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Split Thread Virginia Guiffre v Duke of York

Puppycow said:
Is this the official line of succession?

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www.royal.uk

I was curious. If he's 8th in line, who is ahead of and behind him?

It seems to be the Prince of Wales (William) followed by his three children in descending order of age. Then Harry and his 2 children.

Then it says The Duke of York. I assume that means Andrew, right? Maybe the website just hasn't been updated yet to reflect the fact that he has been stripped of that title?
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Yes, that's Andrew, then his daughter's, then Edward followed by his children, then Anne and her daughters.
 
Darat said:
Yep - it's so easy to get lost in all this and start to act as if there are "rules" - it's posh people with lots of money running around playacting.
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This is one of the things Norman Baker's book (just mentioned by PJ) is very good at: demonstrating just how many "ancient traditions" were made up as long ago as the reign of Victoria and quite a few not even being that old. And all the while we are encouraged to believe that these things have been around at least since Avalonia collided with Laurentia...
 
Orphia Nay said:
I just saw a headline on ABC News saying Buckingham Palace has announced Andrew will still remain 8th in line to the throne.

How contradictory to their statement earlier sympathising with his victims!
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TBH that's not something Charlie can do, needs an Act of Parliament. Maybe Farage will oblige? Given how much he hates sex abusers......
 
SpitfireIX said:
Charles doesn't have the power to remove anyone from the line of succession; that would take an act of Parliament.

ETA: Even the abdication of Edward VIII and George VI's accession to the throne were only possible due to His Majesty's Declaration of Abdication Act 1936WP. The Act also legally barred any future children of the former (which, of course, he never had) from inheriting the throne.
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At times like this it's a pity we passed the Republic of Ireland Act.....
 
catsmate said:
No. He doesn't get it. But he should educate himself.
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Er, Richard Eden is a royal expert. Common sense should tell you that for a grandchild of a ruling sovereign to be prince or princess, that title must hold true for the intermediate son or daughter of same. For example, were a monarch to have an illegitimate child, neither that child, and ipso facto, any child legitimate or illegitimate, of that issue could automatically be prince or princess by dint of who the grandparent is.

This stuff about, oh they are prince and princess but their parents 'didn't want' the titles. Yet they are happy with Lady or Count, so obviously they do care about titles and it's just a face saver to say they never wanted it anyway. (cf Harry & Meghan's early claims, yet they cling onto their titles like limpets despite claiming to despise being trapped in the roles.)
 
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Vixen said:
Er, Richard Eden is a royal expert. Common sense should tell you that for a grandchild of a ruling sovereign to be prince or princess, that title must hold true for the intermediate son or daughter of same. For example, were a monarch to have an illegitimate child, neither that child, and ipso facto, any child legitimate or illegitimate, of that issue could automatically be prince or princess by dint of who the grandparent is.
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Who can be a Prince or Princess is entirely up to Charles in his make believe world.
Vixen said:
This stuff about, oh they are prince and princess but their parents 'didn't want' the titles. Yet they are happy with Lady or Count, so obviously they do care about titles and it's just a face saver to say they never wanted it anyway. (cf Harry & Meghan's early claims, yet they cling onto their titles like limpets despite claiming to despise being trapped in the roles.)
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Which ones are you talking about? The only ones that do not have the title of Prince or Princess are Anne's kids because the made up rules at that time said it was only the sons' kids who became a Prince or Princess. Charles has simply made up a new "rule" so his nieces get to be called princess in their make believe world.
 
Darat said:
Nope - clear as mud. Edward's kids can use the title princess and prince i.e. are a princess and a prince. Andrews's kids can use the title princess, i.e. they are princesses. Anne's kids can't use the title prince or princess because Anne is not a son of a monarch. BUT you now must remember a particularly important thing here - it is all make believe - there are no actual binding rules, they can do whatever they want.

So again what on earth did you mean by "Face saving for Anne's and Edward's children, whilst Andrew's gets to use the titles."
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The concept here is that titles are derived via the male (pre- the change in Charlotte's status). When Anne was born, being female meant she had no title to bestow on her husband. All she has is being princess (before the trimming down of this title to just the immediate heir/s). Her other titles were gifted by the Queen, traditionally on marriage. Thus her hubby and her daughter's hubby are plain commoners going by Mr or Captain if ex-army.

The claim she didn't want her kids to be prince or princess, likewise Edward, is pure face saving. Andrew's kids are princesses because Mummy gave into his usual temper tantrum and unbearable overweening sense of entitlement and overbearing pomposity by his insistence they be titled 'Princess'. It's meaningless as hubbies remain mister and titles such as Lady are simply courtesy titles for anyone whose dad is a Sir or higher.
 
Darat said:
Who can be a Prince or Princess is entirely up to Charles in his make believe world.

Which ones are you talking about? The only ones that do not have the title of Prince or Princess are Anne's kids because the made up rules at that time said it was only the sons' kids who became a Prince or Princess. Charles has simply made up a new "rule" so his nieces get to be called princess in their make believe world.
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So how do you account for Edward?
 
catsmate said:
BTW Mountbatten Windsor is to lose his vice-admiralship.
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Truth is the Duke of York title has just been removed from the roll and all the rest simply put into 'deep freeze'. He is still a prince until such time a Letters Patent is issued to amend the birthright. (Your birth certificate cannot be changed, it can only be amended.). His birth certificate says 'Prince' and that's his legal status until it is legally changed.

All the Crown has done is stopped him from using his titles, to appease the public.
 
Vixen said:
Truth is the Duke of York title has just been removed from the roll and all the rest simply put into 'deep freeze'. He is still a prince until such time a Letters Patent is issued to amend the birthright.
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Source?

ETA: Is the Palace lying to us?

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Vixen said:
Truth is the Duke of York title has just been removed from the roll and all the rest simply put into 'deep freeze'. He is still a prince until such time a Letters Patent is issued to amend the birthright. (Your birth certificate cannot be changed, it can only be amended.). His birth certificate says 'Prince' and that's his legal status until it is legally changed.

All the Crown has done is stopped him from using his titles, to appease the public.
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:rolleyes:
 
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