WA Senate passes bump stock ban

[Ranb]

https://www.fourguysguns.com/articles/fostech-outdoors-defend-ar15-bumpfire-stock-review/

From your link;

Time and time again I see people at the range with Bumpfire stocks blasting through ammo... no targets just shooting at the berm. Normally I see a group size equivalent to a family sedan, and wonder why people buy them.

Okay, that is something. Still no idea what distance for the family sedan group size.

I shot a group roughly double the size of an identical AR15 in full auto.

This is as precise as the article gets when describing the accuracy of an ar-15 with their bump stock. The video link doesn't work.

The article was a stupid piece of fluff with very little detail on this heavy $500 metal accessory. I've seen it as low as $300 elsewhere, but no one is crowing about how accurate an ar-15 is when bumped fired with the stock installed. Over 600 words in the article and it's just written to rip off any chump who wants to waste ammo.

A moment ago you were preaching self righteously about preventing mass murder. Now you've walked it back to false advertising.

And once again it seems he is confusing his opinion with evidence. This is my shocked face.

 

[thaiboxerken]

A moment ago you were preaching self righteously about preventing mass murder. Now you've walked it back to false advertising.

Either we need to protect people from these weapons of mass destruction because they increase fire rate without compromising accuracy OR protect consumers because of false advertisement. Either way, bump stocks should be illegal because they are immoral.

 

[Ranb]

Either we need to protect people from these weapons of mass destruction

A bump fire semi-auto rifle is not a WMD; not by any rational person's definition anyway.

because they increase fire rate without compromising accuracy

They do degrade accuracy, compared to aimed semi-auto fire.

OR protect consumers because of false advertisement.

Can you show me an example of the false advertisement? Of course not, it exists only in your imagination.

Either way, bump stocks should be illegal because they are immoral.

Only people are immoral. All of your arguments in this thread are sorely lacking in substance to say the least.

 

[thaiboxerken]

A bump fire semi-auto rifle is not a WMD; not by any rational person's definition anyway.

Sorry, I meant mass murder. See Las Vegas Shooting 2017 for an example.

They do degrade accuracy, compared to aimed semi-auto fire.

Not according to Slide Fire, at least for their particular product.

Can you show me an example of the false advertisement? Of course not, it exists only in your imagination.

I'm not claiming it, YOU are: "So you're really going to believe Slide Fire when they claim using bump fire techniques doesn't reduce accuracy? If they claim this, then they think that you, I and anyone else reading their claim is a complete idiot."



So, which is it? Slide Lock allows a person a higher rate of fire without compromising accuracy OR they are misleading with their advertisement? Please show your work.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Protip: Full auto isn't very accurate. Being less accurate than full auto isn't an endorsement.

How accurate do you have to be to hit a crowd?

 

[theprestige]

How accurate do you have to be to hit a crowd?

Depends on size, distance, firing platform, etc.

 

[thaiboxerken]

How accurate do you have to be to hit a crowd?

Not very. See Las Vegas Shooting 2017 as an example.

 

[Ranb]

So, which is it? Slide Lock allows a person a higher rate of fire without compromising accuracy OR they are misleading with their advertisement? Please show your work.

Unless we know more about how they define "compromising accuracy", then I don't think Slidefire can be held accountable for what you call false advertising. I think it's up to you to purchase an ar-15 with one of their bump stocks to prove of disprove their claims. Then you can sue them for false advertising.

I think you will settle for blowing smoke on the forum instead of taking any action you think could save lives.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I think I'll just settle for the banning of the bump stock and not take your word for it that it makes the weapon less effective.

 

[Ranb]

I think I'll just settle for the banning of the bump stock and not take your word for it that it makes the weapon less effective.

I suppose I'm wasting my time again asking where I made this claim that a bump stock makes a gun less effective? I know it can increase rate of fire. But I also know unless more of those bullets hit the target, increasing rates of fire does not make it more effective.

Shooting at a very large target is one case where a bump fire stock can make a rifle more effective; I've stated this before.

But then this doesn't fit in your world were you just make up stuff and call it evidence or claim someone said something but you can't be bothered to use the quote function.

 

[William Parcher]

I was a bit surprised at the autopsy reports from Las Vegas. Many of the victims had been hit more than once. Some had been hit three times. I wasn't expecting that.

I don't know if this is because of accuracy or large numbers of bullets flying or just random chance, or what.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I suppose I'm wasting my time again asking where I made this claim that a bump stock makes a gun less effective? I know it can increase rate of fire. But I also know unless more of those bullets hit the target, increasing rates of fire does not make it more effective.

Shooting at a very large target is one case where a bump fire stock can make a rifle more effective; I've stated this before.

But then this doesn't fit in your world were you just make up stuff and call it evidence or claim someone said something but you can't be bothered to use the quote function.

A crowded concert is a large target. The bump stock made the rifle more effective at killing more people. There is a market for bump stocks because they make the weapon more effective at hitting large targets with more bullets in a smaller amount of time.

 

[Ranb]

I was a bit surprised at the autopsy reports from Las Vegas. Many of the victims had been hit more than once. Some had been hit three times. I wasn't expecting that.

I don't know if this is because of accuracy or large numbers of bullets flying or just random chance, or what.

I suspect it was random. At 1200 feet with a bump fired rifle the shooter can't really pick out one person in the crowd and expect to inflict multiple wounds.

Got a link to those reports?

A crowded concert is a large target. The bump stock made the rifle more effective at killing more people.

You repeated what I said in my post. So?

There is a market for bump stocks because they make the weapon more effective at hitting large targets with more bullets in a smaller amount of time.

The way I've seen them advertised implies they're merely good for sending large amounts of ammo downrange. No one is really bragging about how well they are at hitting the target other than saying weasel words like "accuracy not compromised" or "2x the group size as full auto". If you were a gun enthusiast perhaps you understand that these are code words for "accuracy sucks but shooting fast is fun".

 

[thaiboxerken]

I suspect it was random. At 1200 feet with a bump fired rifle the shooter can't really pick out one person in the crowd and expect to inflict multiple wounds.

Got a link to those reports?

Of course it was random. That's the point of spraying large amounts of bullets into a crowd.

 

[William Parcher]

I suspect it was random. At 1200 feet with a bump fired rifle the shooter can't really pick out one person in the crowd and expect to inflict multiple wounds.

Got a link to those reports?

Can't yet find where I read that some had been hit three times...

Most of those killed at the Route 91 Harvest festival died from a single gunshot wound, according to the coroner’s office. Six died from multiple wounds...

...Jennifer Parks, a 36-year-old kindergarten teacher from Palmdale, California, died from multiple gunshot wounds to the head...

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime...-released-for-58-killed-in-las-vegas-shooting

 

[Ranb]

http://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?BillNumber=5992&Year=2017
The bill was scheduled for an executive hearing today. It says no action was taken; it is scheduled now for the 14th.

 

[Lurch]

Multiple hits on a small fraction of the victims in LV is explainable as Poisson statistics. A truly random pattern will have localized clumpings that at first glance would seem impossibly unlikely. That's one way in which fakers of data are caught out; their artificially constructed sample is too smoothly 'uniform' in its distribution. Real randomness is more irregularly haphazard.

 

[ginjawarrior]

They do degrade accuracy, compared to aimed semi-auto fire.
.

full auto machine guns degrade accuracy compared to semi auto fire

the machine pistol bstrong posted earlier would be even more inaccurate

comparing the accuracy to semi auto is pretty irrelevant


in this video he says accuracy isnt too bad

but again targeting large groups of people accuracy comes second to faster rate of fire

 

[theprestige]

but again targeting large groups of people accuracy comes second to faster rate of fire

Again, it actually depends on the size of the group, the density of the group, the distance to the group, and the stability of the firing platform. Among other things.

Outside of storming a trenchful of enemy soldiers at close range, there's probably not that many scenarios where full auto would be that much more effective than semi auto fire.

 

[Mikemcc]

full auto machine guns degrade accuracy compared to semi auto fire

the machine pistol bstrong posted earlier would be even more inaccurate

comparing the accuracy to semi auto is pretty irrelevant


in this video he says accuracy isnt too bad

but again targeting large groups of people accuracy comes second to faster rate of fire

Not necessarily. The British GPMG (based on the FN-MAG) has a well known splash pattern when fired in indirect role from the tripod, and is used when planning indirect fire tasks.

In direct role, yeah, I totally agree. Rock-and-roll on auto is only useful for suppressive fire.