now would they?

 

[Elizabeth I]

If the KKK weren't racist and anti-Semitic, they'd have members in congress.

Is that sarcasm?

Robert Byrd

 

[quarky]

Is that sarcasm?

Robert Byrd

Usually, yes.

 

[TSR]

Yes they did. It was launched from their moon base.

.
No no no. I keep telling you, Antarctica

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/z/zundel-ernst/flying-saucers/expedition.html
.

 

[theprestige]

Good points, but I don't think the Nazi Party would have been able to eventually control Germany if not for it's key selling point: anti-Semitism. And as you point out, it doomed them from the start.

Why not? Fascists managed to rise to power in Spain and Italy without anti-semitism. And as others have already pointed out, so did the Nazis in Germany.

 

[Thunder]

I think Nazism needed a major scapegoat...and the Jews were perfect. Now, did they have to utterly remove them from German society......and pretty much the face of Europe? No.

Nazism would have done very nicely, even with its Jews limited to ghettos...and Jewish scientists given special treatment if they divot their time to the Nazi war machine.

for example, the USSR has many anti-Jewish laws. but they made use of them in science, the military, etc. they got their scapegoat cake and ate it too.

 

[Alt+F4]

Except that it wasn't their key selling point in their rise to power 1928-1933.

"Mein Kampf"

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

If National Socialism was never anti-Semitic then the Jews would never have declared war on Germany when Hitler came to power. They never declared war on Mussolini when he came to power in Italy.

Heh. Really? Last I heard, Hitler became chancellor in January 1933. The Reichstag fire and subsequent totalitarian power grab happened in February 1933. The Ermächtigungsgesetz which gave him even more powers, effectively turning it into a legal dictatorship, happened in March 1933. In July 1933 all parties except the NSDAP were banned or forced to self-disolve, turning it into a complete dictatorship.

Care to point out which country declared war on Germany in 1933, which is when Hitler came to power? In fact, anywhere in the over 6 years (in fact closer to 7) between that and the invasion of Poland?

ETA: and in case it might not yet have been clear in 1933, the Nuremberg Laws in 1935 made his anti-semitism very very clear and official. Can you point out which Jews declared war in 1935?

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

"Mein Kampf"

Sort of. What percentage of americans do you think have read Obama's book "Dreams from My Father" and based their vote on it? Right, thought so. Well, sad to say, the vast mass of the German population wasn't more intellectual than that either

 

[ddt]

Of course. They kept the really crazy stuff under wraps until they were firmly in control.

They were kind of like the Church of Scientology.

Except that it wasn't their key selling point in their rise to power 1928-1933.

"Mein Kampf"

I didn't say the Nazis' antisemitism couldn't be known. Hitler's speeches in his Munich years 1919-1923 were rife with anti-semitism. He laid it down in Mein Kampf. So no, they were not like Scientology, keeping the crazy stuff under wraps.

But in his bid for national power - mark the period I gave - Hitler hardly mentioned anti-semitism. Rails against Versailles, revanchism, rebuilding Germany, that stuff. That resonated with the average German. But do you think the average Berliner or Hamburger remembered what Hitler had been shouting in Munich beer halls 5+ years ago?

And who actually read Mein Kampf? You know how it became a bestseller? Because, once the Nazis were in power, every newly-wed couple received a copy.

 

[theprestige]

Sort of. What percentage of americans do you think have read Obama's book "Dreams from My Father" and based their vote on it? Right, thought so. Well, sad to say, the vast mass of the German population wasn't more intellectual than that either

Not, mind you, that reading either work is necessarily "intellectual".

 

[barrymore]

Excuse my ignorance, but what role did the Nazi genocide play vs the general prevention of upsetting economic and political power in the choice of countries such as France, UK, and US in opposing Germany?

 

[rjh01]

barrymore I suggest you re-read the OP as that says how Germany was handicapped by its persecution of the Jews and other minorities. If that does not answer your question please rephrase your question as it is not clear what you are asking.

 

[barrymore]

barrymore I suggest you re-read the OP as that says how Germany was handicapped by its persecution of the Jews and other minorities. If that does not answer your question please rephrase your question as it is not clear what you are asking.

Take France. They had incentive to take down Germany due to the threat of major political and economic disruption of the status quo in France itself. Same for countries such as UK and US. This is somewhat of a broad strokes interpretation, but nevertheless.

This is where my understanding of WW2 is fuzzy. Aside from the motivations mentioned above, how did the genocide influence the involvement of German opposition? And if the genocide were much smaller in magnitude, would that have likely affected the eagerness of France, UK, et al, or was it solely fought from a national security perspective?