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Split Thread Virginia Guiffre v Duke of York

Not to mention that even if true, it's quite consistent with grooming that the victim would feel flattered to have been abused by a 'high status' member of the group, more so because he was famous.
Even if true, and I won't die on the hill about the authenticity of the photo, it would only prove she met Andrew.

Remember in the 2011 articles by Sharon Churcher, Andrew was not accused of any wrongdoing. We need a full accounting of everything that went on between early 2011 and 2014 (between meeting Churcher and Brad Edwards and the new allegations against prominent people in December 2014) to know the truth. Otherwise it's just a witch hunt.
 
Reread my posts on page 8 and tell me that's someone worth giving the benefit of doubt to.
Irrelevant. You have made numerous assertions and claim that the evidence will be forthcoming Real Soon Now.
 
Irrelevant. You have made numerous assertions and claim that the evidence will be forthcoming Real Soon Now.
If you won't even absorb these bits of info and follow the sources and document dumps and court cases I pulled them from, I've even cited the page numbers so you won't have to read pages and pages of boring "Epstein files". What good is it to prod anyone to read them? What I've said sounds strange only because the mainstream media and alt media have decided they won't cover the skeptical perspective.
 
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Even if true, and I won't die on the hill about the authenticity of the photo, it would only prove she met Andrew.

Remember in the 2011 articles by Sharon Churcher, Andrew was not accused of any wrongdoing. We need a full accounting of everything that went on between early 2011 and 2014 (between meeting Churcher and Brad Edwards and the new allegations against prominent people in December 2014) to know the truth. Otherwise it's just a witch hunt.
And yet, the sum of £12 million was paid.
 
One thing to keep in mind is that it's been reported that Andrew hasn't been stripped of his titles and styles because of Guiffre's allegations, which he continues to deny (albeit unconvincingly). It's because of the appallingly poor judgment he's shown throughout the entire affair, and in his whole relationship with Epstein and Maxwell.
 
If you won't even absorb these bits of info and follow the sources and document dumps and court cases I pulled them from, I've even cited the page numbers so you won't have to read pages and pages of boring "Epstein files". What good is it to prod anyone to read them? What I've said sounds strange only because the mainstream media and alt media have decided they won't cover the skeptical perspective.
You have made limited references to elements of court cases and extrapolated from there. This is not evidence of your assertions.
 
Nothing unusual in that, it's probably the default in most similar civil cases when an agreement is reached outside of a court imposed sanction.
But it's worth pointing out if you're assuming that settling is an admission of guilt. Is there something unreasonable about that given Andrew and the royal family's circumstances in late 2021 to early 2022? He did demand a trial shortly before settling, but there are media reports that it wasn't fully up to him, which is believable.

Do you find anything unusual at all about what I posted on page 8?
 
You have made limited references to elements of court cases and extrapolated from there. This is not evidence of your assertions.
The court cases ARE the "Epstein files" for the most part. What do you expect?

It absolutely is evidence of my assertion that Virginia Roberts is not a credible source. She's the reason the conspiracy theory even exists.
 
One thing to keep in mind is that it's been reported that Andrew hasn't been stripped of his titles and styles because of Guiffre's allegations, which he continues to deny (albeit unconvincingly). It's because of the appallingly poor judgment he's shown throughout the entire affair, and in his whole relationship with Epstein and Maxwell.
Oh SURE. Andrew's continued relationship with Epstein after he was released from jail in 2009 is the reason he's been stripped of his titles, not the constant bombardment over the last decade from lunatics motivated by Satanic pedophile conspiracy theories. Do you really believe the Andrew story would remain alive if it wasn't for Virginia, that fountain of truth?
 
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Indeed; what would be the point of paying out that much and still admitting you did it.


While not being direct evidence of anything it's probably worth mentioning that while the Royal Family are extremely free with public money their reluctance to spend their own money is legendary. Workers at Windsor Castle who stayed and fought to save priceless artifacts from the fire were offered the award of.. Free Castle Tours (I understand few took up the offer). The Queen's staff were treated to a biannual Christmas party, until the 2010s when she cancelled it due to the cist of living crisis and staff Christmas presents were often a jar of jam from the Windsor Castle gift shop, but check the use by date because it tended to be reduced to clear.

Andrew's whereabouts were always recorded because of his police protection. Proving he was at Pizza Express & not Tramps should have been trivial and probably provided on the government's tab. The fact that it wasn't is legitimate cause for speculation

This isn't proof of anything, but when people act in ways contrary to their established habits it raises the question of why.
 
Oh SURE. Andrew's continued relationship with Epstein after he was released from jail in 2009 is the reason he's been stripped of his titles, not the constant bombardment over the last decade from lunatics motivated by Satanic pedophile conspiracy theories. Do you really believe the Andrew story would remain alive if it wasn't for Virginia, that fountain of truth?
Her allegations didn't make him say a bunch of disastrously stupid things on Newsnight. Her allegations didn't make him lie about when he ended his relationship with Epstein.
 
Her allegations didn't make him say a bunch of disastrously stupid things on Newsnight. Her allegations didn't make him lie about when he ended his relationship with Epstein.
He seemed unprepared for the The Newsnight interview yes, but it was conducted almost entirely from Virginia Roberts' perspective ffs.

Imagine an interviewer who gets all his 9/11 info from Richard Gage grilling W's cabinet on the attacks. Except politicians actually have extensive experience with hostile media while Andrew was apparently quite sheltered his entire life. That has to be considered.
 
He seemed unprepared for the The Newsnight interview yes, but it was conducted almost entirely from Virginia Roberts' perspective ffs.

Imagine an interviewer who gets all his 9/11 info from Richard Gage grilling W's cabinet on the attacks. Except politicians actually have extensive experience with hostile media while Andrew was apparently quite sheltered his entire life. That has to be considered.
He almost certainly had the questions given to him in advance. Hence his carefully rehearsed eye-rolling, frowns, glares, faux-indignation and ready lies. The ease of his auto-denials (for example, denying he could ever 'sweat' owing to his heroics in the Falklands) showed this is a character to whom lying comes naturally and has done it all his life.
 
He almost certainly had the questions given to him in advance. Hence his carefully rehearsed eye-rolling, frowns, glares, faux-indignation and ready lies. The ease of his auto-denials (for example, denying he could ever 'sweat' owing to his heroics in the Falklands) showed this is a character to whom lying comes naturally and has done it all his life.
What it actually showed was an inability to listen to advice. He shouldn't have agreed to the interview in the first place, but, having done so, could have simply said he had no recollection of the events, as seems to be the standard get-out these days, rather than producing stories of Pizza Express and the inability to sweat. A bit of regret about his relationship with Epstein would also not have gone amiss. He's been indulged his whole life and is not able to accept responsibility for his actions.
 
What it actually showed was an inability to listen to advice. He shouldn't have agreed to the interview in the first place, but, having done so, could have simply said he had no recollection of the events, as seems to be the standard get-out these days, rather than producing stories of Pizza Express and the inability to sweat. A bit of regret about his relationship with Epstein would also not have gone amiss. He's been indulged his whole life and is not able to accept responsibility for his actions.
AIUI It was his daughter Beatrice who encouraged him to do it. There seems to be zero judgement in that family or maybe they have got so used to dictating terms to the media, they never thought it could backfire on them.
 

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