Understanding the Liberal Mindset

[arthwollipot]

No, please do elaborate. There's a whole thread set aside for exactly such elaborations.

I've already said why I won't.

 

[theprestige]

I've already said why I won't.

All I ask is that you follow the science.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

Things that might not seem consequential to you might be consequential to me. My daughters have both been victims of violent threats by transgender identifying males... that makes it personal for me.

I also consider women's rights, and the way they are under attack by the loony left, to be one of the most consequential issues of our time.

'Anyone who follows the science' should avoid using labels like 'the loony left', especially since it is a politically charged phrase most often used by those on the far right to denigrate anyone who doesn't agree with them.

You say it's personal for you. That's the first clue that you may not be thinking rationally. The second clue is that you cite anecdotes.

Violence against women in New Zealand

Police data for the 12 months to December 2024 shows that 80.4% of sexual assault victims were female, 13.3% were male, and 6.3% were of unspecified gender. In the same period, 97.3% of identified offenders were male.

The problem here isn't the fact that aggressors are more likely to be male, but your implication that there is a correlation between that and the 'loony left'. Even worse, you say that this forum has become an 'echo-chamber for the left and far left', implying that the majority here either approve of or minimize violence towards women by transgender identifying males. In the interests of science I have to ask where is your evidence for this?

 

[dann]

It's self evident. The material you posted makes racist and sexist claims.

That should make it so much easier for you to point out the racism and sexism in the material and explain why you think it's racist and sexist.

It makes no sense to post either. A conversation between a person and an LLM is worthless, outside the narrow field of studying a person's relationship with an LLM.

In this case, as I've already mentioned, the most interesting thing about it was the increasing desperation in the person being confronted with fact-based summaries of existing evidence and facts. I particularly enjoyed when that person called Grok arrogant. It shouldn't be difficult for somebody who is reasonably common sensical and unbiassed, i.e. somebody very much unlike Just Sayin', to see that Hitler and his cronies used the word socialist for propaganda purposes, much like the way Trump used anti-elitist and anti-corruption rhetoric (e.g. Drain the Swamp) to create a following while pandering to the oligarchs and redefining elites to mean anybody with an education beyond high-school level, or anybody somewhat science literate.

Yeah, probably.

I also asked Google AI, 'Was Hitler a socialist?', and got this:

No, Adolf Hitler was not a socialist. While the Nazi party was officially called the "National Socialist German Workers' Party," this was a strategic political label. Historians classify his regime as far-right fascism. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Key facts about the reality of his political ideology:

• Anti-Socialism: Hitler despised actual socialists and communists. The very first people imprisoned and killed in Nazi concentration camps were left-wing political opponents. [1, 2]
• Perversion of the Term: Hitler redefined "socialism" to mean race-based national unity rather than the public ownership of the means of production.
• Economic Reality: Once in power, Hitler banned independent trade unions and privatized many state-owned industries. His government worked closely with major capitalist corporations to rearm Germany. [1, 2]

For a deeper dive into the historical consensus, read this AskHistorians Thread or explore the Holocaust Encyclopedia.

So in this particular case, Grok and Google agree, and I won't argue against them.

 

[arthwollipot]

All I ask is that you follow the science.

I do. And that's all I'm going to say about it.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

I have come to realize that there is no such thing as a Conservative Mindset: it's just whatever is coinvent at the moment.

 

[smartcooky]

You have no idea whether those assaults were in any way prompted or exacerbated by the nature of their gender identity.

And of course Donald Trump and the "moderate" right are so enamored of women's rights that they convinced the SCOTUS to rescind their right to abortion. And they are worried that American women are not producing enough babies - they view them as nothing more than reproduction machines. - objects for male gratification.

The right supports a man who "grab(s) 'em by the pussy", who wanders lecherously through the occupied change areas of underage females, who fights like mad to have his relationship with Epstein covered up, who was found in court to be liable for the sexual abuse of E. Jean Carroll. Yes, the right is an enthusiastic supporter of women's rights and shows that at every opportunity.

As I keep saying (and people keep ignoring) BOTH ENDS OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM ARE PANTS!!

 

[Silly Green Monkey]

I'll say this, the pants are pulled up to the chin on only one end of the spectrum.

 

[smartcooky]

No, please do elaborate. There's a whole thread set aside for exactly such elaborations.

All I ask is that you follow the science.

 

[Steve]

As I keep saying (and people keep ignoring) BOTH ENDS OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM ARE PANTS!!

And yet you keep yammering on about only one side of the political spectrum. Your agenda is showing.

 

[smartcooky]

And yet you keep yammering on about only one side of the political spectrum. Your agenda is showing.

Yammering about the other side would be off topic in this thread. If you would like me to discuss the the feckless lots, make your points here...

Thread 'Understanding the Conservative Mindset'

Jan 12, 2026

As promised, for balance

Ultra-Conservatives consider themselves to be the guardians of moral order. Like Liberal Progressives, they also claim to believe in individual rights of each person to a life, free from government restrictions. In reality, however, they often compromise that belief for the sake of expediency, for example, they claim they dislike "Big Government" but are happy to abandon that position, use governmental control, and pass laws, to limit things which they believe impinge on moral order - abortion, birth control, gun control and gay rights are some of the things...

• smartcooky
• Replies: 295
• Forum: Social Issues

• 

 

[arthwollipot]

Yammering about the other side would be off topic in this thread. If you would like me to discuss the the feckless lots, make your points here...

Hmm. 40 pages of this thread, and how many on that? 2? Can we make it 3?

 

[Steve]

Yammering about the other side would be off topic in this thread. If you would like me to discuss the the feckless lots, make your points here...

Thread 'Understanding the Conservative Mindset'

Jan 12, 2026

As promised, for balance

Ultra-Conservatives consider themselves to be the guardians of moral order. Like Liberal Progressives, they also claim to believe in individual rights of each person to a life, free from government restrictions. In reality, however, they often compromise that belief for the sake of expediency, for example, they claim they dislike "Big Government" but are happy to abandon that position, use governmental control, and pass laws, to limit things which they believe impinge on moral order - abortion, birth control, gun control and gay rights are some of the things...

• smartcooky
• Replies: 295
• Forum: Social Issues

• 

Ok then. I believe, at this point after 40 pages of discussion we have compelling evidence that you have no comprehension of any aspect of an all-encompassing "liberal mindset". What we do have ample evidence of is that you have a personal vendetta against gender identities that you don't agree with.

 

[Norman Alexander]

So, in summary, "liberals" are defined by what they are not. Fair to say?

 

[catsmate]

I don't need the likes of you and your loony-left pals to educate me about anything. Nothing you think you know relates to anything in the real world...you live in a fantasy land that believes men can get pregnant, women can have a penis, and that the ALP is a democratic political party.

ETA: and no, I'm NOT bringing content from "the thread where intellectual cowards fear to tread" to here, nor am I trying to derail my own thread, but I am merely using them as valid examples of the utter clown show that is the current left in politics, and the bat-crap crazy stuff they have convinced themselves they believe in.

ETA2: And no, you and our loony left pals have deconstructed NOTHING. All you have done is shown your blind obedience to left wing ideology, and your rank inability to see beyond the end of your own noses.

Oh good grief, another idiotic rant.

 

[Planigale]

Liberals are pretty much what Robert Heinlein would disapprove of. If you can bare to work your way through the Lazarus Long saga you would get a pretty fair idea, even the more enjoyable Podkayne of Mars, Have Space Suit will Travel, Space Cadet, Starship Troopers, Tunnel in the Sky and Glory Road will give you an idea of what 'liberals' are and what should happen to them. To be fair with RH he would have little sympathy for the current right with their racism, sexism, need to control fertility, militarism, and professional politicians, lawyers etc.

 

[arthwollipot]

You can find one example of each of those epithets if you look hard and long enough.

When you set out by assuming your conclusion, of course you're going to find evidence to support it. That's how pseudoscientists and conspiracy therorists have always worked.

 

[arthwollipot]

As I keep saying (and people keep ignoring) BOTH ENDS OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM ARE PANTS!!

You clearly don't believe that. You clearly believe that the Left are loony, reality-challenged; insane weirdos at best and dangerous ideologues at worst. You don't expend nearly the amount of vitriol you spend criticising the right as you do criticising the left. You're just not being honest with yourself about it.

All of the positions you espouse - the anti-DEI, anti-trans, anti-woke positions - they are Far-Right positions. Because the Left values equity and treating people with respect, which all three of these examples of positions you hold do not.

You're on the Far Right already, you just won't acknowledge it.

The "both ends of the political spectrum are pants" argument is a Right-wing position! And it's worse because you're acknowledging that the Right are awful but pointing out that the Left are also awful. That isn't the flex that you think it is.

 

[Trausti]

All of the positions you espouse - the anti-DEI, anti-trans, anti-woke positions - they are Far-Right positions.

If you belive that everyone should be treated equally regardless of their race or sex and that a person cannot change their sex, you're "far-right." Okay.

 

[arthwollipot]

If you belive that everyone should be treated equally regardless of their race or sex and that a person cannot change their sex, you're "far-right." Okay.

Ooh, almost caught me there with those two completely separate statements that you conflated into a single position.