Understanding homeopathy

[Rolfe]

It was also a shame that her healing powers allowed her not to recognise a cat with a terminal urinary obstruction for about 2 days.

Oh no! My first thought from the numbers was that the poor cat was just an end-stage renal case, which couldn't have been helped anyway (they do produce hyperkalaemia that severe when they're really terminal sometimes). But an obstruction! Something defintely treatable and curable with a high rate of success, and she messed around until it was too late!!!

I'm either going to cry or hit someone, I'm not sure which yet.

Rolfe.

 

[Chris Haynes]

I had a cat brought to me this morning. It was in a state of collapse. The lady who brought it in did not want to spend much money and told me she did "healing" and could I minimise my treatment so she could do follow-up my expensive medicine with her "healing". I said she could but I had to be happy that the welfare of the animal was not compromised. Sad to say he died as the nurse tried to draw a blood sample before anything else could be done.....

So is she going to blame her cat's death on the attempt to draw blood? Or does she believe you when you told it was urinary obstruction?

How could anyone let a cat suffer so much!!!

The first male cat I had was a huge part Persian gray tabby who could knock you over with his wonderful head bumps. He used to always get the blockage... and was usually fixed right up after a trip to the vets (even on Sundays). It was easy to tell when he got one, he would yowl pitiously and drip bloody urine on part of the floor we could see. He lived to the ripe old age of 14 years or so, and died after being bit by a rattlesnake (he liked catching snakes).

The last male cat we had lived to 19 years, and never had urinary blockage. The vet told me that a change in cat food by the manufacturers meant he now sees lots fewer cases.

 

[PixyMisa]

What about Indian/Asean/underdeveloped people?

Are they still increasing at higher rate inspite more health problems?

Does someone want to explain to Kumar where babies come from?

 

[Rolfe]

How could anyone let a cat suffer so much!!!

During the summer I had to PM a cat which had died in almost identical circumstances to BSM's case. The cat had been observed by a neighbour to be in some distress in the garden, but had delayed for an hour or two before contacting the owner as he knew that the owner was working nights and would be asleep. By the time the cat was presented he was moribund, and I think he expired as the vet was trying to get a vein to set up a drip.

I'm not really sure why the PM was necessary, but it may be that nobody had really got a chance to examine him before he died, and after he died they thought they would just let the lab get on with it. In fact it wasn't that obvious externally as there was a lot of urine free in the abdomen, leaked from the over-stretched but not yet ruptured bladder, and so it wasn't as easy a palpate job as you'd expect.

I was just about crying when I did the PM, as he was a lovely big cat, middle-aged and handsome. The vet told me that he'd had no history of any urinary problems in the past. Whether a couple of hours would have saved him I really don't know, but I do wish the neighbour had acted sooner. I still wonder how long he'd really been ill for - it does take time for that to get to that stage. But it was summer, and some cats don't come home so often at that time of year.

The idea that anyone could sit and watch a cat in that state and not call for help is simply revolting.

Rolfe.

PS. It's true about the cat food. There was a positive outbreak of this about 20 years ago, and it was traced to a problem in formulating certain dry cat foods. The evil crap-in-a-bag manufacturers promptly corrected the problem and the incidence went back down to its previous level.

 

[Mojo]

I had a cat brought to me this morning. It was in a state of collapse. The lady who brought it in did not want to spend much money and told me she did "healing" and could I minimise my treatment so she could do follow-up my expensive medicine with her "healing". I said she could but I had to be happy that the welfare of the animal was not compromised. Sad to say he died as the nurse tried to draw a blood sample before anything else could be done.

Rolfe will like these numbers: he had a K+ of 11.17mM and a creatinine of 1452uM. What I'd really wanted to say to her was, "Go on, if you're so effing smart, heal that."

It was also a shame that her healing powers allowed her not to recognise a cat with a terminal urinary obstruction for about 2 days.

So there you go, Murthy, another one in your mould. She'd have loved to have the case back when I'd done the hard work and she could then claim the credit for her "healing" during its convalescence. But first, just like you recommend, she turns up on the doorstep of a real physician to treat the life-threatening problem, just a day too late. Feckin' brilliant!

Seeing as the cat died in your surgery, did she try to blame you for its death?

Edited to add: Sorry, I didn't notice that the thread had gone onto another page.

 

[Barbrae]

How much detail do you want? I know Richard Edwards personally, and I have spoken to him (perhaps "listened to him" would be a better description!) on the phone about the incident. *

First of all, any detail you give is irrelevant to me. I don't know you and certainly don't trust you anymore than you would trust me. Secondly, I'd like to make it clear that I am not a fan of Wim's - and have no knowledge of those vet homeopaths he reveres.

* What makes you so sure any of the rest of them are any better?

Again, I know nothing of this person at all - so claiming he is one of my greatest heros is simply silly and I can't fathom why you would even say that - have you EVER Seen me even mention the fella? Now, you would like me to draw a conclusion that because one guy - who I know nothing about - is a fraud that all homeopaths are? COme on, what kind of logic is that? I know a lot of MD's that are frauds, what makes you think any are any better? Silly argument, no?

The point about this story is that it supports exactly all the points we have been making about showcasing the coincidental recoveries while quietly forgetting about the less positive cases, and the brainwashing of people into thinking that homoeopathy has made a difference when in reality there has been no change in the patient's condition. Oh, and the point about the obscene profit margins on the magic sugar pills was one I have also pointed out now and again.

Really, no comment at all?

Barb, I seriously don't understand your attitude. Richard said he came from a sceptical point of view. But he was open-minded enough to listen to the case presented by the homoeopaths, and apparently he believed them. This is what you are always urging us to do.

ACtually, I have NEVER urged any of you to have an open mind about homeopathy, not once.

But when Richard does it, he's a fool to be taken in?

Remember, Richard wasn't intending to become a practising homoeopath himself. The deal was that his practice bought the homoeopathic practice, and took on the three homoeopaths working there as employees so that they would go on working as before. No different from, say, buying a small avian practice and keeping on the bird expert as an employee.

Actually it is VERY different from buying a small avian practice to have someone else run. Unless of cours ethe vet is skeptical of birds. YOur analogy is faulty. It wasn't that Richard bought soemthing he wasn't knowledgable in, but rather he bought something he admits he didn't believed worked - admits he believed might have been a scam. Seems a little odd to me.



Richard now realises that he was lied to and made a fool of. He bitterly regrets the whole incident. But who is the villain there? The innocent who believed the plausible lies, or the liars? You ask us to be open-minded, but when someone behaves in just the way you want, you then sneer at him for being a gullible fool?

Maybe you missed it in my other post but I did say that if these people did lie to him then they are without a doubt the villians.

Rolfe.

 

[Kumar]

What about Indian/Asean/underdeveloped people[of underdeveloped countries]?

Does someone want to explain to Kumar where babies come from?

That may not be so important than as what type of babies come from?

We are discussing here genetically engineered food--whether good or bad. We are also thinking about 'foods grown organically'. We try first to control diabetes etc. by diet & excercises(probably a replacement to nature). Why, we intend to go to nature?

 

[PixyMisa]

That may not be so important than as what type of babies come from?

What?

 

[Kumar]

What?

Study evolution & natural selections.

 

[PixyMisa]

Study evolution & natural selections.

I have, extensively. The problem was, your question was gibberish.

 

[Kumar]

I have, extensively. The problem was, your question was gibberish.

No, preconvinced & precocieved ideas AND recent influences on you made & furthur making your understanding as gibberish. Try to come out from these chronic & acute influences if you want to give or exchange knowledges not just contradictions & fun.

Elementary to elementary/ fundamental forces & particles can be 'free, independent, unbounded, disassociated, kinetic, dot/point shaped so can move in all directions, smallest/shortest/simplest but still indefinite, omni-present, omn-ipotent & omni-scient, female type...so on. which should be the prime basis of evolution. Its bounded, combined, associated, potencial. wave shaped so movement in specific directions, enlarged/complex look, definite with specific qualities can be thought as progress towards evolution.

Just understand; how this prime free energy can stay, persist, bounded, associated, trapped or stored as potencial energy which should be the basis of evolution.

It is so easy to show 'how free energy/energy as potencial energy is present & can stay in any type? Can you show me, now?

 

[PixyMisa]

No, preconvinced & precocieved ideas AND recent influences on you made & furthur making your understanding as gibberish.

No.

Part of the problem is with your English, which sometimes renders your more complex sentences unintelligible. I try to work around that, but sometimes I can't.

But most of the problem is your complete ignorance of even the most basic scientific knowledge, and your persistent denial and distortion of everything we try to teach you.

Try to come out from these chronic & acute influences if you want to give or exchange knowledges not just contradictions & fun.

I am always open to exchanging knowledge. Let me know when you have some.

Elementary to elementary/ fundamental forces & particles can be 'free, independent, unbounded, disassociated, kinetic, dot/point shaped so can move in all directions, smallest/shortest/simplest but still indefinite, omni-present, omn-ipotent & omni-scient, female type...so on.

No.

Kumar, this is complete and utter nonsense.

which should be the prime basis of evolution.

No.

Your point on evolution is complete nonsense too.

I'm sorry, Kumar, you don't have the faintest idea what you are talking about, and you have shown that no matter what we tell you, you will simply distort it into a new theory supporting homeopathy.

Remember, Kumar, homeopathy does not work. We have tested it, and it does not work.

Its bounded, combined, associated, potencial. wave shaped so movement in specific directions,

No.

enlarged/complex look, definite with specific qualities can be thought as progress towards evolution.

No.

Just understand; how this prime free energy

No.

There is no such thing.

can stay, persist, bounded, associated, trapped or stored as potencial energy which should be the basis of evolution.

No.

It is so easy to show 'how free energy/energy as potencial energy is present & can stay in any type?

That question is badly garbled and I am tired of trying to guess what you want.

Can you show me, now?

Show you what?

 

[Kumar]

No.

Part of the problem is with your English, which sometimes renders your more complex sentences unintelligible. I try to work around that, but sometimes I can't.

But most of the problem is your complete ignorance of even the most basic scientific knowledge, and your persistent denial and distortion of everything we try to teach you.

I am always open to exchanging knowledge. Let me know when you have some.

No.

Kumar, this is complete and utter nonsense.

No.

Your point on evolution is complete nonsense too.

I'm sorry, Kumar, you don't have the faintest idea what you are talking about, and you have shown that no matter what we tell you, you will simply distort it into a new theory supporting homeopathy.

Remember, Kumar, homeopathy does not work. We have tested it, and it does not work.

No.

No.

No.

There is no such thing.

No.

That question is badly garbled and I am tired of trying to guess what you want.

Show you what?

All can be yes provided you take it bit dynamically, logically, differantly considering that few aspects & concepts may still be a miss or weakness of science & so 'not yet known. I accepted my weakness in languge & technicalities. But still something differant can be understood/followed.

Don't you know & can show 'how potencial energy is stored' & other basis of evoulation?

 

[PixyMisa]

All can be yes provided you take it bit dynamically, logically, differantly considering that few aspects & concepts may still be a miss or weakness of science & so 'not yet known.

No.

I accepted my weakness in languge & technicalities. But still something differant can be understood/followed.

Not without evidence.

Don't you know & can show 'how potencial energy is stored' & other basis of evoulation?

The storage of potential energy has almost - not quite, but almost - nothing to do with evolution.

You're completely on the wrong track again.

 

[Kumar]

No.

Not without evidence.

The storage of potential energy has almost - not quite, but almost - nothing to do with evolution.

You're completely on the wrong track again.

Energy is the basis of everything so unless energy concentrate, increase & persist at one point--how evolution can happen?

Let us try to understand how this concentration, increase & persistance of energy/prime energy can occur.

I just feel potencial energy is just an energy present in deviated/ differanciated/concentrated/associated form of prime/fundamental energy/ies & partcle/s.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Oh no! My first thought from the numbers was that the poor cat was just an end-stage renal case, which couldn't have been helped anyway (they do produce hyperkalaemia that severe when they're really terminal sometimes). But an obstruction! Something defintely treatable and curable with a high rate of success, and she messed around until it was too late!!!

I'm either going to cry or hit someone, I'm not sure which yet.

Rolfe.

To slightly redress the balance, I should point out that she had not actively "messed about" with it. It was simply that despite her "healing" powers she did not even recognise that the cat was in trouble. He was a yard cat and went for periods unobserved, but having seen many urinarily obstructed cats I find it hard to believe that he could have been blocked for the 2 days necessary to have such severe metabolic derangment without showing unmistakeable clinical signs. So, my point was not really that she had wasted time attempting to heal him by magic, but that she displayed the typical woo arrogance, which meant she wanted to be given the chance to "heal" him after I had rescued the situation when she lacked even the basic medical common sense to detect the fatal problem in the first place.

And in response to the other question, no she is not "blaming" us for his death, but I did get the nurse to run the lab tests free of charge so we could give a specific explanation of why he died so quickly after presentation.

 

[PixyMisa]

Energy is the basis of everything so unless energy concentrate, increase & persist at one point--how evolution can happen?

It can't.

So what?

Let us try to understand how this concentration increase & persistance of energy/prime energy can occur.

There is no such thing as "prime energy".

I just feel potencial energy is just an energy present in deviated/ differanciated/concentrated/associated form of prime/fundamental energy/ies & partcle/s.

Potential energy is stored energy.

Potential energy can be gravitational, chemical or mechanical.

If you lift an object, it has gravitational potential energy. Drop it and this energy is released.

If you use energy to create a less stable chemical compound from a more stable chemical compound, it has chemical potential energy. Trees take carbon dioxide from the air and energy from the sun and make wood. You can burn the wood and get the energy back.

If you strech a rubber band, you give it mechanical potential energy. Release the rubber band and you get the energy back.

I don't see what this has to do with evolution.

 

[Kumar]

It can't.

So what?

There is no such thing as "prime energy".

There is ought to be prime source/mother of everything. Do you want to say all four fundamental forces come into existance independantly & are prime sources of everything.

Potential energy is stored energy.

Potential energy can be gravitational, chemical or mechanical.

If you lift an object, it has gravitational potential energy. Drop it and this energy is released.

If you use energy to create a less stable chemical compound from a more stable chemical compound, it has chemical potential energy. Trees take carbon dioxide from the air and energy from the sun and make wood. You can burn the wood and get the energy back.

If you strech a rubber band, you give it mechanical potential energy. Release the rubber band and you get the energy back.

I don't see what this has to do with evolution.

That is ok, but you are telling me its types & theory but not showing its existance at quantum/ exact science levels.

Furthur evolution can mean differant concentration & differanciations of energy than its previous level(since, everything is made from energy & so consider total energy changes on evolution).

Can you tell how potential energy is stored on chemical bonds?

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

I don't see what this has to do with evolution.

Nor does Kumar!

 

[Kumar]

Nor does Kumar!

Changes on change in concentration & differanciation of total energy in any substance than its previous level can be basis of all 'evolutions'. Zero as individual may not have any PE, but can have PE if concentrated & associated with 1 as 10. So 10 is an evolution.