WA Senate passes bump stock ban

[PhantomWolf]

It's very easy to bumpfire a rifle:

What I find interesting is that all the videos I can find of people bumpfiring are of people that are well practiced. There don't seem to be many is any "Bob's first time bumpfiring" videos, but there are a lot of "Jane's first time with a bumpfire stock" videos.

Maybe I am wrong, but that in itself suggests to me that it takes some practice to get the hang of bumpfiring naturally, whereas anyone can pick up a bumpfire stock and just use it straight out of the box.

 

[theprestige]

How so?

They bog down society with needless bureaucracy. They waste police resources on needless enforcement. They threaten citizens with needless crimes.

Why on earth would you want a law you cannot justify? Why on earth should any other citizen tolerate such a shifting of your burden of proof, even for a second?

 

[Ranb]

What I find interesting is that all the videos I can find of people bumpfiring are of people that are well practiced. There don't seem to be many is any "Bob's first time bumpfiring" videos, but there are a lot of "Jane's first time with a bumpfire stock" videos.

How do you tell the difference between well practiced shooters who bump fire and beginners? Surely you understand that some people tend to edit their videos to show them in the best light. I mean who wants to see a person showing off how terrible they are shooting a rifle?

Maybe I am wrong, but that in itself suggests to me that it takes some practice to get the hang of bumpfiring naturally, whereas anyone can pick up a bumpfire stock and just use it straight out of the box.

I'm only speaking for myself, but it takes practice to bump fire with or without a slide fire stock; it is easier with the slide fire stock though.

 

[thaiboxerken]

They bog down society with needless bureaucracy. They waste police resources on needless enforcement. They threaten citizens with needless crimes.

Why on earth would you want a law you cannot justify? Why on earth should any other citizen tolerate such a shifting of your burden of proof, even for a second?

So, you'd rather err on the side of mass murder than on safety. Not me. I'd rather keep weapons of mass murder out of most people's hands.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

Why on earth would you want a law you cannot justify? Why on earth should any other citizen tolerate such a shifting of your burden of proof, even for a second?

Whether they can be 'justified' or not, no laws are necessary. And any attempted 'justification' can easily be refuted simply by refusing to accept it.

They bog down society with needless bureaucracy. They waste police resources on needless enforcement. They threaten citizens with needless crimes.

All laws do that. And the most 'justified' laws are often the worst offenders.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I've never bump fired anything so I'll admit my ignorance, but I've just looked at three youtube videos of bump firing without a bump stock and in all cases the shooter was holding the gun at hip level, this was also mentioned in a review I read so is it fair to say this is a common technique? The similarly small number of videos I've seen of bump stocks have all been held at the shoulder. The other difference that seemed obvious to me, again as casual observer, was that although both techniques obviously allow the gun to move back and forth the stock seems to offer significantly firmer grip at the trigger hand which reasonably would imply greater accuracy and control.

This review is particularly complimentary about accuracy-:

https://www.fourguysguns.com/articles/fostech-outdoors-defend-ar15-bumpfire-stock-review/

In the small sample of reviews I looked at it was often mentioned that these devices aren't a replacement for for fully automatic weapons, I can understand that, it would obviously be completely unsuitable under the circumstances where the military, for example, would use them, but in a situation like the Las Vegas shooting where target avaliability is high and there is little chance of return fire I think it was probably an effective addition to his armament.

 

[Ranb]

I've never bump fired anything so I'll admit my ignorance, but I've just looked at three youtube videos of bump firing without a bump stock and in all cases the shooter was holding the gun at hip level, this was also mentioned in a review I read so is it fair to say this is a common technique?

The only videos I've seen on bump fire had the stock to the shoulder; that's the only way I've done it. I've heard it can be done from the hip; never tried it though.

The similarly small number of videos I've seen of bump stocks have all been held at the shoulder. The other difference that seemed obvious to me, again as casual observer, was that although both techniques obviously allow the gun to move back and forth the stock seems to offer significantly firmer grip at the trigger hand which reasonably would imply greater accuracy and control.

I would say that the slide fire stock allows for less inaccurate firing. No one is accurate with bump fire as far as I can tell.

 

[Ranb]

So, you'd rather err on the side of mass murder than on safety. Not me. I'd rather keep weapons of mass murder out of most people's hands.

A slide fire stock was not required for any incident of mass murder.

 

[thaiboxerken]

A slide fire stock was not required for any incident of mass murder.

Not required, just preferred, used, and increased the casualties. You're trying to convince people that bump stocks do not increase firing rates, which is the purpose of the product and why the product sells.

 

[Ranb]

Not required, just preferred, used, and increased the casualties.

Bolding mine. Evidence for this claim?

You're trying to convince people that bump stocks do not increase firing rates, which is the purpose of the product and why the product sells.

How about you quote the post where I said this? You can't because you simply made up the claim. I'm rather tired of the arguments you make up out of thin air. Can't you do this somewhere else?

 

[thaiboxerken]

Increased firing rates do not equal increased casualties?

 

[BobTheCoward]

So, you'd rather err on the side of mass murder than on safety. Not me. I'd rather keep weapons of mass murder out of most people's hands.

I'm of the opposite position.

 

[Ranb]

Increased firing rates do not equal increased casualties?

They do only if the bullets hit someone. You're being evasive, again. How about you supply the post where I claimed bump firing doesn't increase rate of fire and prove that inaccurate bump fire is more effective than accurate slower fire.

 

[thaiboxerken]

They do only if the bullets hit someone. You're being evasive, again. How about you supply the post where I claimed bump firing doesn't increase rate of fire and prove that inaccurate bump fire is more effective than accurate slower fire.

You are implying that increasing the rate of fire makes no difference in casualties, actually, you are arguing it right now. I don't believe you. More bullets fired into a crowd = more casualties. For evidence, see Las Vegas Shooting 2017. Also, do bump stocks decrease accuracy?

This company claims it does not: http://www.slidefire.com/

 

[Ranb]

You are implying that increasing the rate of fire makes no difference in casualties, actually, you are arguing it right now.

Actually I said that bullets hitting the target increases casualties; simply increasing the rate of fire doesn't always mean more targets hit. Neither you or I were being specific to the Vegas shooting when posting in this thread.

I don't believe you. More bullets fired into a crowd = more casualties. For evidence, see Las Vegas Shooting 2017. Also, do bump stocks decrease accuracy?

This company claims it does not: http://www.slidefire.com/

Yes if the bullets are actually fired into the crowd they will cause more casualties; but if the bullets miss the crowd they do not. How is it you can't understand this?

So you're really going to believe Slide Fire when they claim using bump fire techniques doesn't reduce accuracy? If they claim this, then they think that you, I and anyone else reading their claim is a complete idiot.

ETA; I saw nothing in that link claiming that accuracy is not degraded with bump firing. They didn't show any accuracy claims in their piece of fluff video.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Actually I said that bullets hitting the target increases casualties; simply increasing the rate of fire doesn't always mean more targets hit. Neither you or I were being specific to the Vegas shooting when posting in this thread.


Yes if the bullets are actually fired into the crowd they will cause more casualties; but if the bullets miss the crowd they do not. How is it you can't understand this?

Accuracy means little when shooting the side of a barn, or into a crowded concert.

So you're really going to believe Slide Fire when they claim using bump fire techniques doesn't reduce accuracy? If they claim this, then they think that you, I and anyone else reading their claim is a complete idiot.

Well then I think bump stocks should be banned to protect consumers from buying a product that doesn't do what it claims.

 

[Ranb]

Accuracy means little when shooting the side of a barn, or into a crowded concert.

You're still being evasive. You accused me of something, I want evidence to support your accusation or a retraction.

Well then I think bump stocks should be banned to protect consumers from buying a product that doesn't do what it claims.

They claim an increased rate of semi-auto fire; it does that.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I would say that the slide fire stock allows for less inaccurate firing. No one is accurate with bump fire as far as I can tell.

After getting my hands on one, I found that all of my initial concerns and reservations about them were really just skepticism and lack of experience. We were able to shoot with accuracy (Close to the accuracy of a full auto, check out the video) and reliability plus if you can’t get your hands on a true full auto it’s pretty darn close.

https://www.fourguysguns.com/articles/fostech-outdoors-defend-ar15-bumpfire-stock-review/

 

[theprestige]

Accuracy means little when shooting the side of a barn, or into a crowded concert.




Well then I think bump stocks should be banned to protect consumers from buying a product that doesn't do what it claims.

A moment ago you were preaching self righteously about preventing mass murder. Now you've walked it back to false advertising.

 

[theprestige]

https://www.fourguysguns.com/articles/fostech-outdoors-defend-ar15-bumpfire-stock-review/

Protip: Full auto isn't very accurate. Being less accurate than full auto isn't an endorsement.